Getting to objectives/locations w/o objective markers or quest compass

[EngryEngineer]

I don't know, there aren't any street signs, the world is clearly designed in such a way that assumed that citizens are using navigational assistance of some sort, so I don't really see how having that for the player is "hand holding."

I've lived in the same place for 3 years, I don't drive anywhere new without GPS. I don't need to cripple myself in a game that can provide a good in-game explanation for nav assist just to feel like more of a gamer, I've got better things to spend mental resources on.

 

[Loostreaks]

Npc should ALWAYS give navigation instructions...it's incredibly stupid when someone sends you to retrieve an object without telling where it is, and you discover game is 100% unplayable without journal clairvoyance.
As Tolkien, the great worldbuilder, would say, "the magic is broken", you are pulled out of experience.

For "hardcore" explorers: Ping in a certain radius appears on the map.

For people who don't mind quest markers: activate quest, and arrow/visual directions appear on the screen.

Compass is more suited for open, wide terrain, mini map works poorly in vertical environment.

 

[Tree_Fox]

Options, my dudes, options!

Make the quest marker default as on. If you want a more hardcore experience where you rely on sights, sounds, and pinpoint navigation from NPC's, turn off the waypoint.

Some people that aren't as... RPG-literate might be used to being handed the info in the form of waypoints. Not having those might cause these folks to leave the game early when they get frustrated. Don't want that.

 

[CybrisPunk]

no, not really, if you have the directions there is no reason that your on-board gps wouldn't pick it up like google can now and show you a way to get there.

you can mark it self. same as in google maps.

 

[BaalNergal]

Does mission/quest-related dialogue or intel always contain enough specific directions, including

- (precise) estimates of distance along cardinal directions (north, east, south, west) either from a starting position or the player's current position
and/or
- pointers to prominent landmarks the objective's location is at or in close vicinity to

so that players who wish to, can find their way to objectives/locations on their own without ever having to rely on objective markers or the quest compass?

Probably not. Real life often doesn't either. You'd be surprised how many people live in cities who do very little navigation without GPS.

Does CP2077 even feature a map? A proper one that comes up by pressing "M", not a mini map or anything like that?

Probably. We just haven't seen it yet.

Did you just assume my gender?

Do you really care?

I don't know, there aren't any street signs, the world is clearly designed in such a way that assumed that citizens are using navigational assistance of some sort, so I don't really see how having that for the player is "hand holding."

I've lived in the same place for 3 years, I don't drive anywhere new without GPS. I don't need to cripple myself in a game that can provide a good in-game explanation for nav assist just to feel like more of a gamer, I've got better things to spend mental resources on.

Pretty much, this. It's supposed to be a living, high-tech city. A lack of navigation assistance undermines that.

Npc should ALWAYS give navigation instructions...it's incredibly stupid when someone sends you to retrieve an object without telling where it is, and you discover game is 100% unplayable without journal clairvoyance.
As Tolkien, the great worldbuilder, would say, "the magic is broken", you are pulled out of experience.

For "hardcore" explorers: Ping in a certain radius appears on the map.

For people who don't mind quest markers: activate quest, and arrow/visual directions appear on the screen.

Compass is more suited for open, wide terrain, mini map works poorly in vertical environment.

How much navigation do you do in real life without some form of navigation assistance? Do you always get clear, precise directions on how to drive everywhere from people? Or do you end up using something like Google maps or a GPS?

Same thing applies here.

 

[Suhiira]

I must be weird.
The only time I've ever used a GPS was during the first Gulf war, and it didn't work (the satellites were still being deployed at the time and there were times/areas where there was no coverage) so we went back to ye olde map and compass.

Since then I've used maps, addresses, and occasionally directions from people. And while I may not always use the most "efficient" route to get where I'm going I've never yet failed to get there.

Night City is a CITY people, I'd be amazed if CDPR doesn't make a city map part of the standard info/things you can access via your cyberware. And wouldn't be at all surprised to see street signs with the names/numbers of streets and even addresses on buildings.

