Two further reminders:
a) Keep partisan politics out of this as that is NOT a topic permitted in these forums. There's already been one in-thread warning about it, if there are further incidents, we will move beyond deleting individual posts.
b) Sarcasm doesn't work too well on internet forums and sarcastic comments about sexism/racism can easily be read as actual sexist/racist comments. Given the current atmosphere on this entire issue, be very, very careful about the way posts are written.
a) Keep partisan politics out of this as that is NOT a topic permitted in these forums. There's already been one in-thread warning about it, if there are further incidents, we will move beyond deleting individual posts.
b) Sarcasm doesn't work too well on internet forums and sarcastic comments about sexism/racism can easily be read as actual sexist/racist comments. Given the current atmosphere on this entire issue, be very, very careful about the way posts are written.
http://www.gamerheadlines.com/2014/09/gamergate-update-dev-support/
http://www.gamerheadlines.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/4HmikTH.jpg
An Xbox One developer shows his support for gamergate. Also later down the page there was this post to 4chan.
http://www.gamerheadlines.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/4HmikTH.jpg
An Xbox One developer shows his support for gamergate. Also later down the page there was this post to 4chan.
Last edited:
I'm curious about all these posts that keep getting removed. At any rate... The issue is not so much a political one as a certain culture of conformity that paints differing opinions not only as wrong, but as warranting ostracism. Calling something sexist, racist or homophobic immediately shuts down any consideration and adds an emotional element that ensures no further discussion can take place. When this works once, it becomes an easy go-to tactic and the people employing it even forget (if they ever learned) how to disagree with someone without jumping to their old standbys. I find it funny, for instance, that when I posted about the all-bisexual cast of DAII as being unrealistic, I was called a homophobe and basically blacklisted by a certain cadre on BSN, but now the developers are saying exactly the same things that I did.
And it's this imposition of conformity that I believe people are reacting to. The imperial press gets together and decides to proclaim that gamers are dead- and what, we're just supposed to agree and fall in line? Who do these people think they are? It reminds me of a video by a KGB operative who was tasked with introducing subversive elements into US culture during the Cold War. He talked about using the media, and pointed out that these are usually people with no specialized education or experience, and they're meant to dictate to the rest of us how to think?
And it's this imposition of conformity that I believe people are reacting to. The imperial press gets together and decides to proclaim that gamers are dead- and what, we're just supposed to agree and fall in line? Who do these people think they are? It reminds me of a video by a KGB operative who was tasked with introducing subversive elements into US culture during the Cold War. He talked about using the media, and pointed out that these are usually people with no specialized education or experience, and they're meant to dictate to the rest of us how to think?
Last edited:
I think that you're right, @veleda, but I also think that it's very much political, in the sense that the people who are trying to get everyone to conform to their opinion in gaming are using similar tactics as others outside the gaming circle who use them against certain political parties, and I don't think it's a coincidence. Not bringing up specific political parties, @Dragonbird, so please let this message stay.
All I'm trying to say, is that certain groups run the mainstream media, and we shouldn't be surprised to see certain opinions like ours being targeted by gaming media as "socially unaccepting". That is, ones against not necessarily feminism itself, but against the people championing it and what they are doing to get what they want. And also believing that these tactics, these topics in general, have no place in gaming anymore than it should anywhere else, such as music, movies, etc.
It's indeed political, even if the root of the problem itself isn't, but the tactics themselves. Which again, gets its origins from politically biased media outside of the gaming circles.
All I'm trying to say, is that certain groups run the mainstream media, and we shouldn't be surprised to see certain opinions like ours being targeted by gaming media as "socially unaccepting". That is, ones against not necessarily feminism itself, but against the people championing it and what they are doing to get what they want. And also believing that these tactics, these topics in general, have no place in gaming anymore than it should anywhere else, such as music, movies, etc.
It's indeed political, even if the root of the problem itself isn't, but the tactics themselves. Which again, gets its origins from politically biased media outside of the gaming circles.
