Geralt's Memory in W3

[Glaroug.531]

Yes, it seems to be clear in TW2 as well. If you recall Triss' conversations with Dethmold and Philippa, her conversation with Dethmold is somewhat adversarial, while with Philippa she talks as if she seeks some guidance from a superior. I do not really see her attempt to clear Gerald's name as purely personal. She is too old for that. It is simply very prudent for her to get Gerald out of the picture, and stop him from pursuing Letho. I am sure the potion she wanted to brew from the rose of remembrance had nothing to do with restoring Gerald's memories, but with a mind-control. As I see it her main goal in TW2 was to protect the Lodge.

Hmmm...That is very astute. If she succeeded in this "mind control" Triss could have her cake and eat it too (what an idiotic expression).

I'm reminded of the scene in the first game where Triss is talking to Phillipa(?) in the mirror. "Never let your witcher guess what you hide from him..." To think Triss had the nerve to question my motives for giving Alvin to Shani!

 

[ricc1]

I am sure the potion she wanted to brew from the rose of remembrance had nothing to do with restoring Gerald's memories, but with a mind-control. As I see it her main goal in TW2 was to protect the Lodge.

I disagree, if Triss had wanted to charm/mind control Geralt, she could have done it immediately,

Spoiler

just like Philippa had done to poor Saskia

.

Spoiler

It took about 5 seconds for Philippa, all she needed was just one single petal (from the rose of remembrance) and a magical kiss. Triss could have done the same to Geralt, If she really wanted to charm him.

But that's just my personal opinion.

 

[Kallelinski]

@ Kallelinski: Triss never had a reason to really dislike the Lodge until that point, or one to confide in Geralt.

Uff, now you got me. I mean even if the games are just an adaption (or an inofficial sequel in my view), she didn't have an amnesia. She had several reasons to dislike, even hate and left the lodge, who knows what happened through the games in those meetings, in which she was present.

The lodge might have some good goals like uniting the North into one kingdom (with them as rulers of course), but their means are just wrong, but she was part of them anyway and you can't tell me she didn't know anything about that at all. The lodge actually started to mistrust her because of her relationship to Geralt, that's even more ironic, because she also didn't trust him entirely as we have already seen.

She refused to confide in Geralt entirely, although her affection for him is undeniable (in both media), and was holding back information from him, the question is only how much and if it was personally or officially. At the end of Lady of the Lake she is actually afraid that Geralt might not forgive her for what she did or not did, escpecially if Yennefer is around, so that's maybe why she is holding it back, especially because nobody else could inform him otherwise obviously, therefore i would go for personal, but official is also plausible as Wichat showed.
If the lodge had not stopped inviting her to the meetings, i would even bet that she would be still a member of them, assuming the lodge wasn't disbanded.

I disagree, if Triss had wanted to charmed/mind control Geralt, she could have done it immediately, just like Philippa had done to poor Saskia.

Spoiler

It took about 5 seconds for Philippa, all she needed was just one single petal (from the rose of remembrance) and a magical kiss. Triss could have done the same to Geralt, If she really wanted to charm him.

But that's just my personal opinion.

Yeah, but it was also kinda convenient that the rose was a symbol of eternal love, maybe she feared that Geralt's recurring memories of Yen could influence their established relationship, so again, who knows what would have happened.

 

[vivaxardas2015]

I disagree, if Triss had wanted to charm/mind control Geralt, she could have done it immediately,

Spoiler

just like Philippa had done to poor Saskia

.

Spoiler

It took about 5 seconds for Philippa, all she needed was just one single petal (from the rose of remembrance) and a magical kiss. Triss could have done the same to Geralt, If she really wanted to charm him.

But that's just my personal opinion.

Triss is nowhere as powerful as Philippa. Plus, Saskia was in a very vulnerable state. It was not a big deal, and a sure way for a less capable sorceress to brew a potion and to give it to Gerald. He was so adamant about recovering his memories, that he would have drunk it without hesitation. I don't see any reason to believe that a rose of remembrance can restore memory, except Triss telling me so. But I have evidence in the game that a rose of remembrance can make even a dragon a thrall practically worshiping her enchanter. So I believe Gerald should be grateful to Letho - by kidnapping Triss Letho actually saved Gerald from her.

 

[wichat]

If the rose of rememberance make recover one's memories... how could Phillipa use it to make an enchantment that makes Saskia forget her honorable goals and act against them will Phillipa (as killing that noble)?
If those roses actually return memory, why Phillipa used in Saskia?
And why Cedric does not speak of them to Geralt but instead, he indicates to other means for recovering it?

/>

The more we argue about it more I suspect Triss />

 

[cmdr_silverbolt]

Hey, hands off the emperor! Why all this animosity? What did he do to you to be so nasty??? One little friendly neighborly massacre of the mages is not such a big of a deal to get all unloving on him, and a small invasion from time to time is always good to keep things interesting. You people should get used to it already. And, as Henselt said, after all, it is good to have a neighbor who knows how to fight. />/>

That doesn't make sense because in one scenario Geralt can choose to leave Roche and the chase to go away with her. Why would she do it then?

