Generalized ammo types were a HUGE mistake (and looter shooter gameplay in general)

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This game misses out a ton on having just four general ammo types. What makes Fallout so fun, is collecting all those different ammo types. It makes looting fun, since you have to manage your inventory. In CB2077 you never have to manage it. You just collect everything in your sight and its teadious to click so much, having a set weight limit makes you naturally filter trash items with just a quick glance, instead following the markers and picking everything up without any thought. But im getting offtopic, weight limit - that's another thing. Here are my suggestions:
- get rid of generalized ammo types: shotgun ammo, sniper ammo, rifle ammo, pistol ammo etc. and instead add: .45, 12 gauge, 5 gauge (yeah carnage uses those massive shells, I bet you didnt know that)
- get rid of randomized stats for weapons
- add different ammo types (which would require adding damage threshold/armor penetration mechanic like in New Vegas - https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Damage_Threshold) like .45 AP, .45 HP, birdshot shotgun shells, incendiary 10mm etc for different purposes. Like if you wanted to take down cyberpsycho you would go with Johnny's Malorian pistol and its powerful (but perhaps rare) Nitro Express ammo. THIS GAME IS PERFECT FOR SOMETHING LIKE THIS SINCE DIFFERENT GANGS HAVE DIFFERENT WEAKNESSES! WTF WHY DIDNT YOU ADD THIS?? anyway
- add more complex ammo crafting. Find gunpowder and combine it with casings and primers to create ammo. Making everything out of generalized "junk" is BORING.

That's all. I hope some dev sees this and considers my suggestion.
 
... THIS GAME IS PERFECT FOR SOMETHING LIKE THIS SINCE DIFFERENT GANGS HAVE DIFFERENT WEAKNESSES! WTF WHY DIDNT YOU ADD THIS?? ...
The answer: because in this game, instead of different ammo types, there are different damage types on guns themselves (physical, fire, lightning, poison). Instead of managing weight of different ammo piles, there is the possibility to manage weight of additional guns (with different damage types) in one's intentory.

I am sorry, but i am not going to comment the rest of your post; even while i disagree with much of it.
 
even the weapon system was cut to bare minimum... if u look at the weapon mods themselves there are still boni for range f.e. not to speak that trailer shown way more stats on weapon/gear in general...
 

nc_01

Forum regular
Different people have different needs. For me even a single ammo type would be just fine. I'm not interested in spending my gaming time in the inventory and counting how much of the different ammo types I have. Same goes for crafting - it is great that in the game you can craft and have fun with it if you like it but you are not forced to.
 
Different people have different needs. For me even a single ammo type would be just fine. I'm not interested in spending my gaming time in the inventory and counting how much of the different ammo types I have. Same goes for crafting - it is great that in the game you can craft and have fun with it if you like it but you are not forced to.
u are kinda forced to go with 18 attribute points in crafting if you wanna complete your wall stash of iconics - cause one of them is a legendary crafting spec... still curious if this is on purpose... while every other iconic crafting spec comes at rare... : /
 

nc_01

Forum regular
u are kinda forced to go with 18 attribute points in crafting if you wanna complete your wall stash of iconics - cause one of them is a legendary crafting spec... still curious if this is on purpose... while every other iconic crafting spec comes at rare... : /
I agree. I would prefer to able to put any (or any iconic) weapon on the wall. But will have to live with that I guess. The good thing is that the game does not enforce it in the sense that you can progress, have fun and finish the game without crafting. But if you like it and invest into that ability then you can fill your stash wall as a reward.
 
The answer: because in this game, instead of different ammo types, there are different damage types on guns themselves (physical, fire, lightning, poison).
Having different ammo types is more fun, since you can customize the weapon yourself, instead of having to rely on shitty looter shooter mechanics to give you specific type of damage. Not only that, but it's more immersive.
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Different people have different needs. For me even a single ammo type would be just fine. I'm not interested in spending my gaming time in the inventory and counting how much of the different ammo types I have. Same goes for crafting - it is great that in the game you can craft and have fun with it if you like it but you are not forced to.
"For me even a single ammo type would be just fine"
But then as other person said, you have 1000s of weapons with different damage types that you have to manage... having ammo system is cleaner, immersive AND there's something more to it: having unique ammo types would allow devs to make some weapons stand out. For example they could give Johnny's Malorian ridiculously high damage, but make its Nitro Express ammo rare. So in this case, looter shooter mechanics are making the game less fun, in exchange for simplicity. Having generalized ammo types forces devs to make all pistols similar to each other. Maybe one will get automatic fire, while other is semi auto, but that's barely any difference - DPS stays about the same (plus the game was supposed to have fire mode switch, as shown in the gameplay trailer... that was cut).
"Same goes for crafting - it is great that in the game you can craft and have fun with it if you like it but you are not forced to."
there's nothing fun in cyberpunk's crafting system. It's so painfully simplified that you don't feel like you are crafting anything. To me it seems like every aspect of this game was created with ADHD people in mind. There's not a single complex aspect that requires some thought about how to approach it, you just click a button and move on. PC doesn't even have a walk key.
 