Feminists and SJWs will openly claim that anyone who does is not one of them is a sexist, misogynistic, homophobic, racist, asshole. That's not me claiming it, check twitter feeds or even talk with some of these people yourself, they will admit it readily.
It seems gamers AND developers have grown tired of being made to be the devil himself, it seems they're tired of being accused of things that are patently untrue and they've grown tired of bullshit claims that "Sexual violence in video games sanitizes violence against women in real life." When studies about gun violence in video games have accurately shown that video game violence has nothing to do with real life gun violence but apparently violence against women is so different and it does happen even though there is no real evidence to support such claims.
There's a lot I have to say about the idea of using the PR agencies to strike at journalists, it sort of sickens me to consider using such tactics against the journalists/SJWs but at the end of day game developers and publishers can be reasoned with, they CAN be made to change if there is pressure to do so: Look at Bioware acknowledging even in a small way that DA2 was a rushed failure of a game and spending a lot more time on DA3. Look at Call of Duty increasing development time from 2 years to 3 years after gamers gave them hell for it.
At the end of the day I'll quote Churchill: "If Hitler invaded Hell I'd ally the Devil".
Gender Warriors/Journalists have invaded hell, now it's time to call EA.
It seems gamers AND developers have grown tired of being made to be the devil himself, it seems they're tired of being accused of things that are patently untrue and they've grown tired of bullshit claims that "Sexual violence in video games sanitizes violence against women in real life." When studies about gun violence in video games have accurately shown that video game violence has nothing to do with real life gun violence but apparently violence against women is so different and it does happen even though there is no real evidence to support such claims.
There's a lot I have to say about the idea of using the PR agencies to strike at journalists, it sort of sickens me to consider using such tactics against the journalists/SJWs but at the end of day game developers and publishers can be reasoned with, they CAN be made to change if there is pressure to do so: Look at Bioware acknowledging even in a small way that DA2 was a rushed failure of a game and spending a lot more time on DA3. Look at Call of Duty increasing development time from 2 years to 3 years after gamers gave them hell for it.
At the end of the day I'll quote Churchill: "If Hitler invaded Hell I'd ally the Devil".
Gender Warriors/Journalists have invaded hell, now it's time to call EA.
Last edited:
Indeed. And if you belong to a certain group, whether it's racial or gender based, people expect you to be this or that politically and socially, and it's very very off putting. Nobody owns me.
That's why people were using #Notyourshield in the first place. To show not everyone that's female or not white hates Gamergate, or agrees with feminists like Anita Sarkeesian about misogyny in the gaming industry.
That's why people were using #Notyourshield in the first place. To show not everyone that's female or not white hates Gamergate, or agrees with feminists like Anita Sarkeesian about misogyny in the gaming industry.
Total Biscuit shouldn't be allowed to have so much common sense. Seriously, that guy is one the most informed and balanced people to listen to. And he's spot on about the lack of diversity being the result of a lazy rut instead of systemic bigotry. There is a problem there, I totally see that. Many game devs have been working with tired formulas for years now and that's why it's refreshing when they occasionally shake things up. I think it's time for gamers to put their heads together and find productive ways to inject more diversity in the industry. I don't see how anyone can be opposed to that. As soon as the shit storm dies down, that is.
The problem is that people are focused on creating diversity when the focus instead should be simply creating good content, and promoting those who deserve it. You do that, and listen to new and interesting ideas, and diversity is inevitable, because different cultures and genders have different ideas due to different perspectives. Like you said, laziness is the main issue, not bigotry.
I'd be careful on how you utilize this quote in debates, since they'd try and say you're admitting your side is as bad as Lucifer.
But I like it a lot though in relation to this topic
I'll remember that one.Yes that's exactly what I mean. I don't mean that we should throw women out of gaming but that they shouldn't be treated in any way special.
Equality is about equality treatment it is NOT about affirmative action.
Equality is about equality treatment it is NOT about affirmative action.
