Graphics upgrades beyond B&W

[Riven-Twain]

As far as I can tell, modest improvements to the graphics are indeed possible, as B&W will likely demonstrate; however, more comprehensive augmentations, which would affect the entire game, would most probably require a bit more work. At this point, it remains a matter of speculation whether CDPR wishes to invest the time and resources -- and it's probably not quite as easy as we wish it were -- to make further improvements. The potential to do so -- in that it could be done -- exists, but we don't know if the REDs will, or can, within the limitations of their present development schedule and priorities. Time will tell.

---------- Updated at 02:40 PM ----------

we could argue all day about your comment.

Indeed we could, and, somehow, I rather fancy it wouldn't change the texture quality much. However, it would pass the time while we wait for B&W.

Btw, this conversation between us sounds familiar ?

How nice of you to remember. (I think we both know where that one led.)

 

[Nolenthar]

Indeed we could, and, somehow, I rather fancy it wouldn't change the texture quality much. However, it would pass the time while we wait for B&W.

You are perfectly right there. Most textures are of good enough quality. What I don't understand is why some are not. It's quite easy to spot. A project like HD Reworked Project has fixed a lot of those issues. Yet I feel a company, who always delivered improved EE of their masterpiece, should continue to do so. The Witcher 3 is their biggest achievement yet. Hopefully, it doesn't change the way they have been working in the past.

 

[Riven-Twain]

Most textures are of good enough quality. What I don't understand is why some are not. It's quite easy to spot. A project like HD Reworked Project has fixed a lot of those issues. Yet I feel a company, who always delivered improved EE of their masterpiece, should continue to do so. The Witcher 3 is their biggest achievement yet. Hopefully, it doesn't change the way they have been working in the past.

Agreed. (I fear I can think of naught of particular interest to add.)

 

[killkenny1]

Like one of the forum members from a different site said (about a different game though) - "Crysis this shit all the way."

 

[Riven-Twain]

Moderators' note: Since, in actual fact, this thread's original question has been answered, and the discussion has now shifted towards arguments in favour of further improvements, the thread has been retitled, and moved to Suggestions.

 

[SigilFey]

I'm not saying it can't be done. Nor would it take 20 texture artists a year to do it. I'm saying it's probably not in their budget or plans. Besides, if someone in the modding community has already completed a project, and people seem to like it...what's the point of spending any resources on it? (And, no, texture capabilities are not anywhere near that high on consoles. The only thing that could be done there is work on a better method for texture compression.)

I'm not defending (or attacking) anyone. (Not sure how what I said can even be interpreted in that light.) A business can only provide so many things. People here want high-res textures. Others would argue just as strongly for better blood and gore. Others want the engine re-worked so colors are more in line with E3 demos. Lots of people think the combat needs to be overhauled. Another group will argue fervently to optimize Hairworks more. Me? I want to see manual controls for sheathing and unsheathing swords and turn off the auto camera centering. None of that would take a huge amount of time or money. So...who wins? (Answer: we all do. The Nexus is but a few clicks away.)

The company's efforts went to Free DLCs, Hearts of Stone, and B&W. Decision's made. Pitchforks and torches down.

(Now, they'll probably release a high-res texture pack as free DLC within a week...just watch! )

 

[Riven-Twain]

(Now, they'll probably release a high-res texture pack as free DLC within a week...just watch! )

Still rather wishful thinking, I fancy, but it would be quite hilarious if they did.

 

[Nolenthar]

Still rather wishful thinking, I fancy, but it would be quite hilarious if they did.

To be fair. CDPR are very likely one of the most talented gaming company of the last 5 years. I'm not worried they could do it quickly if they wanted. I'm fairly sure something of the kind will come. Those guys have pride. They didn't take kindly the fact the TW3 release came with a "downgrade" feeling. It won't take much resources to make a TW3 GOTY Edition. It will come. Maybe not even as an investment in TW3, but as an investment in CP2077. Because, when preorder will launch, promises will sell a lot better this way.