@ Kallelinski: I think it's possible for someone to have self-promoting or self-protecting inclinations, and still be in love with someone. I don't think Triss knew of all of the Lodge's plan, like she didn't know why Phillipa was in Vergen, and both Phillipa and Sile were shown to keep Saskia in check by working together; there's clearly a hierarchy here.

 

[adridu59]

Rise of rememberance primary use isnt to control people, it's just that Philippa used it with a kiss + the other ingredient coming from the mine under Vergen which i dont remember the name.

 

[vivaxardas2015]

That doesn't make sense because in one scenario Geralt can choose to leave Roche and the chase to go away with her. Why would she do it then?

First, it happens after she offers to find a rose of remembrance. She couldn't be sure he would agree to this, and the potion would guarantee that he does what she wants in case he refuses. Plus even in this case to make Gerald her thrall who worships her and forgets about Yen, would be to her benefit.

Rise of rememberance primary use isnt to control people, it's just that Philippa used it with a kiss + the other ingredient coming from the mine under Vergen which i dont remember the name.

What's is a source of this assessment? And, in any case, it is not relevant. The primarily use of the arsenic is to poison rats, but people use it to commit murders quite often. Plus, I don't really see any benefits Triss would get by helping Gerald to recover his memories. Quite to the contrary, I would say.

 

[Kallelinski]

I think it's possible for someone to have self-promoting or self-protecting inclinations, and still be in love with someone. I don't think Triss knew of all of the Lodge's plan, like she didn't know why Phillipa was in Vergen, and both Phillipa and Sile were shown to keep Saskia in check by working together; there's clearly a hierarchy here.

Then you have to question her participation in that secret organization at all, what's the point in being a member of that secret organization, if she doesn't even take part of it? She even says that she was always invited until the lodge began to distrust her because of her evermore complicated relationship with Geralt. Hell, she is even a founding member, so she already knew how it goes, and Philippa & Sile were already in the books the heads of the lodge especially Philippa, only Francesca stood up to them. You, the player, just didn't know it yet, well, nobody told you so.

Also in that last conversation with her in Loc Muinne,

Spoiler

she doesn't look much surprised by the fact that the lodge was behind it, everybody would assume it was Emhyr's plan from the start, but apparently it was not.
Of course she says she was just manipulated by them, but "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me", i didn't hear that excuse for the first time.

Didn't she actually tried to port to Vergen, because Philippa was there? I think Philippa even mentioned this.

 

[cmdr_silverbolt]

@ vivaxardas: We can certainly assume all sorts of stuff about character intentions with enough plausibility. I don't doubt that she would try to make him forget about Yen, but my view is that she is motivated by selfishness to an extent- even she wouldn't want Geralt to be used as a puppet by the Lodge.

@ Kallelinski: well, like I said- self-promoting (ambitious) and self-preservation. Also, she speaks to Phillipa from Sile's scope (which Phillipa mentions she couldn't possibly be authorized to use) and finds out about Vergen.

 

[vivaxardas2015]

Also, as I remember from in-game conversations (need to play again to learn which ones) Triss knew full well from the start that the Lodge was behind Demovend's assassination. All surprises started for her when Foltest was killed, and she lost her position she worked to achieve for 5 years. She simply had no idea what was going on, and whether the lodge screwed her, or somebody is screwing with the Lodge. I believe the sorceresses eventually figured out what was going on after attempt on Henselt, but it was too late to pin it on Nilfgaard. Plus, Phillipa had an unexpected complication with Radovid. All they could hope for is to find and kill Letho before the summit. The dragon was at hand in case Letho testifies, and shit hits the fan. If this happens, the dragon was to kill everyone in Loch Muinne to cover it all up, as Sile tells Gerald, before decorating the walls by her intestines.

 

[Kallelinski]

[...] even she wouldn't want Geralt to be used as a puppet by the Lodge.

Too bad in that last conversation she admits that the lodge fed you select information through her, they even twisted facts, so by not revealing her participation to Geralt, she even endangered him again.

well, like I said- self-promoting (ambitious) and self-preservation.

She didn't need to be part of the lodge in the first place, but Wichat already explained some reasons why she was nevertheless a member of them, and self-promoting? She also didn't need the lodge for her profession, she was even before a counselor of a king and if she despise the lodge so much, why didn't she just tell Geralt about it?
Geralt would be the last person that would betray her.

As i mentioned it in the other thread, perhaps she is gonna be an important member or even the head of the new conclave, so she could actually change something now in the way she wants it.

Makes me wonder now, the lodge didn't invite her anymore, but wasn't that a risk? She knew much about the lodge, wouldn't it be better, if the lodge make her disappear or even kill her? You know, dead people can't talk. How come the cunning Philippa didn't thought about that?

Also, she speaks to Phillipa from Sile's scope (which Phillipa mentions she couldn't possibly be authorized to use) and finds out about Vergen.

Not in my game, she was talking to Dethmold, and nevertheless she tried to teleport to Vergen and iirc Philippa mentioned it towards Geralt.

