GEAR and Crafting: Clothing, Armor, and doohickeys...

[Radbane]

On no, no color coded RNG loot please. That's for those fantasy action cRPG's. It does not fit a modern setting at all. A certain object in basic unmodded configuration should have the same stats, always. Only mods should affect the stats, and two of the same object, each with the same mod should now again have the same stats.

Enemies should have loot based on their worn equipment. I do not want to kill 10 machinegun weilding thugs just to find a tacticool snub-nose revolver of doom. I guess what I'm saying is that I want a loot system based on realism.

 

[HellKnightX88]

I want a mix of randomized and static loot. I don't like fully static loot because it creates this weird min-max loot sequence on subsequent playthroughs where you're goint from point A to point B to meta-game your way to better loot instead of finding it naturally. But full random obviously doesn't work either, unique items should be unique, not randomly generated with different names.

Don't mind color coded loot rarity like you'd see in things like Diablo with it's many many items but I wouldn't mind a system similar to Deus Ex.

What I really wish for is better loot progression. TW3 didn't exactly do a stellar job with this with you getting stuff that was unusable due to level restrictions or stuff that was severly underleveled/weaker than what you already had. Also Witcher sets blew everything else out of the water so you'd be actively gimping yourself if you didn't use them.

Hopefully the street cred system will be a good solution to this.

 

[GW84]

I think randomized loot is ok for 'standard' containers or enemies. Too much of a hassle to give all of them unique drops and simply getting your 40th standard crappy pistol for shooting down a gangmember gets old real quick.

I do prefer for every unique weapon to be a unique drop or having a fixed location. Then the game makes you work for your reward (if you want to minmax by getting Brutal McKillface's jacket early, be my guest. Your choice and this is an RPG), you're not dependent on the RNG for getting the stuff you want for your char and the developers have some control on the difficulty curve by making sure you don't get the cool stuff too early by random chance.

 

[Nithing]

Hopefully weapons won't be levelled and unique weapons will be better than those you can loot from any guy on the street.
In the Witcher 3, a lot of unique weapons were worse than which ever sword you last found at the bottom of a lake (Blade from the Bits was such a useless piece of shit).

 

[sv3672]

In the Witcher 3, a lot of unique weapons were worse than which ever sword you last found at the bottom of a lake (Blade from the Bits was such a useless piece of shit).

If I recall correctly, that weapon is scaled to your level. The sooner you play the quest, the worse it is.

 

[Nithing]

If I recall correctly, that weapon is scaled to your level. The sooner you play the quest, the worse it is.

I confess that I was not aware of this, though it remains an ever underwhelming reward from the master swordsmith.

 

[Mybrokenenglish]

It's fine in MMO's and Diablo-likes. These games do not have engaging storytelling/worlds, so instead they addict players to the "grind" with systems of loot/progression that constantly drive the player...more DPS, more DPS!!!
They are also not designed to be Immersive, so enemy level scaling and level gating of equipment, are a non issue.

But it's horrible way to go for Single Player RPGs. You can have one player that does everything there is in the game and another that plays bare minimum ( main quest)...how do you balance gameplay/difficulty for both at the same time?

Only one solution: Level Scaling...which completely works against player progression.

CDPR's designers had a very naive idea how to resolve it (in Witcher)...Hey, let's use partial lvl scaling so that enemies get de/buffs within 6 lvl range of Geralt!

But the game was simply too humongous for that( as Cyberpunk will, no doubt, be), so plenty of players overlevelled everything anyway.

So they added restrictive skill "equipping" sets ( as grand Witcher can't remember to use more than few skills at the time...but it only made progression worse by not allowing you to use all you gain by levelling.

So they added loot scaling tied to player level...but this made defeating weak opponents as rewarding as difficult encounters

So they added quest experience lvl scaling...but being overlevelled made you receive nothing at all

So they added lvl based gear restrictions...but this turned ton of gear simply worthless as you'd usually find something better anyway, before you can equip ( whatever you were holding in inventory)

And finally they had to add Global lvl scaling ( as menu option)...but this negates char progression and makes plenty of enemies stupidly OP

This kind of reminds me of one of those Communist regimes economy crashes: Main currency gets insanely inflated, so they invent different counter measures while completely ignoring the core problem that's causing it... and they fix nothing and only end up making an even bigger mess.

Please, for the love of god, CDPR, do not do this.

Vertical scaling of gear/player/enemy stats and open world rpgs are fundamentally incompatible and do not work together.

This is the most accurate description of what was wrong in the witcher 3 (together with a far from being perfect -but acceptable- combat system).

Good thing: 99% of feedbacks in this thread are against that loot system, hopefully CDPR will listen to us.

Bad thing: looter games (diablo, borderlands, destiny, anthem, the division...) exist and bring a lot of money to companies.

 

[Snowflakez]

This is the most accurate description of what was wrong in the witcher 3 (together with a far from being perfect -but acceptable- combat system).

Good thing: 99% of feedbacks in this thread are against that loot system, hopefully CDPR will listen to us.

Bad thing: looter games (diablo, borderlands, destiny, anthem, the division...) exist and bring a lot of money to companies.

They're definitely listening, whether or not they act on the feedback is where things get hazy. As you said, other looter games are very popular and CDPR may want to "go with the flow" to reach as many people as possible. It's not a bad move from a business perspective, but it damages the game's atmosphere.

 

[Suhiira]

As you said, other looter games are very popular and CDPR may want to "go with the flow" to reach as many people as possible. It's not a bad move from a business perspective, but it damages the game's atmosphere.

