Gameplay - depth vs complexity vs fun

[Suhiira]

By the way, I've still no idea whether "Copper" means the metal or the slang word for cop.

Perhaps a reference as to how much your dreams are worth ... not much.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Perhaps a reference as to how much your dreams are worth ... not much.

Could well be.

 

[NukeTheMoon]

A well crafted game is one were you can learn the complexity of the game (and it's systems) as you play, enabling you to play on a harder difficulty in an additional play-through.
The game need to be able to be "attack button spammed" on the easiest difficulty, but also have in-depth complex systems to be taken advantage of in harder difficulty settings.

RPG's that do not do this, usually fail. Particularly the old D&D inspired isometric RPGs.
You have to draw the player in, before your bash them over the head with your in-depth mechanics.
CDPR probably realizes this, as evidenced in the heavy amount of hand-holding that goes on in the first couple of hours of TW3.

 

[Calistarius]

RPG's that do not do this, usually fail. Particularly the old D&D inspired isometric RPGs.
You have to draw the player in, before your bash them over the head with your in-depth mechanics.
CDPR probably realizes this, as evidenced in the heavy amount of hand-holding that goes on in the first couple of hours of TW3.

I really would not say that those games failed... most of those are still considered to be some of the best game ever created after all. And sure, they may not have sold as much as other types of games (Diablo did outsell Baldur's Gate as far as I remember), but sales numbers alone does not necessarily mean that a game is good or bad (it can be an indicator sure, but it is not always the entite truth to the matter)... for the most part it usually only means that some people prefer certain types of games, and other people prefer other types of games. And as such one person from one of the sides can not (or rather probably should not) really be the one who decides if the game on the other side (games which they do not like them selves) was a failure or not.

If your talking about purelly financially, then yeah, sure... then both sides can have a say in the matter, since that is usually just based on pure facts, and financially it could mean that some games really did fail.

But if your speaking about essentually anything else, things which is compleatly based on what each person like or do not like, based on pure opinion... then the only people really that you should turn to too see if a game was a failure or not, is to the people who actually like that particular style of game. My brother for example says that turnbased combat is the worst thing ever invented, and games that uses turnbased combat should be wiped of the face of the earth... but that does not actually mean that he's right... nor does it mean that I am in any way shape or form going to in any way listen to him, or at all value his opinion, when it comes to whether or not a turnbased game is good or not, if it failed or not, etc.

 

[Suhiira]

Therein lays the problem.
No single game can appeal to everyone, and those that try to generally fail.
Too bad some game publishers can't seem to figure that out.

CDPR seems to know it's target audience and really doesn't seem to care that some people don't like the kinds of games they make.
Damn them poles are smart!

 

[NukeTheMoon]

I really would not say that those games failed... most of those are still considered to be some of the best game ever created after all. And sure, they may not have sold as much as other types of games (Diablo did outsell Baldur's Gate as far as I remember), but sales numbers alone does not necessarily mean that a game is good or bad

I consider a game to a vision created by a group of people.
If that vision is obscured by bad explanation or teaching of game-play mechanics, then that vision has been failed, to a certain degree.
A book that cannot be read might as well be burned.

Yet, then how is a game supposed to have depth?
Simply, by being easily accessible on lower difficulties where only basic understanding of the mechanics are required.
Then requiring understanding the inner mechanics on harder difficulties.

This concept is nothing new to gaming.
It's just RPG's can be particularly bad at demonstrating mechanics so they can be learned. Perhaps partially this is because so many of the designers of RPGs have played pen-and-paper RPGs, and older RPG's like Baldur's Gate, so their "standards" for accessibility are lower than that average consumer or even average gamer.

Creating a game that is accessible is not a matter of "dumbing down" the game. Its is a matter of correctly demonstrating game mechanics so they can be learned. That requires coordinated planning. It is an aspect of good game design. To not do so, is simply bad game design.

If a game is commercially successful or not, is usually a reflection of good game design or bad game design.
I hate to say it myself, because I have to admit there are some games that badly designed or have problem, but they appeal to me anyway.
Sometimes, the appeal of badly designed game can be the none-game elements. Graphics. Story. Quake was a hollow shell compared to Doom 2, but it looked awesome.

