Gender-free Romance Petition

[Aedus_Amaterasu]

I'm at the very least happy to know that the negative response I have received in this particular forum has not been reflected in the other fandom spaces, online and in real life, that I am a part of. This has been an uncharacteristically toxic experience that thankfully doesn't seem to be mirrored in the rest of the science fiction/cyberpunk-genre fandom, which seems to be comprised of people who are actually comfortable with the idea that the future might not be as rigid as the present when it comes to relationships...

It has been my personally experience that most, if not the vast majority of gamers, dislike/hate when people bring real world politics/social/(insert any RL problem) in to video games. A majority of gamers play games to get away from our world and it's ridiculous problems not to be constantly reminded of them. This could be, in my opinion, why you are getting some negative push back. The majority of gamers don't want games to be like real life, maybe more life like but not like our world and certainly not its problems. If that where the case we wouldn't play them we would just go outside and live it if we loved it so much instead of playing video games. You have to remember that a video game is a fictitious world and while it may bear some resemblance to our own in some ways it is not our world and you should never expect it to be and very few gamers want to play a game that is the life they can already live just by walking out of their house.

I am happy you have fandom spaces you feel are not toxic and you feel comfortable in. With that being said, while there have been some posts that I personally might call a little rude in this thread I would have to say that calling this thread toxic is rather disingenuous. If it was anywhere near that the Mods would be all over it and/or locked this thread already. Just because people don't agree with you or tell you what you want to hear doesn't make them toxic.

Also this topic always gets pretty tense from what I have seen on this forum. Mostly because CDPR have made it quite clear they will not budge on this issue and people keep bring it up over and over again. Also, I don't think it's anything against you personally. You where just way late to the party is all. The next person to start a thread about this topic will prolly get it worse then you.

 

[Zannen_Desune]

It has been my personally experience that most, if not the vast majority of gamers, dislike/hate when people bring real world politics/social/(insert any RL problem) in to video games. A majority of gamers play games to get away from our world and it's ridiculous problems not to be constantly reminded of them. This could be, in my opinion, why you are getting some negative push back. The majority of gamers don't want games to be like real life, maybe more life like but not like our world and certainly not its problems. If that where the case we wouldn't play them we would just go outside and live it if we loved it so much instead of playing video games. You have to remember that a video game is a fictitious world and while it may bear some resemblance to our own in some ways it is not our world and you should never expect it to be and very few gamers want to play a game that is the life they can already live just by walking out of their house.

I am happy you have fandom spaces you feel are not toxic and you feel comfortable in. With that being said, while there have been some posts that I personally might call a little rude in this thread I would have to say that calling this thread toxic is rather disingenuous. If it was anywhere near that the Mods would be all over it and/or locked this thread already. Just because people don't agree with you or tell you what you want to hear doesn't make them toxic.

Also this topic always gets pretty tense from what I have seen on this forum. Mostly because CDPR have made it quite clear they will not budge on this issue and people keep bring it up over and over again. Also, I don't think it's anything against you personally. You where just way late to the party is all. The next person to start a thread about this topic will prolly get it worse then you.

I agree with most of what you are saying, for sure. I would simply add that for some of us, playing a game where our gender identities or orientations are excluded from even being a possibility is... sadly all too reminiscent of real life. So where some gamers, depending on how they identify, might see this as dragging real world tension into their escape spaces, some others, myself included, would see it as trying to eliminate real world tension. I hope that makes sense? IDK, it's certainly contentious but I'm at least grateful to have been able to make any remarks at all, in the hopes that if anyone else out there is like me, they might read what I've said and at least feel less alone.

 

[Gillian_Seed]

It's not the case in real life, it shouldn't be represented in game.

I see both sides when it comes to such a desire as making everyone a romance option to everyone, on one hand fleshing out characters more realistically can bring them to life in a more meaningful way but on the other hand I'm fairly certain most people play games for fantasy not realism.

