Gender-free Romance Petition

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Yes, I agree with you. This game was never intended to be something like an RPG anyway, right! :D
On steam its still an rpg on wikipedia its an action-rpg, on the CDPR page i dont find any information about it, but... even real time strategy games have choice and consequences. You decide to build to less tanks, your army gets crushed.. there is no.. wait i want to win anyway button :p
 
I’m sorry to disappoint you but...
It’s not about someone’s needs or desires. Besides that there are plot details and some of them are defined from the very beginning. In case of CP we can see that characters’ sexuality is such option that is not appeared suddenly along with protagonist (Vincent or Valerie). They can’t change their preferences just because that is our need.

Is it surprising? Obviously, not.
I can agree that there are some character traits that can be neglected. Perhaps...
But I am absolutely convinced that sexuality is not one of them. So devs are.
I'm not disappointed. I'll play the way I want and so should you.

Are you saying that your opinion is superior to mine?

Mind if I ask you the same question?

Why would you want to change the in-game character sexual preference? It is how writers wanted to show it - deal with it.
I wrote that in the post above.
 
Those lines that were recorded by Gavin were placeholders. At the end of the day the only thing that's canon is what's observable in the final cut of the game - Judy as lesbian and Panam as straight.
Panam isn't straight, though, she's bisexual. You can romance her as Female V as long as you have the male body type. No save edits or mods needed. Dialogue and texts are properly gendered, which means it was intentional on CDPR's part. Same with River and Male V with the female body type.
 
Panam isn't straight, though, she's bisexual. You can romance her as Female V as long as you have the male body type. No save edits or mods needed. Dialogue and texts are properly gendered, which means it was intentional on CDPR's part. Same with River and Male V with the female body type.
Does the body you have doesn't make you male or female?

Voice can be vastly different - some men have soft voice, some woman's have deeper voices than men.

Panam will only sleep with you if you have pp that makes her straight. River will only sleep with you only if you have a pocket for the sword.
 
Ugh, I've been avoiding this thread since its creation because I knew it would turn into a heated argument at some point.

My two eddies on the issue is that the sexual orientations should remain as they are; it's somewhat (I say somewhat because there should be more romance options to choose from, in terms of characters) reflective of real life. Sexual preference is a person's own decision/ inclination and is not anything for any of us to question, just as we would not expect to be questioned.

I've been playing video games for about twenty years now. If you told me ten years ago that in a decade or so there will be a lesbian relationship taking a leading role in a game that will be compared to GTA, I would instantly have dismissed you as dreaming and living in a fantasy land. We really have come a long way to not just see a lesbian relationship, but one which is incredibly well put together and fairly authentic in that as a player, we can really feel that the NPC is very certain in her preference/ inclination. Cyberpunk 2077 has done a stellar job in taking the risk with the romance options (given the demographics of gamers) and I applaud them for at least bringing some more people (in a set of consumers fairly used to status quo) around to learning that in reality, the sexual preference/ inclination of somebody else is something that they have no right to question.

That said, I see Cyberpunk 2077 as an important step in the process for better representation of relationships that haven't been/ aren't portrayed in major games titles. On this basis, the formula/ approach should not be tampered with at all ':/
 
Does the body you have doesn't make you male or female?

Voice can be vastly different - some men have soft voice, some woman's have deeper voices than men.

Panam will only sleep with you if you have pp that makes her straight. River will only sleep with you only if you have a pocket for the sword.

Gender identity is determined solely by voice attribute in the CC as far as I'm aware. Also, if you play V as a trans woman, fem-bodied with a dick, Panam has zero interest whereas River is romanceable. Also Kerry isn't interested but Judy is (JUDY FOREVERRRR)
 
Does the body you have doesn't make you male or female?
Nope, voice determines V's gender and how the entire gameworld adresses them.