It is an infallible truth that game genres have their fans. I am a fan of both RPG and FPS in general.
I can say pretty definitively that games made in either of the genres are going to get my money, if they are excellent.
If a game, like an RPG, is acclaimed by the people who play it, but not commercially successful, at some point you have to ask "Where is the game at fault for it's limited appeal, despite it's strengths?"
It is unusual for a game to fail for reasons other than the game itself. Even if we ourselves like it.

 

[SigilFey]

Yet, then how is a game supposed to have depth?

I agree!

I view it like chocolate. (I'm not joking; I'm being serious. [I'm not being cirious, I'm being s-e-r-i-o-u-s.]) Chocolate by itself is a unique, satisfying flavor. But what can you do with it? Well, ever had salted chocolate? Divine. Milk chocolate vs. white chocolate vs. dark chococlate...all with their own personalities...all work for different people. Ever mixed chocolate with chili? Holy @#$%! Ever mixed bacon into the chocolate? Holy, every-living @#$%! You can bake it, drink it, eat it cold, have it at room temperature... You can even make melting chocolate which starts solid but will turn to liquid before you can swallow it. It's great by itself, with nuts, over berries, on bread...fondant, mousse, parfait, souffle...mix it with red wine / liquor and bottle it...

A deep game is like chocolate. While immediately recognizable and satisfying, it always seems that there's something "new" to experience, discover, or do with it. (My opinion of "deep" games are: XCOM, Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic, Total War, Dark Souls, Minecraft, Skyrim, Kingdoms of Amalur...) Other games might be statistically better, overall. For example, I looove my Relic games (Homeworld, Dawn of War, Company of Heroes), but they're very formulaic. Doesn't make them bad -- just doesn't make them chocolate.

This concept is nothing new to gaming.

The modern gaming market sure has learned to play it "safe". Games back in the '80s and '90s were often far deeper, though you can't tell by their graphics. While hard as a comparison, we can look at Ultima IV (1985)...or even better, Ultima VII (1992). These games were decades ahead of their time. We can look at what the original Elite (1984) actually did with vector-based graphics. We can check out what the original Master of Magic (1994) and Master of Orion 1 and 2 (1993-6) accomplished. Darklands (1992) was a mess of bugs, but it was such an awesome concept and was very enjoyable once they got it working (...like 15 years later...)

That's why I like CDPR's approach. They're going to use "what works" where they can -- but they're not going to sacrifice their vision to ensure a "wider market". They'll do things differently, or even (*gasp*) try new things (*nervous tittering*) to ensure they deliver on their games' strengths. There are obvious shortcomings (I purely hated TW2's combat), but I still felt pulled into the game itself.

If a game is commercially successful or not, is usually a reflection of good game design or bad game design.

And I'll end on this "amen". Kingdoms of Amalur is one of my all-time favorite games, but I find that even players I know would wind up in love with it simply can't get over the initial impact of its flaws. It's so sad that the desire to cut corners (in Amalur's case, the a.] horrendously flat voice-acting and stilted, expository dialogue, b.] woefully unrealized and poorly delivered lore, and c.] functional but painfully restrictive camera for purposes of exploration) all worked to disintegrate the experience of one of the BEST Action/RPGs ever made. And it has THE BEST, #1, "brawler" combat system of any game I have ever played.

Oh...I wonder what would have happened if the devs at Big Huge Games had been given the freedom and resources to fully realize their vision.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

If a game is commercially successful or not, is usually a reflection of good game design or bad game design.

Not always. Marketing and brand recognition (franchise/developer/both) play a much larger role today than they did before and sometimes they, or one of them, trumps "good design". Bethesda is living proof of this with their loose like throwing a french bread in a football stadium design.

 

[Lisbeth_Salander]

Cyberpunk 2077 will be the hardest game to be made in the whole gaming industry

I'm 100% sure that Cyberpunk 2077 will probably be the hardest game to be made in the whole gaming industry, because of the following:

