Graphic downgrade

[PrincessCiri]

just watched the pax(?) video today and god damn it looks so good. Geralt looks amazing, his armour looks great, and I notice that the horse's movements look better than they did in the last video

I'm so excited to play the game, it looks so beautiful and the scenery is spectacular.

 

[endtherapture]

All people in this thread are doing is messing around with colours - not making textures or models (the meat of the graphical quality of the game) better, but changing the colours of the game and contrast.

This screenshot bothers me. It's like the sunlight just got color filtered through the clouds, but somehow sustained it's intensity. It looks way too pale and unnatural.

As people already said, sharpening is a cheap tool that doesn't work very well on daytime shots when the sun is shining where the glare naturally causes some blur.
Also reading the comments it struck me that wherever there's sunshine people think it's somehow cartoonish and unrealistic, but if it's darker then it's gritty and real. That's some depressing shit. You guys seriously need to go out more when it's sunny.

People are wanting the game to be dark and overcast instead of sunny which has nothing to do with a graphics downgrade but instead the weather of the game.

 

[dibadiba]

Impressive first post.

One objection, just one. I was the forum member who asked those questions. To me, to equate Marcin's yes answer - and I do give him credit, I do extend him the benefit of the doubt - but to equate what is arguably a subjective assessment to something akin to «objective data» is quite the leap of faith. Faith and reason don't mix all that well. Especially because since that answer was given, I've been shown new additional footage that's reinforced my worries. How can you possibly say that an answer from the Community manager - who, friendly, candid and competent as he undoubtedly is, can never be claimed to not be personally invested in the success of TW3 - how can you possibly say his assessment bears more weight than one-week old footage that is right there in front of you?

A Community Manager is the public face of the company here. I'd assume he was given the 'go-ahead' to answer those questions rather than just pulling them off the top of his head. I strongly disagree with those answers being his personal assessment rather than the answers he was told to give the community as the official stance/answer on the subject. I think those answers carry some weight. Until him or someone from CDProjekt says otherwise, that is their official stance on the subject and is the one I am going to keep in mind.
Also taking into account ubersampling being confirmed, and Ultra settings not being shown in videos, I'm not comfortable saying outright that the visible graphic quality differences are due to a downgrade. Ultra + Ubersampling could very well make a remarkably huge difference, as unlikely as I find that to be. As to why we aren't being shown maxed out settings, I could only speculate.

 

[JackalJ]

@endtherapture don't bother.
That argument has come up many times, yet somehow the textures are downgrade but all that has changed is indeed the color pallette and some effect added to the screenshot.
Thats why people say that the lighting and time of day has a huge impact on the looks of the game.

And yes in a way I like the 'older' screenshots more then the new sunny ones. But I doubt i want to play 200 hours in a dark and gloomy world, if I want that I'll go to the Skellige isles. Hell, even Dark Souls(2) wasn't always dark and depressing.

And I have to congratulate this thread on reaching a 100 pages. (Almost)

 

[Aedan2]

Dont understand all this need for darker, grittier, as someone said earlier, get out of the house and watch how sunny day looks. It will be great to see in the game the change between sunny and rainy, day and night, fog and all that, storms and what not. I want to see weather reallistic, and that is that sometime is beautiful day and sometimes its cloudy and depressing.

 

[endtherapture]

@endtherapture don't bother.
That argument has come up many times, yet somehow the textures are downgrade but all that has changed is indeed the color pallette and some effect added to the screenshot.
Thats why people say that the lighting and time of day has a huge impact on the looks of the game.

And yes in a way I like the 'older' screenshots more then the new sunny ones. But I doubt i want to play 200 hours in a dark and gloomy world, if I want that I'll go to the Skellige isles. Hell, even Dark Souls(2) wasn't always dark and depressing.

And I have to congratulate this thread on reaching a 100 pages. (Almost)

I haven't seen any sort of downgrade in stuff like the polygons making up the environment, or the character models, or the animations. Just people complaining about grass and how sunny it is at certain points in the day. I'll admit that Elder Blood trailer looked awful in parts however, due to worse textures.

Either way I agree with you. I would prefer a darker look to the game, but to go through a 50 hour game with no sunlight would indeed be depressing. Even the extremely dark and overcast The Witcher 1 had the interlude in the sunny and beautiful locales of Murky Waters and its surrounding regions.