As for biological sex, that's borderline meaningless in this universe thanks to biosculpting. If you visit the Night City Marina you can overhear a conversation between a wealthy actress and her friends where she talks about how she completely changed herself into a biological male in order to play a male role in a movie, even down to the voice, but then changed back once she shot her scenes.
Voice can be vastly different - some men have soft voice, some woman's have deeper voices than men.
Sure, but not in terms of the game's mechanics. If you use the male voice and the female body type, V identifies as and is identified by others as a man, and vice versa.
Panam will only sleep with you if you have pp that makes her straight. River will only sleep with you only if you have a pocket for the sword.
Except your choice of genitals doesn't affect the romances whatsoever. If you choose the male voice and male body with a vagina, Panam and Kerry will still sleep with V. If you choose the female voice and female body with a penis, Judy and River will still sleep with V.
 
In my opinion, it would be more including being able to romance any one of the four regardless of V's sex.

To those that argue that the sexual preference of the NPCs personality is what it is. I would offer my point of view that they are computer generated scripts, not real people, and therefore instantly changeable.

And, a faux P/V is a small thing to ad as an implant in CP (burning crotch man) making any distinction between sexes redundant.
Not to mention voice box, breasts and any other physical attribute being considered gender specific.
 
This topic has been approached in substance to no end and apparently without end in terms of dedication. This time however with direct action in form of a petition. While you have full freedom to start one and hope to push for a change with it, this particular petition, if adhered to, would create more problems and ultimately just spread the problem you were trying to address to different parties invested in the characters at this point in time.

The OP doesn't say much as to reasoning why they feel this petition should go through. They do elaborate in their secondary response with the need to meet the affinities of people that don't conform to the gender binary and therefore won't see their love interest met with their preferences.
Obvious simple consequence of this change at this stage would be to alienate a huge portion of the game's audience and create controversy for CDPR. The necessary very apparent character assassinations across the board would see many leave the game as it would show CDPR to be inept in their design decisions and showing no faith in the work of their writers. Let alone lack of respect for those that grew attached to the characters as they are. Drawn from this we can conclude that the petition will not impact the game, and in my opinion this thread better shift focus into discussing the merit or lack there of in having gender specific romances (and vice versa) in upcoming games or games in general. I would personally like to hear why it would be of benefit to the game or other games to make romances player sexual beyond the argument of just being a game and therefore should conform to the player. The need to meet everyone's expectation seems to be a fools errand because in current day and age it is near impossible to meet the expectation of every person and newly discovered gender expression.

However if someone feels this argument has weight, I would like to hear why?

Since this topic has been discussed so often with very little diversity in points to support it, many of us are left with repeating the same responses for posterity's sake. To address some of the arguments in the thread and lay out benefits in having gender specific romances as well as possible reasons why the developer chose to go with them:

  • One of it could be the obvious: character's background story. Sexuality can be used as a tool by the writers for development of a character. Sexuality while not often, is a valid driving force for development of a character or their personality, it shapes defining features when it comes to behavior, animation/movement, appearance and the way the character is seen by their environment. Some or all of those details will be translated onto the character in their definitive presence. I will note that artists like to work with a lot of details and info in order to create the best picture that would harbor the underlying traits that the characters are build upon.
  • Following on the first point, the consequences of said features will be evident in how the characters treat certain genders and how they will respond to their advances, and ultimately the outcome would be refusal or acceptance of said advances. The result is that the characters have the illusion of agency within their space and that makes them appear as equals to the player who is always the definitive driving force in a game.
  • Next reasoning could be tied to the 2 above and it regards the writers and character designers. It would be a very strange request from CDPR to have their writers and designers limited to creating characters without any reference to their sexuality at all. Love is a driving factor in many characters backstories and probably the single strongest force in many lives; loss of a lover, rejection, jealousy, lust etc. All these serve as plot devices in characters development. Why they feel the need to do it though? For the sake of relatability to you and me. They want you to make a connection to the character, their past, their choices and have you understand them on a personal level.
  • Relatability and immersion. When it comes to immersion it is equally as important when it comes to characters as it is when it comes to how light bounces off surfaces or how physics interact with objects in the world. Devs try to make a relatable and immersive world with outstanding creative inputs while keeping the base close to us so we can allow ourselves to be immersed. From visuals to sound we must accept the world that is presented. Same extends to characters. A character that would do something way out of line in the story without explanation would break immersion. Their ability to refuse or accept the player makes them relatable and allows us to explore 2 separate sets of their interactivity with us, this gives them depth and hits us either with a cold familiar sting of rejection or overwhelming sense of joy in approval, and the art of a video game is to give you that experience directly. No other media can replicate this to the same extend for the individual.
  • Another reason would be to encourage the player to find one more reason to give the game another go from the start, this time as opposite gender V. Remember that V has the biggest role in the entire game and the way people talk and approach them varies when male and when female. For the devs it would be reasonable to push you to give the other side a try and see if maybe you enjoy it more.
Okey, you could say that all of these reasons are pointless, ultimately its only the player that counts and the player should have the most options and choices right away and limiting them is bad game design. If the developers were to follow up on this train of though you would be getting only 2 romance choices, male and female, with their respective story that adapts to you being able to romance them with the character you present yourself to them as. They would not be able to refuse you due to their preference anymore and you would know what to expect. And those could be any male and female on street, sure. You could date any random NPC on the street and get the same shallow experience. But they would have the looks you like at least.
It is because the authors respect you enough to avoid giving you one dimensional characters to romance that they make such decisions in my opinion. Hopefully they respect you enough to improve on the romance depth as well as fix the more obvious issues of the game like bugs going forward.
 
