Grave Robbing

[GamerGawd]

Grave Robbing

Hi All,

I recently had a match against Nilfgaard. It went well but in the 2nd round he played Vicocaro Medic, 3 times!

Nilfgaard Vicocaro Medic is a Bronze with 2 HP, so you can have 3 of them in your deck easily.
Monster equivalent is Caretaker is a Gold with 6 HP, so you can have 4 of them (ya right)

I think this needs to be balanced correctly. Am I wrong?

 

[arz0]

Vicovaro medics have been a source of a lot of well..... Concern, OK... players were going crazy about them when the card was first unveiled.
however since the release of the NG patch the reaction was way out of proportion IMO.
I personally don't think the card is too powerful, it's a strong card sure, but not OP

Caretaker can resurect silver units which is an important difference. Vico medics can only target bronze units.

In fact vico medics have much greater synergy and have a greater impact with emissaries and ambassadors, and it is much more worthwhile to resurect those cards than any of your opponents. Unless your opponent gift wraps you one on a silver platter.

Related:

http://forums.cdprojektred.com/forum/en/gwent/general-discussions-aa/7641740-vicovaro-medic-dilemma

 

[Tamacountry13]

Medics are only really good against Skillege. Your normally better of bringing back your spies in other cases.
They should make BMC relentless as the Medics and chain revive everyone of them for free points, Making them relentless doesn't change anything for the ST player just for NG

 

[reliusclover]

when im up against Nilfgard (im using SK ) i try to not to send anything in my graveyard that would benefit them in round 1, they can do whatever in round 2, but do try to take note what youve been tossing into your graveyard and try to prevent them from stealing it.

 

[GamerGawd]

Thanks for the info and tips guys.

I think they should make it a Silver unit to eliminate the spamming of it.

 

[4RM3D]

I think they should make it a Silver unit to eliminate the spamming of it.

That would kill the card and deal a great blow to an already weakened Nilfgaard.

 

[Ninschi]

Even though I think that Vicovaro Medic on its own is far away from being OP, I believe that the whole concept of repeated and permanent graverobbing drastically decreases design space in gwent. VM is most likely the main reason why Queensguard and Clan Tuirseach Skirmishers are not viable atm and he's also a pain in the arse for NR decks. A possible solution that I already suggested in the german gwent forum might be to give the resurrected card back to it's original owner after death (give VM +1 in return maybe?). This way, graveyard strategies will still be disturbed, but should stay viable without making VM a useless card.

 

[4RM3D]

A possible solution [...] might be to give the resurrected card back to it's original owner after death.

Oh, I like that idea. You can still steal units from the graveyard, but it will only disrupt the current round.

 

[Deferigon]

Use Lacerate.

 

[soph912]

This is nonsense. Nilfgaard is one of the weakest factions and NR which is also quite weak has medics and reaver scouts to do basically the same.
Without Vilgefortz+Roach Duo you are always the underdog with Nilfgaard and not everybody has them since the scrap cost is 1600.

 

[ErasmusX]

This is nonsense. Nilfgaard is one of the weakest factions and NR which is also quite weak has medics and reaver scouts to do basically the same. Without Vilgefortz+Roach Duo you are always the underdog with Nilfgaard and not everybody has them since the scrap cost is 1600.

I don't know how you could phrase your post and be more wrong. You seem to be implying that unless Nilfgaard has something that is broken overpowered enough to carry the faction nobody else can have powerful cards. In addition you managed to reference three other cards that this thread isn't addressing and again you're incorrect that Northern Realms has cards that function in an identical manner to Vicovario Medic, since it just so happens that the cards you're talking about do not have OPPONENT graveyard manipulation at all since they either resurrect from your graveyard or pull from the deck.

Finally players not having the scraps to craft legendaries shouldn't be a consideration at all in balancing individual cards.

 

[soph912]

I don't know how you could phrase your post and be more wrong. You seem to be implying that unless Nilfgaard has something that is broken overpowered enough to carry the faction nobody else can have powerful cards. In addition you managed to reference three other cards that this thread isn't addressing and again you're incorrect that Northern Realms has cards that function in an identical manner to Vicovario Medic, since it just so happens that the cards you're talking about do not have OPPONENT graveyard manipulation at all since they either resurrect from your graveyard or pull from the deck.

Are you unble to read and think properly?

Hi All,

I recently had a match against Nilfgaard. It went well but in the 2nd round he played Vicocaro Medic, 3 times!

It doesn't matter where those card come from. Field Medics also can be played 3 times with reaver scout combo, just like Vicovaro Medics can be played 3 times in one turn only with emissary combo.

Finally players not having the scraps to craft legendaries shouldn't be a consideration at all in balancing individual cards.

Of course they should. Nilfgaard is relatively weak without them since Villgefortz+Roach in a single turn puts 8 strength on YOUR side of the battlefield and draws a card. If you play Avallac'h for example you put 8 points on the side of your opponent and draw 2 cards while the opponent draws one in a single turn which is much worse in comparison.