 

[IsengrimR]

I think You see a downgrade like many others only because you want to see one.

I suppose then, me and so many other people are having just global delusions then.

Thing is, I do not want to see them. I want it to be 100 % alright.

But that's not true.

Look at the footage. Your argument is ever worse than what CDPR pulled.

 

[Riven-Twain]

Dont understand all this need for darker, grittier, as someone said earlier, get out of the house and watch how sunny day looks. It will be great to see in the game the change between sunny and rainy, day and night, fog and all that, storms and what not. I want to see weather reallistic, and that is that sometime is beautiful day and sometimes its cloudy and depressing.

Precisely. Even if the people of the game-world are gritty and somber, if the game-world itself is an attempt to imitate life, then there are going to be beautiful days, and dreary days. If the developers have managed to pull off that illusion, I think it should be admired. Unless some people simply want sorcerers, or the Wild Hunt to plunge the world into an eternal shadow, but that would be rather dull to render, and to play.

 

[Kishobran]

People are wanting the game to be dark and overcast instead of sunny which has nothing to do with a graphics downgrade but instead the weather of the game.

We have Witcher 1 to blame for that, where it was perpetually cloudy. Moody and gritty, but unrealistic for longer games.

 

[JackalJ]

I suppose then, me and so many other people are having just global delusions then.

Thing is, I do not want to see them. I want it to be 100 % alright.

But that's not true.

Look at the footage. Your argument is ever worse than what CDPR pulled.

This conversation isn't about saying that people who see a downgrade are mad, i'm sorry if we made you feel that way. It's just that outside of the color and a effect here and there, I and many other people on this forum don't see a downgrade.

I do agree that the difference between Geralt on the boat with Triss and Yennefer (and Cynthia) looks different/better (forgotten the name of the trailer) then in the gameplay released these last few months. But that can be because of:
- ultra settings(I know devs have said it only adds a few extra, and expensive, effects. But that could be pre release PR talk.),
- a cinematic(just like the griffin statue trailer.),
- actual pc gameplay and on high with a cinematic effect over it, for all we know the actual cinematics in the game look like that. (The big cinematics in the game, not conversations.)
- a combination of the other possibilities.

 

[Lieste]

We have Witcher 1 to blame for that, where it was perpetually cloudy. Moody and gritty, but unrealistic for longer games.

You obviously never got to Murky Waters then. Or have a short memory.

 

[OliverDK]

Now I have seen a few "don't get this dark and gritty" approach people ask for - get out of the house instead of being inside an depressed. The argument is a bit "demeaning" to be honest.

But or sake of misunderstanding let's just clear it up:

1. Dark and gritty doesn't mean a DARK game. It refers to a more subtle effect/tone that gives the game a feeling that this world is unlike ours. It's is unforgiving place, things are settled by the sword or the fist, People get murdered, violated for minor reasons that in today' world seem crazy. It's a feeling of having to be on your toes because darker forces lurks around in the shadows. And so on.

2. And that feeling you get in a "dark and gritty" game is very much but not exclusive set by the tone of the graphics - art direction, color palette, tone. It's hard to imagine that a world is in turmoil and on the brink of destruction when everything seems happy, cartoonish and beautiful like in the newer material. That's why me and others preferred the art direction and color palette, tone used in the VGX/SOD trailers because that atmosphere (for us at least) gave that sense of a "dark and gritty" or a more unforgiving and mature world.

3. By the argument that people don't get "dark and gritty" horror movies/games shouldn't exist, Game of Thrones shouldn't be that popular, LOTR movies and books shouldn't really have been that succesful and I could go on.

 

[B_l_a_d_y]

Now I have seen a few "don't get this dark and gritty" approach people ask for - get out of the house instead of being inside an depressed. The argument is a bit "demeaning" to be honest.

as i remember post like this, telling other users what do do were removed

is it hard to comprehend that some people just want game darker?

 

[endtherapture]

Now I have seen a few "don't get this dark and gritty" approach people ask for - get out of the house instead of being inside an depressed. The argument is a bit "demeaning" to be honest.

