Golds that are (have the same effect as)/give scorch really need a nerf

[NerdExtrodinare]

Golds that are (have the same effect as)/give scorch really need a nerf

To clarify I mean the golds that give you a copy of scorch or simply have it's effect.

I know it "targets the entire board" but that's not much of a downside because (assuming you're not a moron) you don't put them in decks with high attack cards and you're golden. I'm really tired of facing a scorch that also gives 10/8/12 value.

Igni's annoying but is only worth 4 and can be played around. Most of the time. I still hate Igni though.

 

[devivre]

The first half of the thread title is a bit confusing.

As for scorch: I'd prefer cards like that to have a doomed tag. The basic concept of this card IMO is fine though.

 

[NerdExtrodinare]

The first half of the thread title is a bit confusing.

As for scorch: I'd prefer cards like that to have a doomed tag. The basic concept of this card IMO is fine though.

The card concept isn't bad, (though I'd love doomed) it's having to deal with four of them in a single game is when I just want the card banned. Especially when it's from golds that have their own value independently of the value of scorch.

And apparently I can't edit the title to make it more clear.

 

[Zefyris]

So you want one of the only proper counter to super greedy deck to be nerfed? So that this game simply turn into a race about who put the more strength on the board and carry over the most without even caring about the opponent? Schirru exchanges another of your cards for the scorch, meaning that the real scorch value is the value of the scorched target- the value of the transformed card. If the transformed card was 9 value for example, the it's Scorched target-9, so it's nothing extraordinary most of the time, as even a 15 strength target actually values +6. especially since the player announces that he has that scorch.
Villentretenmerth has a 3 turn timer so you can either play around or lock him. Or debomb him if the highest unit on your side is lower than 8.
What unit gives 12 value on top of a scorch? Can't think of any.

 

[Karajorma]

I completely agree with you there. If you prevent people from being able to scorch then the game will just degenerate. Cause as soon as we get rid of scorch everyone will start playing with resets in their deck and then they'll need to be nerfed as well. If you stick all your hopes on cards you've buffed for the 3rd round you should run the risk that someone can kill or cripple those cards. Otherwise the game isn't worth playing.

 

[Otterherder]

This card beat me, nerf pls.

Seriously though, I wonder if scorch was changed to something like "damage the highest unit(s) on the board by it's current strength" might not be an interesting change. It would still work as it does now for the most part, but quen and armor would be buffed. It's not like many decks would be able to run multiple copies of quen, and if they did, their power would be diminished. Also, few NR decks run armor. It's just a thought.

 

[Karajorma]

No, I didn't mention scorch, I mentioned golds that do scorch+, but everyone seems content to ignore that. That's why I haven't tried to counter any arguments, I don't respond to strawmen.

To simplify, Shirru isn't a problem. And neither is Borkh.

So you want one of the only proper counter to super greedy deck to be nerfed? So that this game simply turn into a race about who put the more strength on the board and carry over the most without even caring about the opponent? Schirru exchanges another of your cards for the scorch, meaning that the real scorch value is the value of the scorched target- the value of the transformed card. If the transformed card was 9 value for example, the it's Scorched target-9, so it's nothing extraordinary most of the time, as even a 15 strength target actually values +6. especially since the player announces that he has that scorch.
Villentretenmerth has a 3 turn timer so you can either play around or lock him. Or debomb him if the highest unit on your side is lower than 8.
What unit gives 12 value on top of a scorch? Can't think of any.

You have completely failed to counter these arguments. No strawmen. Explain why those cards aren't fine beyond complaining about not liking being scotched. No one likes being hit by those cards. But you haven't given a good reason why they are OP and need to be nerfed yet.

 

[NerdExtrodinare]

I legitimately simply missed Zefyris' post in the crap show of everyone else talking about scorch. And Henry's is a conclusion, not an argument.

So you want one of the only proper counter to super greedy deck to be nerfed? So that this game simply turn into a race about who put the more strength on the board and carry over the most without even caring about the opponent? Schirru exchanges another of your cards for the scorch, meaning that the real scorch value is the value of the scorched target- the value of the transformed card. If the transformed card was 9 value for example, the it's Scorched target-9, so it's nothing extraordinary most of the time, as even a 15 strength target actually values +6. especially since the player announces that he has that scorch. Villentretenmerth has a 3 turn timer so you can either play around or lock him. Or debomb him if the highest unit on your side is lower than 8. What unit gives 12 value on top of a scorch? Can't think of any.

Ok, let's start with Schirru. Your logic there is nonsense. That would only be valid if you lost tempo. You don't. You transform the card from your hand so you don't lose the value of it. You can't play that 9 now, but that doesn't make the scorch a -9, by that logic all scorches are -9 because you could have put a 9 value card in instead of the scorch. Even better you could turn something you don't need, or a bronze into a silver. You can have put in a clear sky's, not need it, and get a scorch out of it. So it's still an unkillable (unless they have shackles yes) 10 value card that gives you scorch. So it's horrendously valuable.

Yes, there's counter play, but that doesn't mean he's not too powerful. You already have to spread out your strong units to deal with igni so your debombing is not going to work most of the time. So you're pretty much sol unless you have shackles.