• It has a specific hardcore demographic that needs to be pleased.
• By being a RPG, it will need lots of levels of details.
• It is based on a pen and paper game with a vast of lore, so they'll need to follow it 100% (even though it is in the future).
• It will also have multiplayer, making it directly compete with other sandbox muiltiplayer games.
• By being a RPG it will compete with the big guys like Bethesda and Bioware.
• Part of the demographic has played Witcher 3, a mature game, thus it needs a mature storyline.
• The world will probably be the most detailed game in the industry because of its futuristic aspects, considering that many other sandbox games are in either apocalyptic, medieval or modern scenarios (ones that usually have vast empty spaces or that are easily duplicated during the creative process).
• The cyberpunk genre has never been explored by AAA developers at this scale, thus making the marketing campaign even more important to get the idea to sell.
• By having this much level of detail, the graphics optimization in all platforms must be greatly made while still looking beautiful.
• The levels of hype are very high.
• It will directly compete with big tittles like GTA , Fallout, Mass Effect...
• CDPR changed from making swords to creating guns.
• The game will have different gameplay aspects from anything they've ever done.
• By having a considerable amount of "classes", they will have to work to implement a lot of different gameplay mechanics for each one of them.
• And if you're wondering why it will be so hard, then tell me what other games will have this level of details. The answer is none.
• And lastly, they will probably try to conquer new demographics in an area that was never been explored in the market, and they have not very experience with.

It may bomb. But if it works it may break new grounds for CDPR, and I'm talking about doubling the company's market value.

Few are the companies who aim high and get what they want. They're making things different and innovation is what gets the public's eye.

CDPR has already aimed high, and they got what they wanted. They're either insane, very competent professionals or they work with Wolf of Wall Street's levels of cocaine parties:









Credit goes to @metalmaniac21 for making me reply to him and to @NukeTheMoon for inspiring me to turn the original post into a thread.

 

[EvilWolf]

It has a specific hardcore demographic that needs to be pleased.

Arguably this won't be that difficult to do, considering this hardcore demographic doesn't really have anything fresh to turn to in order to get their cyberpunk fix.

By being a RPG, it will need lots of levels of details.

CDPR is very good at doing this, so again; this won't be very hard.

It is based on a pen and paper game with a vast of lore, so they'll need to follow it 100% (even though it is in the future).

This will be easy for CDPR to accomplish considering they have the original pen and paper game's creator guiding them all the way.

It will also have multiplayer, making it directly compete with other sandbox muiltiplayer games.

There aren't that many sandbox multiplayer games of this caliber. If anything I would argue that Cyberpunk 2077 may kill off the majority of competing sandbox multiplayer games, I'm looking at you GTA:O. There certainly are very few, read as: one, that I can think of, Anarchy Online, which are of this specific genre. Cyberpunk 2077 will be THE cyberpunk sandbox multiplayer game.

By being a RPG it will compete with the big guys like Bethesda and Bioware.

Again, not that big of a deal since the latter only really has modding going for it, and the former has gone down hill fast recently. Not much real competition. Again, the point needs to be made, neither of these companies are providing a true cyberpunk experience.

Part of the demographic has played Witcher 3, a mature game, thus it needs a mature storyline.

I can 100% guarantee that this won't be an issue for CDPR at all.

The world will probably be the most detailed game in the industry because of its futuristic aspects, considering that many other sandbox games are in either apocalyptic, medieval or modern scenarios (ones that usually have vast empty spaces or that are easily duplicated during the creative process). The cyberpunk genre has never been explored by AAA developers at this scale, thus making the marketing campaign even more important to get the idea to sell. [...] The levels of hype are very high.

I'm inclined to agree that this will definitely be a huge endeavor for CDPR, but I have faith that they will deliver.

By having this much level of detail, the graphics optimization in all platforms must be greatly made while still looking beautiful.

I sincerely hope CDPR does the right thing and focuses primarily on the PC version and works from there on the console versions. It's, truly, the only way to get the best out of all platforms.

It will directly compete with big tittles like GTA , Fallout, Mass Effect...

I don't think this is an issue as Mass Effect and Fallout aren't really in the same caliber as GTA and Cyberpunk 2077. Cyberpunk 2077 has the benefit of the fact that GTA is aged, and gamers are most likely looking for a new fix. Cyberpunk 2077 may very well pick up GTA's fanbase while at the same time appealing to cyberpunk fans who have been waiting for something like Cyberpunk 2077.

CDPR changed from making swords to creating guns.

I would posit that bows and guns aren't "that" different in games. Other than ballistics ("bullet" speed, trajectory, and damage). I'm sure that CDPR will be able to pull it off soundly.

The game will have different gameplay aspects from anything they've ever done.