But or sake of misunderstanding let's just clear it up:

1. Dark and gritty doesn't mean a DARK game. It refers to a more subtle effect/tone that gives the game a feeling that this world is unlike ours. It's is unforgiving place, things are settled by the sword or the fist, People get murdered, violated for minor reasons that in today' world seem crazy. It's a feeling of having to be on your toes because darker forces lurks around in the shadows. And so on.

2. And that feeling you get in a "dark and gritty" game is very much but not exclusive set by the tone of the graphics. It's hard to imagine that a world is in turmoil and on the brink of destruction when everything seems happy, cartoonish and beautiful like in the newer material. That's why me and others preferred the tone, art direction and color palette used in the VGX/SOD trailers because that atmosphere (for us at least) gave that sense of a "dark and gritty" or a more unforgiving and mature world.

3. By the argument that people don't get "dark and gritty" horror movies/games shouldn't exist, Game of Thrones shouldn't be that popular, LOTR movies and books shouldn't really have been that succesful and I could go on.

We are probably going to get a variety of weather types in the game. Either way, sunny weather doesn't prevent rape, murder, and torture. Cloudy weather doesn't cause war and destruction. You could probably meditate around and play the game in your overcast environment whilst the rest of us enjoy the sun in the game.

If you remember Witcher 2, act 2 in Henselt's camp was often sunny and beautiful. Did that mean the game was happy and lost its adult tone? No.

 

[Riven-Twain]

Now I have seen a few "don't get this dark and gritty" approach people ask for - get out of the house instead of being inside an depressed. The argument is a bit "demeaning" to be honest.

But or sake of misunderstanding let's just clear it up:

1. Dark and gritty doesn't mean a DARK game. It refers to a more subtle effect/tone that gives the game a feeling that this world is unlike ours. It's is unforgiving place, things are settled by the sword or the fist, People get murdered, violated for minor reasons that in today' world seem crazy. It's a feeling of having to be on your toes because darker forces lurks around in the shadows. And so on.

2. And that feeling you get in a "dark and gritty" game is very much but not exclusive set by the tone of the graphics. It's hard to imagine that a world is in turmoil and on the brink of destruction when everything seems happy, cartoonish and beautiful like in the newer material. That's why me and others preferred the tone, art direction and color palette used in the VGX/SOD trailers because that atmosphere (for us at least) gave that sense of a "dark and gritty" or a more unforgiving and mature world.

3. By the argument that people don't get "dark and gritty" horror movies/games shouldn't exist, Game of Thrones shouldn't be that popular, LOTR movies and books shouldn't really have been that succesful and I could go on.

I can see most of your points, except the 'cartoonish' bit. World of Warcraft is 'cartoonish', not the Witcher games, though. However, the main trend of this thread has been devoted to graphic quality than general atmosphere and theme.

 

[JackalJ]

Yet GoT and LOTR have very light moments, like the witcher. They also have very light and beautifull scenes/world/locations, just like the witcher.

And that doesn't mean that during the game (200 hours) it should just be flowers and sunshine everywhere, with a dark cave here and there. No, the game should have plenty of actual dark and gritty moments. And I mean the world, characters, situations. But not all the time. And I expect that with the changing weather the world will look darker, and with the choices you make the world will feel darker.
And yes we haven't seen any of that, yet. That's why I said, a lot of pages back, that at this point I'm more worried about the gameplay and systems of the game then a downgrade of the graphics.

 

[JasonShepard]

We are probably going to get a variety of weather types in the game. Either way, sunny weather doesn't prevent rape, murder, and torture. Cloudy weather doesn't cause war and destruction. You could probably meditate around and play the game in your overcast environment whilst the rest of us enjoy the sun in the game.

If you remember Witcher 2, act 2 in Henselt's camp was often sunny and beautiful. Did that mean the game was happy and lost its adult tone? No.

Henselt's camp was sunny and beautiful? It was full of dry dirt, a few tents, and it was sunny, but not beautiful.

 

[Riven-Twain]

I'm not saying I would want to build a summer home there, but some of the the landscape around Henselt's camp was quite lovely.

 

[Geralt_of_bsas]

Now I have seen a few "don't get this dark and gritty" approach people ask for - get out of the house instead of being inside an depressed. The argument is a bit "demeaning" to be honest.