 

[4RM3D]

CP2077 is a futuristic game, so it makes sense to have GPS (unless technology was lost). However, having quest objective markers is just simplifying the game too much. What would be a better option, is to just have GPS and then having to scan the area to find the person you're looking for or anything else out of the ordinary. That's actually incorporating tech into the game, instead of having a magical marker.

 

[Loostreaks]

How much navigation do you do in real life without some form of navigation assistance? Do you always get clear, precise directions on how to drive everywhere from people? Or do you end up using something like Google maps or a GPS?

Same thing applies here.

It's not just about "realism", it's about psychology behind what makes exploration rewarding/addictive/etc.
Good exploration is more than just coming across "stuff" every 45 seconds. By using direct and satisfying visual/audio stimulus, you create addictive loop that makes the player do it, again and again.
The same applies to good loot systems.
Has no one noticed how oddly satisfying is that sound when gold hits the ground in Diablo? When you stumble across some vista in Skyrim or finish a dungeon, that sound that briefly plays like? Or interesting way in how Zelda places Korok seeds for player to discover?
I'm pretty sure if you ran a neural scan on player's brain, you'd see an endorphine spike.
Minimap strips player attention of all of that, turning whole thing eventually into busywork.
It's the difference between a Rockstar/Ubisoft/CDPR exploration ( that just places things inbetween every x meters) and Bethesda/last Zelda that relies on audio and visuals, placement to always tease the player.
Also exploration in Night City should have a certain feel to it: danger, unpredictability, opportunity, etc. Walking around the narrow alleys at night, should feel intense, never knowing what's next around the corner.
Good Sound design in particular is important here, to grab player's attention and in sync follow mood swings: intense/violence, relief, discover a secret, levity, etc.

 

[evilhippo]

I can't stand questmarkers or waypoints, because for me is like an insult, the game tells you to "Find" something and yet you already have the marker that tells you where's hidden, then what's the point of "FIND" if you are telling me where it is?
I hope CPRED will get rid of this annoying feature.
I love when the game doesn't handhold me.

In 2077 we will have more, not less capability than in 2018. We have GPS on our mobile phones now, so waypoint markers are just Google Maps projected in a HUD. Waypoints for locations & allies is a must.

However, markers for things we would have no idea where they are, that of course makes no sense. But for finding people who want to be found (or who don't want to be found but our netrunner has hacked their GPS locator), it makes zero sense not to have that in-game.

 

[Odinsauge]

I don't mind quest markers that much. I grew up without them and that was OK even if it was hard to find. But nowadays, I don't have that much time for games anymore, so finding things faster is ok for me. Also in an fantasy environment it is a bit easier to find stuff as the world is more or less flat. In a big city that has lots of vertical space it can be a bit cumbersome.

Sure, I don't need something that points directly on to the destination or some HUD GPS stuff, a marker on a Map is ok for me. And maybe an indicator if it is above or below me. GW2 that has lots of vertical levels lately has a small indicator on each map marker that shows you if it is above or below your current position.

 

[Suhiira]

Also exploration in Night City should have a certain feel to it: danger, unpredictability, opportunity, etc. Walking around the narrow alleys at night, should feel intense, never knowing what's next around the corner.

As you said, sound/music is vital to creating this mood in a player. I REALLY hate games that rely on "jump scares", VERY lazy design.

But to attempt to stay on topic ...
CP2077 is one of the few games that could justify quest markers based on it's tech/lore. But even that would have limits. You really think a black market ripperdoc selling illegal hardware is going to be easy to find without both knowing who to talk to and getting precise directions (or a guide) to whatever hole they're hiding in?

Also quest markers are useless if you don't have a classic minimap, and I can't think of a single reason you'd have one in CP2077. Again, sure, one that indicates streets and buildings, but the precise location of the desk that has whatever you're looking for?