Relatively, I don't think this is that much of an issue for CDPR.

By having a considerable amount of "classes", they will have to work to implement a lot of different gameplay mechanics for each one of them.

CDPR can take examples from Troika (Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines) and other such great developers who have dealt with this dilemma in the past.

And if you're wondering why it will be so hard, then tell me what other games will have this level of details. The answer is none.

While you are correct, I would posit that in the past a lot of games came close (Bloodlines, the original Deus Ex, GTA, etc). I have faith that with the current technology and their experience developing great games CDPR can easily meet these expectations.

And lastly, they will probably try to conquer new demographics in an area that was never been explored in the market, and they have not very experience with.

I agree with you here, but we'll have to see what the future holds.

In the end I doubt, very seriously, that the game will bomb. If the game is anything even remotely like it has been hinted at being then I could see it easily stealing the show from other triple A titles which have held the majority of the limelight as of late.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

"Hardcore" demographics are often ignored in the RPG market. They get thrown a bone to keep them aboard for a while longer for support, but it is the "beggars can't be choosers" part of the audience. So yeah, that's not really a hardship in developement unless they actually intend to cater to that group.

Sounds bitter, but that's pretty much how it has gone outside the indies (and prolly MMO's) for quite some years.

 

[EvilWolf]

"Hardcore" demographics are often ignored in the RPG market. They get thrown a bone to keep them aboard for a while longer for support, but it is the "beggars can't be choosers" part of the audience. So yeah, that's not really a hardship in developement unless they actually intend to cater to that group.

Sounds bitter, but that's pretty much how it has gone outside the indies (and prolly MMO's) for quite some years.

But, I would argue, that stigma doesn't really apply, as much, here since Mike Pondsmith himself is working on the game with CDPR. Surely the end-result won't veer too far from the product the "hardcore" fans want, or at least one that they'll be, relatively, satisfied with.

 

[Eltyris]

No real concerns when it comes to world, ambiance, storytelling, art and "feel of cyberpunk"...no doubt, they will break new records here.

Gameplay, rpg and systems designs are a different matter.

Over the last ten CDPR has had too many problems with designing gameplay for only one playstyle( across the board, from coherent mechanics, technical execution to overall balancing and polish): now, they will have to deal with more than a dozen.
And all systems, from loot, crafting, progression, upgrade/customization, will need to be far less bloated, convoluted and allow easier comprehension.
On top of this, they're going in green when it comes to multiplayer, stealth, crpg mechanics, driving, sandbox, etc...the list goes on.

I'm worried they're moving too fast here. Designing coherent systems of this complexity will be a massive undertaking for studio with little experience and acclaim in gameplay design, whose own motto is "Story first, gameplay second".

My ( personal) advice: coordinate your work better and hire more experienced/qualified designers on this... particularly when it comes to rpg, controls and targetting systems.

I'd bet my left nut that on how much they realize this, we'll see CDPR either skyrocket high, or this could be Polish version of Icarus in the making.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

But, I would argue, that stigma doesn't really apply, as much, here since Mike Pondsmith himself is working on the game with CDPR. Surely the end-result won't veer too far from the product the "hardcore" fans want, or at least one that they'll be, relatively, satisfied with.

There is that, but he seems to be more about style and feel than mechanics (or so it would seem to me thus far). There is "hope", but I'll wait for something more concrete than knowledge of his participation.

No real concerns when it comes to world, ambiance, storytelling, art and "feel of cyberpunk"...no doubt, they will break new records here.

Gameplay, rpg and systems designs are a different matter.

Indeed. The don't have a particularly good trackrecord on character and RPG systems in general. Now they have readymade both, but how will they translate them to what'll no doubt be an action oriented gameplay rather than pnp-like.

 

[Guest 4149880]

I don't think CDPR has any real competition in the game industry other then itself at this point with Cyberpunk 2077. Meaning, if this game is as big as they're aiming for, its up to CDPR to go even bigger after CP2077. And there isn't any other game in this genre being made on this scale so what's it competing against?

If Gta is its only competitor then I'm sorry to say to the guys at Rockstar, they're going to get crushed. But in reality, Cyberpunk and Gta aren't anything alike in Genre and attract different crowds.