But or sake of misunderstanding let's just clear it up:

1. Dark and gritty doesn't mean a DARK game. It refers to a more subtle effect/tone that gives the game a feeling that this world is unlike ours. It's is unforgiving place, things are settled by the sword or the fist, People get murdered, violated for minor reasons that in today' world seem crazy. It's a feeling of having to be on your toes because darker forces lurks around in the shadows. And so on.

2. And that feeling you get in a "dark and gritty" game is very much but not exclusive set by the tone of the graphics. It's hard to imagine that a world is in turmoil and on the brink of destruction when everything seems happy, cartoonish and beautiful like in the newer material. That's why me and others preferred the tone, art direction and color palette used in the VGX/SOD trailers because that atmosphere (for us at least) gave that sense of a "dark and gritty" or a more unforgiving and mature world.

3. By the argument that people don't get "dark and gritty" horror movies/games shouldn't exist, Game of Thrones shouldn't be that popular, LOTR movies and books shouldn't really have been that succesful and I could go on.

I'd argue that the scene with the horse in VGX, and one with the Griffin, are as "cartoonish" as current game footage, except of the sharpening filter.

You also need to take into consideration that the game will never look like you guys want if you are constantly watching screenshots and scenes with clear skies and the sun equally illuminating everything. Can you watch something else though? not really, because we havent been shown footage like that yet, but that doesnt automatically mean that if TW3 is cloudly it will look just as if its a clear and happy day, an obviously illogical conclusion.

I wonder why I've never seen a post complaining about the game not being dark and gritty enough that uses a scene from the swamps in the 35min vid to make its point for example. I suspect its not simply a coincidence.

I've seen stormy and "bad" not happy weather in the SOD scene with the boat, and in the leaked gamescom demo video, and it seems very likely to me that this game can look very much like you guys want it if its supposed to look that way according to the weather simulation.

TW2 can be pretty "happy" in vergen or flotsam when the sun is up, but when it rains, everything is grey and dark.

 

[Tokei-ihto]

Precisely. Even if the people of the game-world are gritty and somber, if the game-world itself is an attempt to imitate life, then there are going to be beautiful days, and dreary days. If the developers have managed to pull off that illusion, I think it should be admired. Unless some people simply want sorcerers, or the Wild Hunt to plunge the world into an eternal shadow, but that would be rather dull to render, and to play.

We have Witcher 1 to blame for that, where it was perpetually cloudy. Moody and gritty, but unrealistic for longer games.

Well, What can you do? Some people want their game to be all "cloudy with a chance of god rays".

@OliverDK: You got it backwards. The Witcher's world is occasional very dark, however it's not grim 'n' gritty. I'm just going to quote myself here since I wrote about this particular "Issue" a couple of pages ago (I arrogantly asssume that Aedan2 was indeed referring to my initial post on that topic with his "someone said earlier" remark):

Honestly, I'm relieved they didn't went with this kind of muted and desaturated look. Not only has it become a lazy shortcut for grittiness in recent years, but one view out the window proves that the real word is actually quite colorful. And while Sapkowski's world undoubtedly has no shortage of horrible people doing horrible things, tonally it is decidely not part of the "grim & gritty" genre. I'd rather have CDPR actually put all their writing talent and design artistry forth to create a complex, authentic and ultimately believable world than simply rely on a dark colour palette.

[...]

The Witcher is neither grim nor gritty. The series goes to a lot of dark places but that is always balanced out by some humorous, oftentimes quite subversive moments that elevate the increasingly dire circumstances our heroes find themselves in. Especially the short stories occassional adopted an almost satirical tone, poking fun at both classic fairy tales and European legends and myths while establishing a more lighthearted, at times almost whimsical atmosphere. And I completely agree with EliHarel that this allowed the emotional and tragic events that eventually unfolded to have a much greater impact and emotional resonance than it probably would have had if Sapkowskie had adopted a more grim and cynical tone, something that unfortunately (imho) has become very much en vogue in the last decade. It's hard to care if everything is permeated by a sense of grisliness and constant doom.

Also, grim & gritty is not necessarily a matter of depicting - oftentimes quite graphically - brutality and violence, degeneracy and sex as well as featuring characters of questionable morality pursuing selfish goals - this and more can also be found in other works that a diametrically oppossed to that particular subgenre - but very much a philosophical approach that is defined by cynism, apathy and pessimism.