 

[essenthy]

Also, another thing, both consoles have enough memory to handle better textures, as the current Ultra needs only 2 GB of VRAM. The joint 8GB RAM in the current gen consoles are pretty much enough for higher resolution textures. What they lack is the graphical processing power. The problem they'd face would be that because they can't run the game at higher resolutions, the improved textures will not matter that much in "some" cases (they will HIGHLY matter for rock textures and tree trunks though, for example. Maybe not so much for grass textures, as they are already quite okay, and further improvements will probably need the game to run at a higher resolution to be clearly discernible). However, an HD texture pack will probably be enjoyable for most of their consumer base, if they want to provide it.

ive always been skeptical about how those 8GB of unified ram work, because if you think about it, everything has to be dumped in there, on PC you got ram AND VRAM, on consoles the OS, meshe, textures, misc game data, speicif consoles needs, ALL have to be on the same bunch of RAM and on both console you have constant video recording + every devs has to leave some horsepower for the streaming, how much does that really leave for the game to use ?

i remember reading ( correct me if am wrong ) that devs can acutally use only 5GB of the PS4 8GB of ram, as 2GB are allowed for the OS and other stuff, so thats leave at 3GB for game data and maybe 2GB for textures and stuff like that ? or do they keep loading data from disc/hard drive ? i dont know, i just dont think they can really improve beyond what they did

 

[TheImpZA]

Although incredibly unlikely, a Vulkan renderer would be fantastic! That should allow for a much easier Linux port too. I still wonder what happened to it, since it was "coming" to SteamOS a year ago. Looking to the future, they're going to have to upgrade REDEngine to DX12 or Vulkan. PS: Go for Vulkan.

Of course, I don't know if their middleware solutions are Vulkan compatible yet. DOOM is getting a Vulkan patch soon, and The Talos Principle currently has a Beta Vulkan branch, with full support coming later in the year.

I watch this trailer every day... I need this. It doesn't matter if it would burn my system to the ground.

 

[essenthy]

Although incredibly unlikely, a Vulkan renderer would be fantastic! That should allow for a much easier Linux port too. Looking to the future, they're going to have to upgrade REDEngine to DX12 or Vulkan. PS: Go for Vulkan.

Of course, I don't know if their middleware solutions are Vulkan compatible yet. DOOM is getting a Vulkan patch soon, and The Talos Principle currently has a Beta Vulkan branch, with full support coming later in the year.

I watch this trailer every day... I need this. It doesn't matter if it would burn my system to the ground.

i want to believe

View attachment 39511

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

Although incredibly unlikely, a Vulkan renderer would be fantastic!

At this stage I don't expect any new renderer or Linux version of TW3, unless CDPR will decide to make an enhanced edition which was mentioned a long time ago. So far there is no indication that they plan it. But it's not impossible either.

CP2077 on the other hand is another story. I'd say if CDPR are smart, they'll use Vulkan there already now.

 

[arkhenon]

@essenthy On PC the visual assets are also stored in RAM and VRAM at the same time (as assets are loaded from the drive to RAM, and then from RAM to VRAM). It's highly inefficient and hopefully will be remedied in the future. So the memory solution (the unified one) for the consoles is actually more advanced in that regard and more efficient. They should be able to handle some better textures, IF memory is the only concern (even if the consoles can only use 5 GB of their memory. Remember, on PC we need 5 GB of normal memory and 2 GB of VRAM when consoles only need 5 GB unified RAM for the same thing - and it's also GDDR5 all the way for PS4, so that's even faster for some swift load/unload operations). But like I said, if they run the game in 900p, most quality increase in small and detailed parts (e.g., vegetation) will be hardly discernible. But they should easily benefit from the texture improvements for larger meshes, like rocks and trunks.

Now, I'm not saying CDPR should allocate their resources there (talking about textures here, not Vulkan. If they want to port RedEngine to Vulkan anyway, they can produce an EE with better graphics, while putting out a Linux version as well). It's past and gone. If it won't be beneficial to them and they won't gain anything to invest elsewhere, I'd much rather them spend those resources on CP2077 But what I'm saying is "theoretically" they can improve it if they wish so, and it should be applicable to most of their playerbase.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

By the way, is anyone here an expert in graphics enough to know how shaders work? I'm familiar with the subject only slightly. I suspect if CDPR made all their shaders in HLSL (nasty DX lock-in shader language), they might have a big problem converting that to SPIR-V for Vulkan. Would it be an enormous effort? Of course if they used their own intermediate format, and then compiled into HLSL from that, they can also compile it into SPIR-V, then Vulkan version of TW3 is a higher possibility.

---------- Updated at 08:13 PM ----------

Ah, I see some already realized it can be useful to create HLSL → SPIR-V translator: https://github.com/KhronosGroup/glslang/issues/200

 

[Krull32]

How nice of you to remember. (I think we both know where that one led.)

True, better to stop now.. :teeth:

My last words about this topic :

Witcher 3 looks already awesome, one of the best looking games on the market, but i have nothing against further improvements, and CDPR should improve it further, if they want. regardless of some crying people who may show up

 

[WalteriusMaximus]

I will say this and then leave this topic alone: There is absolutely NO EXCUSE why we should be seeing so many ultra-low textures in the game! I am pretty sure they were only squashed so that everything could fit on the allocated media for physical copies of the game. It is not a matter of performance - we have established that already.
CDPR really ought to provide a HD Texture pack. This is something they should have done a long time ago already and it will NOT take them much time or resources because they already have those assets/textures in their library!
We didn't get the original texture quality....we got REDUCED textures!

CDPR, you guys pride yourself on listening to your fans and we have been complaining about the "downgrade" since day 1 and still we have not received any attempt from you whatsoever to address this. A HD texture pack would put this thing to sleep once and for all. I am surprised you guys don't see this...

But here is hoping for some response....

 

[essenthy]

@essenthy On PC the visual assets are also stored in RAM and VRAM at the same time (as assets are loaded from the drive to RAM, and then from RAM to VRAM). It's highly inefficient and hopefully will be remedied in the future. So the memory solution (the unified one) for the consoles is actually more advanced in that regard and more efficient. They should be able to handle some better textures, IF memory is the only concern (even if the consoles can only use 5 GB of their memory. Remember, on PC we need 5 GB of normal memory and 2 GB of VRAM when consoles only need 5 GB unified RAM for the same thing - and it's also GDDR5 all the way for PS4, so that's even faster for some swift load/unload operations). But like I said, if they run the game in 900p, most quality increase in small and detailed parts (e.g., vegetation) will be hardly discernible. But they should easily benefit from the texture improvements for larger meshes, like rocks and trunks.

Now, I'm not saying CDPR should allocate their resources there (talking about textures here, not Vulkan. If they want to port RedEngine to Vulkan anyway, they can produce an EE with better graphics, while putting out a Linux version as well). It's past and gone. If it won't be beneficial to them and they won't gain anything to invest elsewhere, I'd much rather them spend those resources on CP2077 But what I'm saying is "theoretically" they can improve it if they wish so, and it should be applicable to most of their playerbase.

they announced the opening of a whole new studio division in krakow some days ago, entirely dedicated to CP2077 and future IPs, they definitly have the ressources to fix the textures or anything else really, its just a matter of " if " they want to do it

i dont think they can pull of another W3 situation with CP2077 by showing none final builds of the games and build hype around that .. they seems to want to pull of that kind of graphics fidelity but this time thats what we're going to play, and not receive an entirely different games artistically

 

[kanival]

I'm not defending (or attacking) anyone. (Not sure how what I said can even be interpreted in that light.) A business can only provide so many things. People here want high-res textures. Others would argue just as strongly for better blood and gore. Others want the engine re-worked so colors are more in line with E3 demos. Lots of people think the combat needs to be overhauled. Another group will argue fervently to optimize Hairworks more. Me? I want to see manual controls for sheathing and unsheathing swords and turn off the auto camera centering. None of that would take a huge amount of time or money. So...who wins?

I want these:
https://youtu.be/kpP8BRE63PY
and these:
https://youtu.be/kpP8BRE63PY

i lose, but all win because all have a incredible game, but...

 

[SigilFey]

I want these:
https://youtu.be/kpP8BRE63PY
and these:
https://youtu.be/kpP8BRE63PY

i lose, but all win because all have a incredible game, but...

That's the nature of art!

 

[TheImpZA]

That's the nature of art!

You win too, because they're giving you the manual sheath option in the new patch.

I want Iorveth more Eredin. Will he I win? I hope so.