As far as Bioware and Bethesda, I think they've rested on their laurels for to long they probably don't think they can be outmatched in this day in gaming but I think its about to happen. And Bioware doesn't seem to know what they want anymore and Mass Effect is surely dead at this point. Bethesda seems to be stuck in their old ways of game development sticking to Elder Scrolls and Fallout but its going to be their wasteland if they don't start to innovate and bring new ideas to the table...

And with as big as the Cyberpunk genre is, its hard to say where CDPR will focus their attention when its comes to 2077. The sheer magnitude of scale they seem to be aiming for is hard even to imagine. The variety of possibilities.

 

[Lisbeth_Salander]

EvilWolf You have considered those issues individually, while some of them are not a big problem when observed separatelly, the difficulties I mentioned have a huge impact when looked from above, those little problems will become huge ones when combined.

I'm not defending that CP2077 will bomb, I'm telling that CDPR will have to completely innovate the gaming industry, by doing this, CP2077 will steal the attention of any other rival tittle. If CP2077 improves the major sucessful elements from Fallout, Skyrim, GTA, Mass Effect and Dragon Age, then CDPR can compete with Bethesda, Rockstar and Bioware.

Anyone can say that Witcher 3 was a great game, thus CDPR doens't need to care about competition, if you say that then you're objectively wrong, in the words of Marcin Iwinski "Witcher 3 has won awards, but it wans't in the 2015's top 10 most sold games, and we're aiming to do that with CP2077." Competition is about money too.

Arguably this won't be that difficult to do, considering this hardcore demographic doesn't really have anything fresh to turn to in order to get their cyberpunk fix.

If CP2077 is just another shooter, then the hardcore CP2020 crowd won't care about the game. But we're both talking about "ifs" without considering the evidences:

But, I would argue, that stigma doesn't really apply, as much, here since Mike Pondsmith himself is working on the game with CDPR. Surely the end-result won't veer too far from the product the "hardcore" fans want, or at least one that they'll be, relatively, satisfied with.

Have you seen what Mike just said in his last interview? He said that since the game has started full development he has gone only 6 times to poland. The only true confirmation that Mike was fully working in the game was perhaps during its pre production years 2012-2014. Was that enough to make the game a true hardcore rpg?

I don't think this is an issue as Mass Effect and Fallout aren't really in the same caliber as GTA and Cyberpunk 2077. Cyberpunk 2077 has the benefit of the fact that GTA is aged, and gamers are most likely looking for a new fix. Cyberpunk 2077 may very well pick up GTA's fanbase while at the same time appealing to cyberpunk fans who have been waiting for something like Cyberpunk 2077.

Taking GTA's demographic may be great.

But there'll be a problem if the rival gaming developers release their games close to CP2077's release.

Which one is more likely to do so?

>Bethesda launched Fallout 4 in 2015, when they usually take 4 years to make their game (Skyrim was released in 2011) so 2019 is a likely year.

>GTA V was released in 2013 when Rockstar Games take also 5 years to make their tittles (GTA 4 released in 2009) but considering thei're focusing on red dead redemption, this one may take a little more time while still being dangerous.

>Bioware has 2 massive RPGs franchises, Dragon Age and Mass Effect, and because both are developed by different studios the time required is less, thus they can release each with a time period of 2 to 3 years. Dragon Age Inquisition (2014), Mass Effect Andromeda (2017).

I would posit that bows and guns aren't "that" different in games. Other than ballistics ("bullet" speed, trajectory, and damage). I'm sure that CDPR will be able to pull it off soundly.

The game will have different gameplay aspects from anything they've ever done. Relatively, I don't think this is that much of an issue for CDPR.

Witcher 3 had bows, Geralt had one, some enemies too.. but was the game really that focused on them? Perhaps it won't be that difficult to have guns, but it might also not be that easy.

How many new elements are talking about again? Flying cars, different types of implants (each with new gameplay aspects), guns, cars with wheels probably, each class with have their own abilities during combat (hacking, spawning enemies, bots), we may also have mechs...

 

[EvilWolf]

Taking GTA's demographic may be great. But there'll be a problem if the rival gaming developers release their games close to CP2077's release. Which one is more likely to do so? >Bethesda launched Fallout 4 in 2015, when they usually take 4 years to make their game (Skyrim was released in 2011) so 2019 is a likely year. >GTA V was released in 2013 when Rockstar Games take also 5 years to make their tittles (GTA 4 released in 2009) but considering thei're focusing on red dead redemption, this one may take a little more time while still being dangerous. >Bioware has 2 massive RPGs franchises, Dragon Age and Mass Effect, and because both are developed by different studios the time required is less, thus they can release each with a time period of 2 to 3 years. Dragon Age Inquisition (2014), Mass Effect Andromeda (2017).