All surprises started for her when Foltest was killed, and she lost her position she worked to achieve for 5 years. She simply had no idea what was going on, and whether the lodge screwed her, or somebody is screwing with the Lodge.

Yup.

 

[cmdr_silverbolt]

I feel like a weirdo for going on about this character in two threads. I don't care, she can be however it makes sense to CDPR. Byeeee.

 

[vongraudenz]

Makes me wonder now, the lodge didn't invite her anymore, but wasn't that a risk? She knew much about the lodge, wouldn't it be better, if the lodge make her disappear or even kill her? You know, dead people can't talk. How come the cunning Philippa didn't thought about that?

That might be the reason the Lodge did not rescue her from any of the perils she faced in Loc Muinne. Let somebody else kill her, the less blood on your hands, the fewer explanations you have to give.

 

[kjcain143]

im a bit confused..

when i freed Triss in Loc Muinne she told Geralt that she didnt give any information to the nilfgaardians about the Lodge but before reaching Triss.. the nilfgaardian general i fought told geralt that triss confessed about the Lodge.

So.. is Triss lying again or that general was just toying with Geralt?
since the emperor already knows about the Lodge from the info they extracted from Yen.

 

[vivaxardas2015]

If you do not go after Triss, right after the summit nilfgaardians let her go. So it seems reasonable to conclude that she gave them what they wanted, their mission was accomplished, and they had no reason to kill or harm her. I believe she is lying, as she was deceiving Gerald the whole time.

 

[GuyNwah]

But the Nilfgaardians did not just let Triss go. Letho rescued her. The Nilfgaardians would certainly have put her to death as soon as she was of no further use, but they were caught unaware by their own assassin.

Since the Nilfgaardians already knew all the pertinent details of the Lodge, Triss's value as a captive was as a hostage, as bait for Geralt, and in preventing her from testifying at the summit. That way they could present whatever fabrications they wanted as if they came from her, without fear of contradiction. Even if the vicious Renuald and Shilard were not lying about Triss's interrogation, she had nothing of value to tell them, and she would have to be silenced in order to prevent their lies from being called out.

 

[vivaxardas2015]

I don't see when they had time for killing her. Shilard and Letho were on a summit, then the dragon attacked, and all hell broke loose. I don't think Shilard would have wasted his time, with the dragon and the massacre, to return to the camp and kill Triss. Normal rational people in such a situation prepare to embark before the main event, and Shilard looks pretty rational to me. The mission was accomplished, nothing to be gained by killing Triss, especially in the middle of a massacre. The mob would do it for them admirably. If they really had wanted to kill her, they would have done it before the summit. But, as Vernon said they ran like hell, probably cutting Letho loose on their way to their ship. After that I would guess Letho returned, found Triss, and saved her from the mob. And, somehow, I doubt that Letho would want to fight the entire nilfgaardian mission just to save Triss. He abandoned her in the ravines as a troll food. Why on Earth would he decide now to fight his own employers in order to save her?
This is one of the instances where either timeline of events does not make sense, or Triss lying like a dog again, blaming, as usual, nilfgaardians for being the bad guys.

 

[Glaroug.531]

I believe she is lying, as she was deceiving Gerald the whole time.

O, I don't want her her around me at all. If she's not outright lying to me she's feeding me processed information. Maybe its because I didn't read the books first but I disliked that woman from the start. When I read them only I pitied her, as Frodo pitied Gollum, with a look of sadness and disgust.

I did all in my power to distance myself from that woman's paws. I don;t even want to think about how long she kept "poor" Geralt in the sick bed after his first battle with Azar. "Leave me alone Triss! I'm not your pogo-stick"

I was very frustrated when I installed TW2, and found none other than that bloody woman sleeping with me, I Geralt seemed quite at ease. "What's that Geralt? So you're a big boy now, too old to listen to stupid Glaroug?! Was Shani just some pit stop along the way, a manifestation of your fantasy to live a quite life? Triss is no good for you! Run away you white haired tit!". IN light of this, I hope Geralt regains his memory of the last games events along with his life's events.
But enough grumblings from

Glaroug the Most High

.

Triss knew full well from the start that the Lodge was behind Demovend's assassination.

It would have been a lot more useful than:

Triss: "That Sile sure is a untrustworthy".
Geralt: "Thank you Triss. Your input is priceless."

That bloody woman wants to keep me in the dark. Restore my memory? Hah! If she had her way it would be the intro to TW1 Chapter 3 for all eternity.

 

[adridu59]

@vivaxardas Benefits? She's just helping an old friend.. have something against her?

She's not involved in conspiracies like e.g Philippa, she was an early member of the Lodge and was excluded because she didn't agree with the others consp. plans.

Anyways sure you can think that everything she says is lie but yeah, it seems obvious to me that she doesnt have the same mind as the Lodge members.. plus see at the beginning she's not very pleased of seeing Sheala and so on, she didn't have any contact with the Lodge since the early days when again, she was fired because she didnt agree with the others' conspiracy plans.

Source of the assessment is the storyline, Iorveths path when you discover that Philippa did take control of Saskia.