Getting to objectives/locations w/o objective markers or quest compass

[lv-426]

Thought I start a separate thread for this particular issue:

What they should avoid at all costs or at least as much as possible is to have the player rely on objective markers exclusively when it comes to getting from point A to point B.

Dialogue or (transmitted) intel on objectives and their location should always contain specific directions ("2 kilometers north-east from [location X]/your current position"), combined with hints to prominent landmarks/company signs ("at the All Food factory") so that the player has the chance to rely on their own faculties and intuition to get there rather than just to follow markers on the HUD.

TBug, the netrunner who's assisting V and Jackie in the beginning of the gameplay demo explicitly mentions
"(Appartment) 1237 - on your right. Girl's inside."

One can only hope that's indication of how it's handled in general and with all the other dialogue as well.

Meredith Stout, the Militech corp agent provides another exemplary one:
"First exit off Skyline going towards the NID. Storm channel under the overpass - meet you there."


Almost feel stupid for asking but in this day and age where everything keeps getting dumbed down or "streamlined" to be on ALL the platforms and to reach as many audiences as possible you never know:

Does mission/quest-related dialogue or intel always contain enough specific directions, including

- (precise) estimates of distance along cardinal directions (north, east, south, west) either from a starting position or the player's current position
and/or
- pointers to prominent landmarks the objective's location is at or in close vicinity to

so that players who wish to, can find their way to objectives/locations on their own without ever having to rely on objective markers or the quest compass?

Does CP2077 even feature a map? A proper one that comes up by pressing "M", not a mini map or anything like that?

 

[Swedrami]

Yep, would be really nice to have some official word on that.

Does CP2077 even feature a map? A proper one that comes up by pressing "M", not a mini map or anything like that?

"GPS" might just be a fancier and more futuristic sounding term for "Map"?

 

[lv-426]

"GPS" might just be a fancier and more futuristic sounding term for "Map"?

Cheers, somehow I still didn't catch that during the 20+ times I watched the footage.
Could just be a case of "potato, potahto" indeed.

At least it couldn't possibly refer to any kind of mini map which of course is a good thing.

If the look of the map or rather the "GPS" isn't finalized yet and there's still room for suggestions or changes - something like the tactical wireframe layout of New York used in Crysis 2's mission briefing cutscenes should fit right in:

youtube.com/watch?v=lnBgN852aOw&t=1h39m7s

Does mission/quest-related dialogue or intel always contain enough specific directions, including

- (precise) estimates of distance along cardinal directions (north, east, south, west) either from a starting position or the player's current position
and/or
- pointers to prominent landmarks the objective's location is at or in close vicinity to

so that players who wish to, can find their way to objectives/locations on their own without ever having to rely on objective markers or the quest compass?

Anyone (RED)?

 

[pf2222]

Well, I dont want to have a marker but being told and finding that goal alone in this harsh world is a yes for me

 

[TwinsUltra64]

I can't stand questmarkers or waypoints, because for me is like an insult, the game tells you to "Find" something and yet you already have the marker that tells you where's hidden, then what's the point of "FIND" if you are telling me where it is?
I hope CPRED will get rid of this annoying feature.
I love when the game doesn't handhold me.

 

[Gun_Show]

As long as we have a log we can interact with to bring up the directions again so we can refresh our memory after coming back from a save game 2-3 days later, then getting rid of quest markers is fine.

 

[TwinsUltra64]

As long as we have a log we can interact with to bring up the directions again so we can refresh our memory after coming back from a save game 2-3 days later, then getting rid of quest markers is fine.

The game should have a log section where it tells you what to do, without telling me where to go via on screen Questpoints/Waypoint

 

[mhl333]

The game can have quest markers IF they don't point exactly to where you need to go.

Example of good marker is when your quest tells you
1) "go to hotel X on street Y, there you need to find a guy called Z" and the quest marker points to the hotel but not to exact room where this guy Z is,
2) "the guy called Z stays in some hotel somewhere on a street Y" and the quest marker points to the street where you may find more than 1 hotel, you can search them all or you can try to ask some random NPCs for a tip. If you get more details where to search your marker eventually can change position to more accurate but still not to specific room.

And for me those quest markers could work like a regular navi, you have a quest, you need to get somewhere, you know the name of the street/building/area, put it in your navi and there you go. But it should not go any further than what is written and know for your character at that time.

 

[TwinsUltra64]

The game can have quest markers IF they don't point exactly to where you need to go.

Example of good marker is when your quest tells you
1) "go to hotel X on street Y, there you need to find a guy called Z" and the quest marker points to the hotel but not to exact room where this guy Z is,
2) "the guy called Z stays in some hotel somewhere on a street Y" and the quest marker points to the street where you may find more than 1 hotel, you can search them all or you can try to ask some random NPCs for a tip. If you get more details where to search your marker eventually can change position to more accurate but still not to specific room.

And for me those quest markers could work like a regular navi, you have a quest, you need to get somewhere, you know the name of the street/building/area, put it in your navi and there you go. But it should not go any further than what is written and know for your character at that time.

I still see it as handholding, I want to find a specific Hotel all by myself and I want to find the objective all by myself, if the game tells me where to go, then It won't be fun anymore because the game is playing for you, at this point why they don't give us an on rail experience like Time Crisis, House of the dead?
I hope you understand what I mean

 

[mhl333]

I still see it as handholding, I want to find a specific Hotel all by myself and I want to find the objective all by myself, if the game tells me where to go, then It won't be fun anymore because the game is playing for you, at this point why they don't give us an on rail experience like Time Crisis, House of the dead?
I hope you understand what I mean

I could understand no markers in fantasy games, but not in si-fi where you have high tech etc.
I fantasy games I really would like to see a static map with POI that could lead me through world without any markers, but in a game where you have a futuristic city it is completely understandable for me to have some kind navigation.