I'm torn on this issue myself.

 

[TyraWadman]

No, for the same reasons we don't force them to recolor every character to suit the different regions of the world. They're telling a story, not marketing a dating sim game!

 

[Aedus_Amaterasu]

I agree with most of what you are saying, for sure. I would simply add that for some of us, playing a game where our gender identities or orientations are excluded from even being a possibility is... sadly all too reminiscent of real life. So where some gamers, depending on how they identify, might see this as dragging real world tension into their escape spaces, some others, myself included, would see it as trying to eliminate real world tension. I hope that makes sense? IDK, it's certainly contentious but I'm at least grateful to have been able to make any remarks at all, in the hopes that if anyone else out there is like me, they might read what I've said and at least feel less alone.

I completely get where you are coming from and believe it or not I do understand but I still think you are approaching this from the wrong angle.

Try taking the angle I suggested in my first post in this thread, or at least seriously consider it if you haven't already, about asking for more romance options instead of changing the ones that are already there. You will find that you would have a great many allies in that regard, including me.

I to agree that there should be more romance options and some that appeal to a wider range of sexual preferences.

 

[Nimkal]

The gender restriction is pretty darn stupid.

Post automatically merged: Jan 23, 2021

But thankfully modders are here to help unnecessary crap like that in video games. Already resolved it.

 

[Sentinel21]

I'm new to this forum but I think I'm not alone in saying that would be a bad idea.

 

[Zannen_Desune]

I completely get where you are coming from and believe it or not I do understand but I still think you are approaching this from the wrong angle.

Try taking the angle I suggested in my first post in this thread, or at least seriously consider it if you haven't already, about asking for more romance options instead of changing the ones that are already there. You will find that you would have a great many allies in that regard, including me.

I to agree that there should be more romance options and some that appeal to a wider range of sexual preferences.

I really appreciate you talking to me like a human being. It might seem silly, but it really does mean a lot when you know that, even if a person disagrees with or has a different take on some of your points, at least you know they've heard and understood your intentions. Again, I know it probably seems like a super small thing, but thanks.

 

[EuphoricM]

Personally, I'd just like a couple of characters with fleshed out romance options who specifically fit into the gender neutral or trans community.

Then I misinterpreted you, I though you just weren't happy about characters having their own orientation, my bad. I'm all on board your pro-representation stance then.

 

[Kra-ven]

Nah.

Look Judy is hot, I get it, but give it a rest guys. You win some and you lose some.

Judy just doesn't like you.

 

[Guest 4541318]

hmm...no

 

[Zannen_Desune]

Then I misinterpreted you, I though you just weren't happy about characters having their own orientation, my bad. I'm all on board your pro-representation stance then.

Thank you and sorry for the confusion. I could have communicated better.

 

[SigilFey]

I'm stepping in for only a moment, and happy that I can do so pleasantly. A lot of the talk (while not really abrasive or disrespectful) is once again beginning to get very personal. Keep the discussion on the game.

For example, please keep the discussion away from:

• Whether or not the topic is "toxic".
• How we feel about other people in the thread.
• What's wrong with how other people are looking at the topic.
• "In real life, I [insert-real-life-interactions-with-real-people-instead-of-fictional-and-gameplay-concerns.]"
• Etc.

We're not here to get people to think differently about things. We're here to share our thoughts about how such a consideration affects the game. (If someone decides to change their mind on a topic, that's their own prerogative.)

 

[Aisar87]

No thanks, I like my characters to feel more real, have personality, preferences. Let's just make every character in every game white while we are at it.

 

[Robert_Pelz]

Didn't read all posts here, but I wonder why this is a petition to change the sexual orientation of the romancable characters instead of a petition to add romances for other genders and orientations. Like Stout becoming a permanent female bisexual option, Claire being a mtf transgender option (imagine her writing you weeks later, that she realized life has to go on) etc. I can't remember any male equivalents right now, but pretty sure there are some.