Call me strange (and many do) but I could care less what's popular. I care about what "fits" and "works" in the setting. Going back to dear old Bloodlines. Your weapon options were severely limited by modern standards, but guess what, everyone was fine with it. We neither need, nor want, a truckload of garbage weapons.

 

[IndifferentEmpathy]

Best solution for weapons and gear for FPS RPG is probably something like Mass Effect 3 which has them good enough to have variety in multiplayer increasing its longevity - and multiplayer is something CP2077 also intends to have in the future.

There shooting mechanics are not tied to player stats, but skill, yet there are perks that improve weapon damage etc by percentage, as does gear.

All weapons are useful, there is huge variety of them, and they all differ in how they feel. However if you want to use your favorite weapons you have to invest into them somewhat by upgrading them and modding.

I really do not want to have to look for Mark IV version of a Mark III weapon I like using in the game, or throw away my weapon because the one I found has better stats. In other words, I seriously hope CP2077 is as far away from loot shooter as possible.

 

[Snowflakez]

Call me strange (and many do) but I could care less what's popular. I care about what "fits" and "works" in the setting. Going back to dear old Bloodlines. Your weapon options were severely limited by modern standards, but guess what, everyone was fine with it. We neither need, nor want, a truckload of garbage weapons.

Yeah. I think most of us here feel this way, but we're probably in the minority. I think most people that buy 2077 will not care much about the details of its mechanics, they just want a fun/exciting game with a good story, which CDPR will undoubtedly deliver at the very least.

Hopefully they throw us a bone or two.

 

[Mybrokenenglish]

Call me strange (and many do) but I could care less what's popular. I care about what "fits" and "works" in the setting. Going back to dear old Bloodlines. Your weapon options were severely limited by modern standards, but guess what, everyone was fine with it. We neither need, nor want, a truckload of garbage weapons.

we all agree on that, problem is neither of us is a game designer, CEO or investor of CDPR.

 

[Snowflakez]

we all agree on that, problem is neither of us is a game designer, CEO or investor of CDPR.

I think they will at least give us a couple concessions. Not really sure what they'll be, though.

 

[animalfather]

like i said before, we have base weapons and then we upgrade them using higher level weapon parts. like barrel, bolt, stock ect.

 

[lelxrv]

Was level-based gear and scaling confirmed to be in the final game or it's only speculation at this point?

 

[Mybrokenenglish]

Was level-based gear and scaling confirmed to be in the final game or it's only speculation at this point?

speculation based on demo + the witcher 3 + latest market trends.

 

[lelxrv]

I see. Then there's still chance.

 

[Tuco]

Call me strange (and many do) but I could care less what's popular. I care about what "fits" and "works" in the setting. Going back to dear old Bloodlines. Your weapon options were severely limited by modern standards, but guess what, everyone was fine with it. We neither need, nor want, a truckload of garbage weapons.

Personally I'm also very suspicious of the assumption that "This mechanic was in that popular game" should count as the equivalent of "It would make our game more popular".

What "works" in a loot-based hack'n slash doesn't necessarily transfer well in a game with a very different flow, focus and pacing.

I don't think anyone EVER played, say, Baldu'r Gate 2: Shadow of Amn and thought "God, this would be so much better if we had Diablo-like random loot in the metric shittons dropping every few steps".

 

[Suhiira]

I don't think anyone EVER played, say, Baldu'r Gate 2: Shadow of Amn and thought "God, this would be so much better if we had Diablo-like random loot in the metric shittons dropping every few steps".

Amen Brother!

I don't recall which game it was, but some time ago I played an RPG and during the course of the entire game there were like a total, TOTAL, of five (or pretty close to that) loot drops. While that may be a bit as much on the extreme side as most modern games (where you get truckloads of junk), those items mattered, and you felt you'd gotten something significant.

I also seem to recall the original Torment was pretty stingy with non-one-shot-"potion"-type loot.

 

[Snowflakez]

There are many elements to consider here.

What does "loot" mean" Is it literally any item you pick up from a chest, body, crate, etc.? Is it only gear? Is it only gear with stats? Where are these lines drawn?

In general, I'm not a fan of being flooded with loot Diablo-style (Witcher 3 DID NOT have Diablo-style loot - if you think that, go play Diablo 3 again and then come back), and I don't like levelled loot period. I don't want to find a really cool jacket that I have to replace 20 minutes later because something else is better.

But I've thought about this more, and I've realized you have to be careful. For all of the issues with The Witcher 3's loot system, nobody can say you weren't able to create a unique look for yourself. If we throw all of the stats out the window and purely look at all the choices you have regarding how you want to look, I'd say that's a good thing, not a bad thing. I want variety in gear, and lots of it.

This is a tough situation. If items don't have stats, then players have less incentive to try different weapons and armor. This is probably one of the single biggest reasons CDPR has gone the route they've gone, despite its heavy contrast to the PnP's system. After all, this isn't a tabletop game where all "assets" exist in the player's head. It's a 3D RPG - everything has to be created by an artist. Why would they waste their time on dozens or 100+ articles of neat, varied clothing options when only a fraction will be used?

What if the only armor/clothing in Cyberpunk 2077 was 5 "Witcher sets"? For some, maybe that's OK. But in a Cyberpunk game where fashion is a big deal, I have to say "no thanks."

I'm not sure what the answer here is. At worst, mods can solve progression and de-level it, just as they've done with The Witcher 3.