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Weapons shouldn't have levels at all, the system is completely dumb.

"Oh yeah, here is this superduper cool ICONIC gun, now throw it in the dumpspter 20 minutes later"

Likewise, clothes shouldn't have innate armor values at all, just 1 armor mod slot then extra slots based on quality.

A gun is a gun, pants are pants. Progression should be tied to stats, abilities and implants. Iconic weapons should be powerful and stay powerful cause if you don't wanna invest points into crafting you are completely screwed cause most of them are garbage until you upgrade them to yellow.

Then when you reach 30s 40s in levels you realize you can oneshot everything before anyone can even do anything making all that looting meaningless in the first place.
 
From the early issues people were having from larger save files just collecting random items in game, this feature would've only added more problems. However, I understand your argument for modification and adding additional elements for crafting. I was hoping for a worthwhile investment going into the crafting tree given the limitless options of tech customization in a cyberpunk world. That being said, I don't find the ability to craft and manage specialized ammo types a realistic priority with this title.
 
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But how different is the system from a d&d type rpg? I mean you start with your humble sword of 1d6 damage and found your 1d4+3 sword with a 20% chance of activating its eternal flame,same goes to the armor/clothing. Damage is not only defined by character stats in a rpg typically.
And sure,as you level-up items get obsolete( my D&D druid has a 1 page long list of weapons that are not used anymore...).
The whole complain about "loot-shoot" misses the point that this was copied from RPGs not the other way around(statistical damage and bonus in weapons,just check a rpg manual).
They could have implemented an ammo system of calibers(4 calibers for each type of weapon) + special ammo for stats/damage(an explosive bullet or armor piercing or incendiary) and just 4 types of revolver,rifle etc...but then you move the "loot-shoot" to the ammo since better ammo(stats/damage) should be more rare/expensive/difficult to find than common ammo.
The main problem of cp2077,is that at a certain level you don't find challenging enemies anymore but its not the weapon/ammo mechanic the issue. You can think about an "automatic enemy level scaling",but then for me is better to just drop any progression system because relatively speaking you don't level-up at all if enemies level-up at the same pace as you.
 

Guest 4563100

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Then when you reach 30s 40s in levels you realize you can oneshot everything before anyone can even do anything making all that looting meaningless in the first place.

Yeah. But really game don't make sense after you get Raven hacking deck or the slow mo from Fingers. Around level 20.

So, I say no. First of all ammo types do nothing since you can craft ammo. Secondly every minute they make ammo types they don't make playable game balance.
 
This game misses out a ton on having just four general ammo types. What makes Fallout so fun, is collecting all those different ammo types. It makes looting fun,
It makes it fun for some people, not everyone.

I personally enjoy games that keep the mindless inventory management to the bare minimum. I'm not trying to spend hours in the gun shop tryingot figure out how many rounds of .45 ACP vs. 9 mm I need for a job.

That being said, I wish that there were more significant differences in the various weapon mods like scopes and flash suppressors.
 
Weapons shouldn't have levels at all, the system is completely dumb.

"Oh yeah, here is this superduper cool ICONIC gun, now throw it in the dumpspter 20 minutes later"

Likewise, clothes shouldn't have innate armor values at all, just 1 armor mod slot then extra slots based on quality.
Iconic weapons should be powerful and stay powerful cause if you don't wanna invest points into crafting you are completely screwed cause most of them are garbage until you upgrade them to yellow.
this. although i tried to avoid 18 points in tech tree i often find myself putting at least 12 points into it on any build cause of the iconics... u could say wait with the looting until high level but some are missable or locked (without freefly mod or console command spawn) which makes them obsolete without the crafting tree.... that was one of the first things which bothered me that i realized "wow this green knife is stronger than every of my iconics so far..." in the very first few days after release : /
 
I also disagree with the core suggestion here. Having different ammo types might add more flavour and "reality" (as much as a sci-fi game needs reality) to the game but it would provide little game-benefit and would likely be needless tedium to your average player.

Looking at it from a pure gameplay angle:

Given there is a crafting system, any ammo type can be created with materials and so differing ammo types doesn't add to the scarcity unless the game were to make some ammo types less-easy to craft. All that would do though would be to make the weapons which fire those ammo types less useful. "This shotgun's stats are great, but I don't want to use it because getting its ammo is like finding rocking horse droppings". But we already HAVE a rarity system for weapons, so the best weapons are already scarce. We don't also need their ammo to be scarce.

The only (gameplay) reason for featuring an ammo system at all in shooter games is so players can't just hold down the fire button on a full-auto weapon and cheese their way through the game.