 

[Hoplite_22]

I still see it as handholding, I want to find a specific Hotel all by myself and I want to find the objective all by myself, if the game tells me where to go, then It won't be fun anymore because the game is playing for you, at this point why they don't give us an on rail experience like Time Crisis, House of the dead?
I hope you understand what I mean

no, not really, if you have the directions there is no reason that your on-board gps wouldn't pick it up like google can now and show you a way to get there.

 

[lelxrv]

I love the games that don't hold your hand. Even knowing how frustrating they can be at times. But it's too late for that. It would require radically different approach to game design. Just spelling out location won't make navigation reasonably accessible.

 

[TwinsUltra64]

no, not really, if you have the directions there is no reason that your on-board gps wouldn't pick it up like google can now and show you a way to get there.

The problem I have is the game will play for you, like I said before the game tells you to find something and you already know where it is, thanks to the markers that find stuff for you. The game tells you to find someone and bam You already know where it is, again, the game play for you, instead of you playing the game.

I don't like waypoints/questmarkers at least I hope CDPred will give me the option to disable it, I played the Witcher 3 without map markers, and I had a great experience so, why I shouldn't be allowed to have a great experience with Cyberpunk2077?

Post automatically merged: Aug 30, 2018

I could understand no markers in fantasy games, but not in si-fi where you have high tech etc.
I fantasy games I really would like to see a static map with POI that could lead me through world without any markers, but in a game where you have a futuristic city it is completely understandable for me to have some kind navigation.

At least having options to disable it would be fine.

 

[Hoplite_22]

yeah, and i still don't agree that's "playing the game for you" We aren't talking about a ubisoft map with every secret and finable item/mission marked on it for you, we are talking about being able find our way in an unfamiliar city.

 

[mhl333]

At least having options to disable it would be fine.

As I wrote before, those question marks for me could work like a navi, you put it to navi and you go to the place. You don't want it? Simply don't use navi. And please don't forget what I wrote - question marks should point no further than the information you have.

PS It shouldn't be a part of settings in menu, it should be an ingame feature.

 

[TwinsUltra64]

As I wrote before, those question marks for me could work like a navi, you put it to navi and you go to the place. You don't want it? Simply don't use navi. And please don't forget what I wrote - question marks should point no further than the information you have.

PS It shouldn't be a part of settings in menu, it should be an ingame feature.

I agree with marking the location via map menu then it tells you where to go, and if you don't want to mark it, you're free to find the objective all by Yourself (If that is what You mean).

 

[The_Cr3am_of_H3ll]

Only TES III: Morrowind quest style or Journal/Log PLEASE

Still it's the Future, you can't really ignore that the GPS is made to take you near a especific road or area. What I imagined was this: Every road has a name, or an area or even a big structure, the GPS takes you to that place, but then the player has to find the especific place. The Devs could had Door Numbers or Names so that the player could better identify the places.

And they could use the GPS to create encounters like, (I'm predicting how the Scavs work lel) one of the ways that Scavengers kidnapp people is by scrambling they're Car GPS so that it takes them to an ambush, the player could have to face treats like this.

 

[TwinsUltra64]

Only TES III: Morrowind quest style or Journal/Log PLEASE

Still it's the Future, you can't really ignore that the GPS is made to take you near a especific road or area. What I imagined was this: Every road has a name, or an area or even a big structure, the GPS takes you to that place, but then the player has to find the especific place. The Devs could had Door Numbers or Names so that the player could better identify the places.

And they could use the GPS to create encounters like, (I'm predicting how the Scavs work lel) one of the ways that Scavengers kidnapp people is by scrambling they're Car GPS so that it takes them to an ambush, the player could have to face treats like this.

Again, as I said before I'm cool with this, I'm not cool when the game tells me to find something and the game already tells you where's hidden.
I'm all for find the location(If It works like GTA, where You leave a mark in the map and the map tells you where to go, but If I don't then give me the freedom to find the place all by myself) but finding a person or a specific objective is up to you, the game(GPS) won't help you anymore, or I'm even happier if they approach Morrowind's style of navigation.

 

[Swedrami]

Does mission/quest-related dialogue or intel always contain enough specific directions, including

- (precise) estimates of distance along cardinal directions (north, east, south, west) either from a starting position or the player's current position
and/or
- pointers to prominent landmarks the objective's location is at or in close vicinity to

so that players who wish to, can find their way to objectives/locations on their own without ever having to rely on objective markers or the quest compass?

Does CP2077 even feature a map? A proper one that comes up by pressing "M", not a mini map or anything like that?

@Benzenzimmern
Care to answer this gentleman's question too, while you're at it?
If you can at this point, of course.

 

[lv-426]

Does mission/quest-related dialogue or intel always contain enough specific directions, including

- (precise) estimates of distance along cardinal directions (north, east, south, west) either from a starting position or the player's current position
and/or
- pointers to prominent landmarks the objective's location is at or in close vicinity to

so that players who wish to, can find their way to objectives/locations on their own without ever having to rely on objective markers or the quest compass?

Does CP2077 even feature a map? A proper one that comes up by pressing "M", not a mini map or anything like that?

@Benzenzimmern
Care to answer this gentleman's question too, while you're at it?
If you can at this point, of course.

Did you just assume my gender?