 

[Ninschi]

Well, to start things: this is a thread about grave robbing, not reanimation in general which limits it to effects that feed on the opponents yard like udalryk or caretaker. Your comparison to nr medic is therefore a little out if place. Also -even though this is also not the topic of this post- your avallach vs vilge comparison is a little flawed, since avallach provides Ca that compensate the +8 for your opponent, whereas vilge doesn't draw, but plays a card (huge difference when it comes to ca and certainly worse than drawing)

 

[soph912]

Well, to start things: this is a thread about grave robbing, not reanimation in general which limits it to effects that feed on the opponents yard like udalryk or caretaker. Your comparison to nr medic is therefore a little out if place. Also -even though this is also not the topic of this post- your avallach vs vilge comparison is a little flawed, since avallach provides Ca that compensate the +8 for your opponent, whereas vilge doesn't draw, but plays a card (huge difference when it comes to ca and certainly worse than drawing)

Ok, you have to play the card immediately but it's a +16 point difference, not an +8 point difference. This is huge and probably better on average than CA.

I still don't think my comparison to field medics is out of place.

 

[Ninschi]

Thats not really how the comparison works, because avallach basically doesn't cost you a card, whereas vilge does. So it's rather:

-8 + the value of one of your drawn cards (X) + CA

vs

8 + the value of the drawn card (Y)

the difference equals 16 only if X+CA = Y which is unlikely. So a direct comparison between both is certainly hard to make. Don't get me wrong, both are solid staples for their factions

 

[ErasmusX]

It doesn't matter where those card come from. Field Medics also can be played 3 times with reaver scout combo, just like Vicovaro Medics can be played 3 times in one turn only with emissary combo.

Funny you would attack my intellect when the fact is you're unaware of why Vicovaro Medic is overpowered in the first place. Nobody cares how many minions a card can summon, plenty of cards do that. The reason we care about Vic Medic is because it is graveyard manipulation allowing the NG player to select and remove key cards their opponent was relying on to win them the game. Examples are Tuirseach Axeman, Queensguard, any NR bronze unit, -1 on Grave Hag and Madman Lugos. Also it's super retarded when you can pull out relentless units which tend to have a powerful summon ability. If you're going to complain about cards pulling more power than they should through resurrection point your sword towards Shani > Nenneke > Field Medic > Reaver Scout chain.

Of course they should. Nilfgaard is relatively weak without them since Villgefortz+Roach in a single turn puts 8 strength on YOUR side of the battlefield and draws a card. If you play Avallac'h for example you put 8 points on the side of your opponent and draw 2 cards while the opponent draws one in a single turn which is much worse in comparison.

Play more or pay more. I have no sympathy for your plight as I am a F2P player and I for sure do not think the devs should change cards to placate you because you're too poor or don't play enough to earn cards. This game by far gives the best time : reward ratio of any free game I've ever played so step off that lame argument.

 

[soph912]

Funny you would attack my intellect when the fact is you're unaware of why Vicovaro Medic is overpowered in the first place. Nobody cares how many minions a card can summon, plenty of cards do that. The reason we care about Vic Medic is because it is graveyard manipulation allowing the NG player to select and remove key cards their opponent was relying on to win them the game. Examples are Tuirseach Axeman, Queensguard, any NR bronze unit, -1 on Grave Hag and Madman Lugos. Also it's super retarded when you can pull out relentless units which tend to have a powerful summon ability. If you're going to complain about cards pulling more power than they should through resurrection point your sword towards Shani > Nenneke > Field Medic > Reaver Scout chain.

You can think what you want. Vicovaro Medic is NOT overpowered. Graveyard manipulation is part of the game. Monsters can consume such cards with Katakan or put them in your own graveyard with Griffin.

Play more or pay more. I have no sympathy for your plight as I am a F2P player and I for sure do not think the devs should change cards to placate you because you're too poor or don't play enough to earn cards. This game by far gives the best time : reward ratio of any free game I've ever played so step off that lame argument.

This game is only a beta and you don't understand at all that after the wipe you have to pay for kegs. You don't get them for free like it is now.

 

[sfruzz]

As far as grave robbing goes I think that Monsters are the scariest opponent. With Katakan and Ghoul they can banish key units from your graveyard, with Griffin they can move cards to their own discard-pile, with Caretaker they can resurrect any non-gold card. They have multiple ways of graveyard manipulation, while Nilfgaard only has Vicovaro Medic.

However monsters grave robbing abilities combined with Nilfgaard ones kind of makes SK resurrect archetypes quite weak, so I woudn't mind a change as the one proposed by Ninschi.

A possible solution that I already suggested in the german gwent forum might be to give the resurrected card back to it's original owner after death (give VM +1 in return maybe?). This way, graveyard strategies will still be disturbed, but should stay viable without making VM a useless card.

 

[RafaMontagner]

If there is any kind of need to nerf Vicovaro Medic, it would be way simpler than most of any other oppinion I've read so far regarding the topic:

Just change the card text to "Resurrect a Bronze Spy unit from your opponent's graveyard."

Easy like that. Prevents killing opponent's grave strategies while guaranteeing that the card will only be used for it's intended design purpose (I assume). No need to change color or nerf it to kill the card whatsoever.

 

[Voodoocaster13]

I didn't think V Medic was such a problem. When I play against NG I just automatically assume they are running 3 and I plan around it... I play as SK a lot.

if they are a super problem just have them only be able to resurrect NG units in your opponents GY. If you are playing against NG and you are NG then you'll have more to choose from.