I always say that these things have to be tackled on the basis of aesthetics, taste, quality- making games that have high artistic and literary value in addition to solid gameplay- rather than on arbitrary tick-the-box "representation." I really don't want female characters just for the sake of having female characters. I'd much rather play a well written, well designed male character.
And in this respect gamers are already self-policing, we don't need non-gamers like Anita Sarkeesian to patrol the hallways. My favorite male game reviewers already call out games if they have lazy or offensive elements, and they aren't asking anyone to proclaim them feminist heroes for doing so. Examples being Angry Joe's review of that spectacularly bad motorcycle game, and Razorfist's "Thanks for the Mammaries" look at Mass Effect's butt and boob close-ups.
And in this respect gamers are already self-policing, we don't need non-gamers like Anita Sarkeesian to patrol the hallways. My favorite male game reviewers already call out games if they have lazy or offensive elements, and they aren't asking anyone to proclaim them feminist heroes for doing so. Examples being Angry Joe's review of that spectacularly bad motorcycle game, and Razorfist's "Thanks for the Mammaries" look at Mass Effect's butt and boob close-ups.
It's giving an example as to why gaming journalism is unfit. To bring up what Veleda said again, it's the pattern of conformism and thinking Gamers should conform to what these journalists are saying. Both when it comes to games themselves, or the demographics of the characters in them and the people that make them.
See what I mean? It's just another example of how they want to control gamer opinion through gamer journalism, and brings back the point that it's corrupt.
Oh believe me, I do. But I'm always accused of being a "kneckbeard" which I had to look up, and is code for a white nerdy male with unkempt facial hair, and who hate women and are racist, etc.
I'm a biracial male, but in America, they'd just consider me black despite the skin color. My facial hair for the most part is neat, and I always shave off the neck portion, lol, not that this matters or is relevant, and I despite my race have a lot of right wing viewpoints, though I also often lean left on certain topics too. Not getting into politics again specifically, just showing that when it comes even to gaming, people accuse you of being this or that when the topic doesn't necessarily have anything to do with politics. Probably exactly for the reason Veleda gave. It shuts conversation down, and makes it easier for people to ignore what I say, and for others to do so as well.
That's another issue with all this. Gaming Journalism is politicized, and I think that is the source of its corruption when it comes to the biased viewpoints they give in relation to all this Anita stuff. Like I said before, certain groups control the media, at least in America, and that's why this SJW culture has affected Gaming Journalism, as well as the tact of making people conform to what they say. That's not even opinion. Anyone in America can turn on the tv and see whose viewpoints are getting around more and whose are shunned as bigotry. And it's no coincidence we see the same in our beloved gaming circles.
All i`m saying is that to change gaming journalism from what it is now then people have to start somewhere . Write the publishers of online magazines either as a single entity or form a group and start petitioning for changes . Otherwise it`s going to stay exactly where it is now . Will it change overnight ...no but in time I think it just might .
That could work maybe, though in my honest opinion, I don't think they're interested in what we have to say. Whether it's what we think about them copy and pasting review information on games, giving certain games high reviews and not being honest about the games because of sponsorship or backlash fear, or this other anita stuff.
Personally, my favored tactic is to do what they were already showing anger and frustration to, which is people, gaming companies and gamers alike sticking to the youtube personalities who are honest and exempt from such stresses as relying on sponsorships for support or getting early access to games. People like Angry Joe, who is by far my favorite reviewer of games. Not so much movies, but they're still entertaining regardless of my differing opinions.
The only thing that anyone in this world truly understands is $$$. That's how you force an industry that has its roots in capitalism to adapt and change.
edit: Though you have a point, in that most people don't and won't try to explain their grievances with the journalist groups calmly and with levelheaded criticism. They hate us and we hate them, and that does feed the problem. It makes a rift.
Last edited:
The time for civil discussion is over. These people make us out to be rats, insult us at every turn and now when their bullying no longer works THEY want us to sit down and talk on their terms? Fuck em.
That's the attitude on gamergate. There's also this: http://www.goodgamers.us/
That's the attitude on gamergate. There's also this: http://www.goodgamers.us/
Last edited: