This. There were beautiful coastal vistas and the entire place had a feel of a desolate northern moorland (like Scotland) and if you went to the other side of the battlefield, you get to that forest next to Vergen (with the crypt) which is one of the most beautiful areas of the game.
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Well the kaedweni dog's
Watching the grass grow, are we?To resume the last few pages, we have fallen this low.
I'm not against discussing the artstyle (already committed that sin myself by arguing that this franchise isn't as grim as some think, here and here), and I realize that discussions can develop in different directions. But keeping in mind that this is still a thread about a downgrade, a change in tone is neither here nor there in saying that the game has been downgraded or upgraded. Just that it changed. Kinda feels to me that people are just lumping all sorts of grudges they have with the game in this thread because it's critical\negative by its nature, whether those grudges have to do with a downgrade.
There are also some posts that responded to the sharpened screenshots with something along the lines of "already closer to VGX". Doesn't that take away some of the wind from the sails, if it comes down to a filter? If that's the bulk of the difference then CDPR's claim of not having downgraded is a bit more reliable.
I'm saying that's the case. Most of the VGX scenes still look better to me, whatever the reason. I just found it strange and it only reinforced my impression that more than a little here has to do not with a downgrade necessarily but a change of direction in atmosphere. This controversy needs something more juicy than a sharpening filter.
There are also some posts that responded to the sharpened screenshots with something along the lines of "already closer to VGX". Doesn't that take away some of the wind from the sails, if it comes down to a filter? If that's the bulk of the difference then CDPR's claim of not having downgraded is a bit more reliable.
I'm saying that's the case. Most of the VGX scenes still look better to me, whatever the reason. I just found it strange and it only reinforced my impression that more than a little here has to do not with a downgrade necessarily but a change of direction in atmosphere. This controversy needs something more juicy than a sharpening filter.
Nowhere have people that argue dark and gritty put forward the statement we don't want sunny weather or bright days. The older trailers (VGX/SOD respectively) did have sunny days and beautiful scenery but still manage to have a much "darker" or if you prefer unnerving tone and atmosphere
And that tone and atmosphere to me and others have change through the newer material so that the mood of the game is to some extent seems less mature, less worrisome and more "cartoonish/happy" - and I say cartoonish/happy in the lack of a better word. It doesn't reflect the turmoil the world is in.
And as I state this "dark and gritty" approach is not exclusive made through graphics but many other factors too such as soundtracks, story writing, AI, NPC behavior and so on. However through the use of certain graphics and here I primarily think about art direction, color palette, tones you can come a very long way in pulling on the atmosphere you want your game to reflect.
I wrote a post on that earlier http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/34018-Graphic-downgrade?p=1564668&viewfull=1#post1564668
I get what you're saying, and I'm definitely not against making this a seperate topic to be discussed in another thread, but isn't the fact that CDPR seems to have changed their approach in regards to the game's art direction intricately linked with more than just a small portion of the downgrade talk (as nonsensical as it may seem)?
I'm pretty sure there will be a variety of different weather for all of us to enjoy, sunny, cloudy, rainy, snowy.
Either way, just because there's a war going on and interdimensional elves are going around killing anyone, doesn't mean the sun can't come out to shine every now and again.
I agree with @endtherapture .
Until the era of the sword and axe is nigh, and the Wolfs Blizzard is upon us. The time of the White Chill and the White Light. Until the End time has arrived, there will be sunny days!
Until the era of the sword and axe is nigh, and the Wolfs Blizzard is upon us. The time of the White Chill and the White Light. Until the End time has arrived, there will be sunny days!
We can each use these words for our own arguments. You say the world is less mature in its current state, I can argue that it's less mature when everything is gloomy at every corner, because that's trying to bear down on you in a a very forced manner. I find it more believable that a huge city of trade remains colorful and energetic, even in times of war - especially when the fighting isn't near it. The sun still shines brightly and people go on with their lives if there's no tangible and immediate danger in front of them. Ahk, to be honest, I'm no longer sure what "mature" and "gritty" mean. People can take them to so many directions.
If we were shown gameplay of Geralt walking through a battlezone with green grass and dancing maidens I'd agree that it's cartoonish. War has a noticeable effect on the areas it passes through, but it doesn't have this all-reaching influence on the world and it doesn't contaminate the weather, the buildings and the daily mood of people.
You also mentioned in one of your posts that the world is facing destruction. Even if it is, it's not this evident threat, but a very low-profile one that almost everyone in the world isn't even aware of. In the books it's mentioned that the Wild Hunt was once responsible for the vanishing of twenty people in Novigrad, and that was considered an extreme, noteworthy case. Twenty people isn't exactly epic. It makes it sound much more like some local and fleeting nuisance than a world-threatening power.
You mention soundtracks, and two come to mind. Ladies of the Woods and Merchants of Novigrad. The first one sends this uneasy feeling creeping up your spine, and the second has this infectious vitality about it. There's a balance here. The world can be gloomy and it can be chirpy. I don't think that the gameplay footage makes it appear only one or the other. Novigrad was a lively place, as I think it should be. The swamps were an overcast area, as I think they should be.
I don't want this to come off the wrong way - I love the VGX trailer, I find it amazing. But I don't think this change in atmosphere CDPR did is out of line with the world. I think it's more true to the franchise, honestly. We can still like the "gritty" (gritty is all the rage these days, isn't it?) feeling of the VGX, but I remain unconvinced that this is the more fitting direction for the franchise. It's a very colorful world with very colorful characters.
A final note - maybe balance is more effective? If the world has this constant, forlorn air to it, then I think a player (I will, anyway) develops a high tolerance to it. When I'm led to feel that everything in this world is crap then maybe there won't be any impact once something bad actually happens.
I really don't see how it is. I think tying the matter of a change in atmosphere to the matter of a graphical downgrade is hijacking the second term, because it's very sensational.
Well look at the footage yourself. Pax is ugly compared to the rest it's true. But GDC is not and released at the same time. What do you make of it? My argument is mine and only mine. I don't take in consideration what CDPR said to say that
In GDC although heavily compressed it is as good maybe better than everything we ve seen so far except the VGX and the debut trailer. With the GDC video it's in my opinion obvious that the Sod trailer quality will be reached.I mean if all you guys were worried about a downgrade compared to the VGX trailer well 35 min gameplay can be considered as a downgrade (a mind blowing one) and it was already time to yell to downgrade back then. Now we have a game that still look like the first real gameplay shown and video that look worse almost at the same time. So what should we make of it? Downgrade? of course not. A game is not downgraded in 7 days. I know what to think about Pax and Hands on video gameplay parts. It's Pc console setting (high apparently but damien wasn't sure for the Pax video so it maybe less after all). Well you have every right to be worried but I seriously think because of what I read that some of you should have been worried for more thant a year now.
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For those who were demanding a video or screens in ultra\uber...here is a post from Dark Cris in the "grass" thread...
"Correct. We have not shown any footage on highest settings. I'm not aware of any plans to do so. And, until the game goes gold and is actually shipped off to manufacturers, it is still being worked on and nothing is 100% final."
http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/34023-Trials-of-Grasses-trials-for-CDPR?p=1564922&viewfull=1#post1564922
"Correct. We have not shown any footage on highest settings. I'm not aware of any plans to do so. And, until the game goes gold and is actually shipped off to manufacturers, it is still being worked on and nothing is 100% final."
http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/34023-Trials-of-Grasses-trials-for-CDPR?p=1564922&viewfull=1#post1564922
It's not using words to prove my argument or somehow to bear down on others. It has never been my intention and I have explicitly stated in most posts that it was my opinion and my experience of the newer material. I also used the argument that others may and others will feel differently than me and disagree with my assessment and what "does it" for me doesn't necessarily "do it" for others.
What I have said that to me there's a questionable change in the atmosphere when comparing the VGX/SOD trailers to newer material and to me and others that change is deviating to a less mature, less dark, less gritty and less realistic way. I believe that change comes down to a change in art style, color palette, tone and to some degree lighting.
And I think it's a shame and a point of worry because as i have tried to point out in a earlier post in takes away from the immersion for me. And again i have been very careful to always write me. I wrote a post about that here: http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/34018-Graphic-downgrade?p=1564668&viewfull=1#post1564668
Does others disagree with that assessment and are they right to do so - absolutely - as mention what tickles my bone doesn't do it for others and that is perfectly fine.
However what I pointed out in the post you referred to was that people kept taking the meaning dark and gritty literately and that I didn't want sunny sky, beautiful scenery, colors and so on. And that is a complete misinterpreted of the concept dark and gritty which refers to a "mood or a feeling". The sense that the world is in turmoil, people are worried/scared, state and law is falling apart, crime and acts of violence are raising up, people gets killed and rape, injustices are flourishing and i could go on.
And I completely understand that to achieve this you can't rely on graphics alone but there are many other factors such as mentioned: soundtrack, NPC behaviors, camera works, voice acting and we could go on. However graphic (and here I especially mean art style, color palette and tone) can make or break this mood completely as can any of those factors.
If you take soundtrack for example I think most people can agree that playing happy or cheerful tunes throughout the game wouldn't ring quite right and cause quite a uproar like this "downgrade" business. I exaggerate of course with the happy tunes to prove my point but I am sure you catch my drift that the soundtrack does have a considerable impact on the mood and atmosphere or the game - just like art style, color palette and tone. And to me the style from VGX/SOD just fitted better to the overall atmosphere of the game while the new style feels more like the happy tune soundtrack example. It feels off in regards to the "state" of the world it tries to reflect and that breaks immersion to me.
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Great post and everything is exactly on point. I think weather can be a great story telling tool. I think back to playing Skyrim and how epic and meaningful moments were accompanied by great weather -a sunset battle against dragons, a night time siege of a city and then a blood red sunrise punctuating the destroyed buildings. But the end of the world can be low key, and it doesn't always have to be overcast, although having snowy weather or a storm of clouds whenever the Wild Hunt show up would be pretty awesome in my opinion. Life goes on for most of the people of TW world though.
Check again. There's never a clear sky. It seems sunny but you never actually see the sun. Just some blur behind the clouds.
And what do you compare trailer songs with now? just curious, because we didnt have more trailers, just in game music (where VGX and SOD music was included btw). And where does Elder Blood fit into all of this, or The Trail
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I didn't compare trailers songs with anything. I tried to make a point, exaggerated as stated, that just like the sound track can make or break pr the very least change the mood and atmosphere of a game, so can the art style, color palette and tone have the same impact on the mood and atmosphere.
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