I would personally like to hear why it would be of benefit to the game or other games to make romances player sexual beyond the argument of just being a game and therefore should conform to the player. The need to meet everyone's expectation seems to be a fools errand because in current day and age it is near impossible to meet the expectation of every person and newly discovered gender expression.
I'm sorry for cutting that extensive wall of text.

I think I have made that somewhat clear earlier?

As I see it, the option of romance could be offered or not, and if offered it should be free since it implies that 'there is someone just for you'. If this is not the case i.e. setting rules on whom to be eligible for romancing, then there is a lie. The solution for this would be to not base romance options on sex (or gender). In case of CP, Judy being gay does not interfere with her story, or personality.

The same goes for any other game. Leliana or Morrigan. Triss or Jennefer. The choice is there, and to me the more crucial aspect is what happens when I try to romance both (or all) and what result comes from that betrayal (yes I consider being faithful important).

The gender question becomes mote if there are no constraints. A simple solution so a simple problem. Yes, simple. Because by trying to cater to everyone's notion of what is considered correct, you create a problem where there is none.
 
I'm sorry for cutting that extensive wall of text.

I think I have made that somewhat clear earlier?

As I see it, the option of romance could be offered or not, and if offered it should be free since it implies that 'there is someone just for you'. If this is not the case i.e. setting rules on whom to be eligible for romancing, then there is a lie. The solution for this would be to not base romance options on sex (or gender). In case of CP, Judy being gay does not interfere with her story, or personality.

The same goes for any other game. Leliana or Morrigan. Triss or Jennefer. The choice is there, and to me the more crucial aspect is what happens when I try to romance both (or all) and what result comes from that betrayal (yes I consider being faithful important).

The gender question becomes mote if there are no constraints. A simple solution so a simple problem. Yes, simple. Because by trying to cater to everyone's notion of what is considered correct, you create a problem where there is none.
Well, Leliana is bisexual and Morrigan is straight. Both Triss and Yen are straight as well. I don't see you complaining about them having only one sexuality but with Judy is a no no because she's not into men. It's part of her personality, what she likes.
 
I reckon by this point CDPR should just cut their losses and remove ALL 'romance' possibilities options and non-options from this and all future games/stories. You want it, well there's a real world out there, go quibble with that.
 
Well, Leliana is bisexual and Morrigan is straight. Both Triss and Yen are straight as well. I don't see you complaining about them having only one sexuality but with Judy is a no no because she's not into men. It's part of her personality, what she likes.
I'm not complaining and Judy is a fictional computer character. It could be anything I want it to be.
 
from a immersion point of view it would be better to have more potential lovers of all preferences but that wouldn't be very practical..
it would be a lot of time and money.. but I don't know about everybody in NC being by or swingers...but who knows it's a hyper sexual society maybe add a lot of one night stand potentials similar to the joytoy system ...charm (dialog choices plus stat ) instead of eddies at clubs, beach, social places.......
 
All right, that is enough. Some of you continuously fail to follow the simple rule of respecting others' opinions, so this thread is done now with a few last deletions.

Thank you to those who participated in the discussion constructively and without attacking others.
 
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