And as for the 12 I was in my memory combining Ethne with Saskia (but they always come together so that's not surprising.)

Part of it comes from it killing -all- the units of those strength, and the fact that the elves have a lot of units that divvy damage around so they can set you up to just get destroyed with scorch. Especially with our dragon friend.

And just to be clear my main deck isn't a buff deck (outside of the Reavers) but it's the mass targeting that makes dealing with more than one in a round nearly impossible.

 

[4RM3D]

Okay, this thread went in all directions, except to the discussion it was made for. I've cleaned up the thread. Please, no more off-topic posts, LOL-posts (no matter how funny) or personal attacks. Let's try this again.

 

[Archpriest]

My apologies, I thought that was obvious. Will post later in detail.

 

[Amaroc]

I think scorch is fine as it is, but there should be a way to counter it. For example, I really think Quen ought to protect against Scorch.

 

[panerola]

One very good counter for scorch is playing an spy. If your cards don't go beyond the spy, you are safe. Try also not to align the high cards and play it around. And have .... card advantage. I play a deck with Eithne, scorch, schirru and Gerald igni, and those are the best counters. Also letho, for NG. Hope it helps.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

So you want one of the only proper counter to super greedy deck to be nerfed? So that this game simply turn into a race about who put the more strength on the board and carry over the most without even caring about the opponent? Schirru exchanges another of your cards for the scorch, meaning that the real scorch value is the value of the scorched target- the value of the transformed card. If the transformed card was 9 value for example, the it's Scorched target-9, so it's nothing extraordinary most of the time, as even a 15 strength target actually values +6. especially since the player announces that he has that scorch.
Villentretenmerth has a 3 turn timer so you can either play around or lock him. Or debomb him if the highest unit on your side is lower than 8.
What unit gives 12 value on top of a scorch? Can't think of any.

I don't think your logic there about Schirru transforming the card in your hand works. Why would you rate the value of your scorch minus the card you transformed?

 

[Burza46]

To clarify I mean the golds that give you a copy of scorch or simply have it's effect.

I know it "targets the entire board" but that's not much of a downside because (assuming you're not a moron) you don't put them in decks with high attack cards and you're golden. I'm really tired of facing a scorch that also gives 10/8/12 value.

Igni's annoying but is only worth 4 and can be played around. Most of the time. I still hate Igni though.

Scorch is a card that hasn't changed in a long time, the bigger problem here is carryover and buffing one unit multiple times with scorch you can interact with this plan.

 

[Zefyris]

I don't think your logic there about Schirru transforming the card in your hand works. Why would you rate the value of your scorch minus the card you transformed?

because that's schirru's real value. Any other gold card that you play doesn't delete a card of your hand to create its effect, he does. So his value is 10+scorch value- transformed card value.
MEaning that if you scorch a 15 but used a 9 value card, he's indeed 16 value, not 25.

 

[Rayquorz]

Scorch is a card that hasn't changed in a long time, the bigger problem here is carryover and buffing one unit multiple times with scorch you can interact with this plan.

Could you elaborate a bit more on why you think buffing carryovers is a problem, rather than a feature? (that may or may not be due for some rebalancing)

 

[Zefyris]

^it's a feature that can quickly get out of hand, so when it dos, it needs either nerfs or proper counters. The later is better for the game imo, and scorch is one of them, so nerfing scorch right now would be a terrible decision.

 

[NerdExtrodinare]

Scorch is a card that hasn't changed in a long time, the bigger problem here is carryover and buffing one unit multiple times with scorch you can interact with this plan.

Once again I would like to point out my complaint is the golds that give you scorch/have the effect of scorch, not scorch itself. It when I need to deal with three scorchs in a round so it's almost literally my entire side dead that's the issue. Then the unit also gives 10, or 8, or some high value so I'm just, dead in the water.

(Though side note it is good to see developers on the forums.)

because that's schirru's real value. Any other gold card that you play doesn't delete a card of your hand to create its effect, he does. So his value is 10+scorch value- transformed card value.
MEaning that if you scorch a 15 but used a 9 value card, he's indeed 16 value, not 25.

That math is more valid, but it's still not a problem, if you'd rather have the 9 card you don't have to transform one of your cards into scorch (at least that's how I read the card, I've never played him.) And there are many times when there's a card that's -not- 9 value. And even if it is a nine value, that's still a scorch+1, another scorch is almost always a good thing. Well assuming you're not an idiot and transforming a scorch when you have the highest card.

 

[Karajorma]

But if you have the highest card on the board, Schirru is basically a dead card until the last round. If you play him earlier you actually hurt your game because you'll be forced to transform one of your cards. And if you don't have the highest card on the board, then playing him can still backfire if something changes in the next round so that you do have the highest card (for instance using Unseen Elder to eat the highest cards often makes scorch useless unless you have dimiterium as well.)

 

[Restlessdingo32]

Had you considered holding your spy or pushing to force those cards R2? You can put most decks relying on multiple scorch effects into a tight spot by doing either of these, since they tend to win R3 by stacking golds/scorch effects.

If you think a card like Schirru/Borkh hitting 20ish value is somehow overvalued some explanation is in order. Plenty of other golds can do the same, several of which are more difficult to play around.