There are so many mechanics already in the game that CDPR need to very careful about what they add and what they don't. Any mechanics/complexity in the game need to serve a really good purpose and need to enrich the experience for all/most players. If a given mechanic is only going to satisfy a minority whilst degrading the game for the majority (which it think this would) then I believe it should be left on the cutting room floor.

Perhaps a community mod could address this kind of thing in the future? Although I understand the mod tooling isn't in very good shape yet.
 
I just started playing CP2077 again with the latest patch after playing many many hours of Valheim, a crafting heavy survival game, which is great. To craft different ammo types and to improve the crafting scope in general I think CP2077 would need to add something that it is sorely missing: a real home base. Sure we have our "apartment" but there isn't a way to add storage or to improve it. TW3 had Geralt carry everything and I guess we could do that here.
I think one of the biggest underlying factors to the game is that it is not that complex/deep in terms of it's mechanics; almost anything you do will work, which adds convenience and flexibility, but it doesn't require a complex crafting system to deal with complex problems. I am not saying this is bad, just the way they wanted it. The freedom to play how you want. My latest playthrough is full hacking, rush intelligence to 20, so I could really care less about ammo. I never use guns.

TLDR: I think we all wanted the great, mythical and full of expectations CP2077 to encompass all the great things we love about our favorite games. That is not the game they made, but I still enjoy it most of the time. Except when I can't jump in "safe" zones.......
 
Not a fan of a great many design choices on part of CRPR, but to counterpoint everyone who argues that there should be survival mechanics, many different ammo types and other such features characteristic of games such as Fallout, Stalker or Metro – there's a simple factor to consider: it all takes place in a non-post-apocaliptic city setting where you can go buy more ammo or medkits from a vending machine or a store around any given corner. Factors such as ammo scrarcity, thirst, inventory management et cetera are practically non-existent in such a gameworld and CDPR was correct to recognise that. Having said that I do think it's all balanced way too simplistically, allowing to carry way too much ammo at once and so on, but that's part of the direction they'd chosen.
 
Not a fan of a great many design choices on part of CRPR, but to counterpoint everyone who argues that there should be survival mechanics, many different ammo types and other such features characteristic of games such as Fallout, Stalker or Metro – there's a simple factor to consider: it all takes place in a non-post-apocaliptic city setting where you can go buy more ammo or medkits from a vending machine or a store around any given corner. Factors such as ammo scrarcity, thirst, inventory management et cetera are practically non-existent in such a gameworld and CDPR was correct to recognise that. Having said that I do think it's all balanced way too simplistically, allowing to carry way too much ammo at once and so on, but that's part of the direction they'd chosen.
None of that crap have any business being in Cyberpunk. You want guns and ammo? You go to a store. You don't whip out the duct tape, hammer and rusty nails.

All crafting should be removed, it just doesn't belong.

If I had to guess, they just slapped something together over the weekend after they axed the robot mechanics.

Just another boneheaded decision made by people who don't understand the genre at all.
 
Not a fan of a great many design choices on part of CRPR, but to counterpoint everyone who argues that there should be survival mechanics, many different ammo types and other such features characteristic of games such as Fallout, Stalker or Metro – there's a simple factor to consider: it all takes place in a non-post-apocaliptic city setting where you can go buy more ammo or medkits from a vending machine or a store around any given corner. Factors such as ammo scrarcity, thirst, inventory management et cetera are practically non-existent in such a gameworld and CDPR was correct to recognise that. Having said that I do think it's all balanced way too simplistically, allowing to carry way too much ammo at once and so on, but that's part of the direction they'd chosen.
Finally, an an answer to a question which I am asking to myself from the beginning - why this game is so bad. It is not, it is how it supposed to be. It is simply not a game for me with all this simplified mechanics. Too bad I didn't know that before purchasing.
 
I don't know that I'd categorize it as a HUGE mistake, but it does irk me that SMGs, precision rifles, and assault rifles share ammo as it gives me less incentive to use anything but the best DPS copy of any one of those gun types that I own at any given moment.

I'd rather those three were diversified and ammo were a bit more limited (Borderlands-like) so I'd have a reason to break out some other guns more often.

Right now I play around with various guns just to have something different to do.
 
None of that crap have any business being in Cyberpunk. You want guns and ammo? You go to a store. You don't whip out the duct tape, hammer and rusty nails.

All crafting should be removed, it just doesn't belong.

If I had to guess, they just slapped something together over the weekend after they axed the robot mechanics.

Just another boneheaded decision made by people who don't understand the genre at all.
Lol, I wouldn't say all crafting should be removed. You could make an argument that a tech junkie class could pull up a crafting bench and make mods to their new arm implant or gun they just purchased on the fly with no issue.

The issue becomes, as you mentioned, the genre blending and mistaking cyberpunk as a post-apocalypse survival. The latter is something beyond the scope of this genre. It would be a boneheaded move to try and implement it across all genres just because it happens to be the in thing at this moment. That would be just a senseless cash grab. If you want that in the game, look for the appropriate mod.
 
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