 

[20Arasaka77]

I respect your responses. I too realize that in real life, people have preferences. That's not in doubt at all.

What I will say, and what I hope you might consider, is that gender exists in a broader spectrum than what it presented in the game, and representing the full spectrum would require a huge amount of work on the parts of the developers. Work that may have been too delicate for a game with the sort of concept to release cycle that they had to work with.

As such, they have tried to fairly and broadly represent that spectrum in a manner that has ended up limiting choices in a way that specifically excludes people who are gender-neutral, gender-nonconforming, and trans.

The fact that I can, for example, play a character with a "feminine voice," breasts, and a penis, but am limited in my romance options to what we would, in 2021, consider to belong to the strictly "lesbian" category is really disheartening to me as a player and I know I'm not alone.

The reason I've started the petition isn't to force something on players that is egregious. I've started it because the solutions that were developed in the limited timeframe given to the game designers has left out and stigmatized people, myself included, who don't necessarily fit into a binary understanding of gender, and without years to work on just this one problem, it seems to me that just removing gender restrictions altogether is the easiest fix to remove that potential stigma.

That response might comes a little late, but I just want to add my thoughts as well, since I totally agree with your view and ideas and want to support it a little. I myself was really unsatisfied with the outcome of my Vs romantic life, and I feel removing this lock would't be that much of a big deal.

Especially after the developers stated that they removed the aspect of gender from the character creation menu, to create an environment thats free of choice for all people to create a character outside the boundaries of just male or just female. They actually should have enhanced this on any sexual orientation in general.

For example you could make it dependant on your choices in game and your actions that define whether or not a character like Judy, Panam, River or Kerry is interested in you, but not on the way your character looks. I gotta state as well, that this is not the real world, so the decision should be on the players side to create the game and story as they wish.

It does not even necessarily mean you cant give characters personality and backstory. For example in Judys case, she had an obvious interest in women in her past as we learn through the game, but just because she mentions past girlfriends doesnt have to mean she cant be into a V with male body features. So in the end in some peoples stories she could be fully lesbian while in other peoples stories she might be bisexual or without any special preference with the exact same backstory and probably everyone would be happy.

You are definitely not alone with this unsatisfied feeling of being denied from certain romance options for your V, and amid the many people who had a different opinion from yours, I just wanted to say I understand your request.

 

[Guest 4564903]

I think its been done in the best way possible, just like real life some people are just not interested no matter how much you want them to be. I also think its adds to the replayability of the game.

I think it would be much better to add new romance options with other NPC's rather than change the current ones, hopefully this will happen in future story DLC.

 

[Niatka]

for my part, the gameplay about romances {straight or gay} is quite acceptable.
I am a bi-sexual woman, I have always been, for some it is a vice, a deviance, for others it is natural.
when I see this petition to remove the restrictions, I don't agree. we are all different, we are certainly not called to become, with the wave of a magic wand, of a different gender.
my partner is straight, he accepts my way of life {sex} and he suffers from it. he never asked me to change; who would I be then in his eyes?

accept ourselves as we are; {this is the basis of all forms of inner peace}

 

[koalahugs]

I feel like we're already up to our eyeballs in narrative convenience by having 1 gay female, 1 straight female, 1 gay male, and 1 straight male (despite the symmetry, I think they make up for it by making the relationships themselves fairly asymmetrical to one another). Anyway, I don't know why but making our tiny sample of 4 people the same would just shatter the illusion of believability for me. I need the characters to be somewhat believable to anchor my escape into CP. That being said, I'm cool with having additional romance options to cover a wider gamut. Not sure they'll have the time to do that for CP2077 though... In any case, I definitely support better representation for gender-fluid people/relationships in future AAA titles at least (in the industry in general).

 

[yonotengopena]

What we need is more content for existing romances, maybe add a couple new bi ones, but under no circumstances rewrite already established characters