There is no perceivably, realistic way GTA VI will be released in the same time frame as Cyberpunk 2077, as you say they're working on RDR which, arguably won't take the same audience.

Bethesda isn't going to do anything in that timeframe either, they're too busy with "VR" and "ESO".

BioWare isn't going to risk butchering any of their titles further within the next few years.

 

[LegateLaniusThe2nd]

No real concerns when it comes to world, ambiance, storytelling, art and "feel of cyberpunk"...no doubt, they will break new records here.

Gameplay, rpg and systems designs are a different matter.

Over the last ten CDPR has had too many problems with designing gameplay for only one playstyle( across the board, from coherent mechanics, technical execution to overall balancing and polish): now, they will have to deal with more than a dozen.
And all systems, from loot, crafting, progression, upgrade/customization, will need to be far less bloated, convoluted and allow easier comprehension.
On top of this, they're going in green when it comes to multiplayer, stealth, crpg mechanics, driving, sandbox, etc...the list goes on.

I'm worried they're moving too fast here. Designing coherent systems of this complexity will be a massive undertaking for studio with little experience and acclaim in gameplay design, whose own motto is "Story first, gameplay second".

I'd bet my left nut that on how much they realize this, we'll see CDPR either skyrocket high, or this could be Polish version of Icarus in the making.

CDPR is hiring a lot of new people(depends on the quality of these new people) but yea they've yet to make a good "video game" imo or a better wording would be a good action rpg. A good video game is one the plays good. Some of the best and most influential games in history had little to no story. That doesn't mean there isn't a place for good story driven games however video games need the interaction part to be good considered a good video game imo. It also depends on the genre the developer is making. I think CDPR is honestly in the wrong genre of games. As you said if they think story should come first before gameplay thats a completely wrong mindset to do for making a fuckin action rpg. They're skills are clearly more suited to make a Telltale style of game rather than an action adventure or action rpg.

My ( personal) advice: coordinate your work better and hire more experienced/qualified designers on this... particularly when it comes to rpg, controls and targetting systems.

Lets hope they hire experienced skilled people for Cyberpunk and don't let the Witcher team work on it because soo far they're utter crap at designing gameplay.

 

[Sardukhar]

They're skills are clearly more suited to make a Telltale style of game rather than an action adventure or action rpg.

Nah. They not only have awards, but the series itself has sold 25 million copies. That's about twice as many as an action-heavy game like Dark Souls, series of which has sold about 13 million as of 2016. So in terms of both critical and financial success, in the action RPG genre, CDPR obviously knows what they are doing.

Just because you don't like how they do gameplay doesn't mean their millions of fans, who bought the games and the expansions, agree.

Games that focus heavily on gameplay over story aren't RPGs at all, really. And CDPR makes RPGs. Very popular and well-received RPGs.

Much prefer Witcher 3 gameplay design to some esoteric twitch-based gameplay plan. Ugh.

 

[yyb0568]

Nah. They not only have awards, but the series itself has sold 25 million copies. That's about twice as many as an action-heavy game like Dark Souls, series of which has sold about 13 million as of 2016. So in terms of both critical and financial success, in the action RPG genre, CDPR obviously knows what they are doing.
Just because you don't like how they do gameplay doesn't mean their millions of fans, who bought the games and the expansions, agree.
Games that focus heavily on gameplay over story aren't RPGs at all, really. And CDPR makes RPGs. Very popular and well-received RPGs.
Much prefer Witcher 3 gameplay design to some esoteric twitch-based gameplay plan. Ugh.

Games that focus heavily on gameplay over story aren't RPGs at all ? Oh Really, look at the The Elder Scrolls or Fallout I don't think it has any good story However they are RPG no doubt, and it sales much more than The Witcher twice triple ...
Any way change is Happening
Mateusz Kanik Game Director of cyberpunk -> Design Director -> Principal Designer

Kyle Rowley lead gameplay design -> Associate Design Director