Greatsword needs to be changed

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rrc

Forum veteran
Lets see how many different options GS has: Morkvarg, Wild Boar of Sea, Hemdall, Harald Evolving Card, Herkja, Gigascoprion, ThatBlueWhale, Hammond, Raiding Fleet, Longship, Lightship, Croshair, Savage Bear, Drummond Berserker, Drummond Villager, ALL the weather cards. (And I am very sure that I have missed more cards)

Now tell me one other freaking bronze unit in the game which can synergize with these many cards? And if a GS is on the board, you either deal with it immediately, or lose the round. No other bronze engine is this oppressive and OP as GS. With GS around, you can't go wide and you can't go tall. Because every unit you go wide with is a potential GS breakfast and every unit you go tall is a potential GS dinner. No amount of provision nerf on leaders is going to fix this, as long as GS has this much ridiculous support.

I propose GS be changed. With any/many of the following mutations:
1) GS should boost himself ONLY when an enemy unit is damaged during the opponents turn (basically, only bleeding and weather synergy).
2) GS should be doomed. It can always be purified, but there should be some commitment in R1 if it needs to be resurrected.
3) GS should have 3 power and 7 provisions. Dagur, though a little better version than GS, but row locked is 4 for 9. Should be easy to remove, needing a defender to protect it or have weather which will immediately proc it go higher.
4) GS should get vitality instead of boost when a boosted enemy is damaged. It shouldn't be like every boost the opponent got is suddenly worth 2x for the GS. Let Morkvarg reset all the boosts, but it shouldn't act like Regis Higher Vampire (all your boosts are for me) - who was changed to Order from deploy because it was ridiculously OP.

Basically, it shouldn't be a game winner who can be mindlessly resurrected and who can synergize with half the factions cards with no real commitment.
 
GS are the second most broken card right now, so yeah, i would welcome some change. Long time ago i suggested some sort of "limit" mechanic for all bronze engines that can generate more than 1p per turn - something like: "Can't boost more than 6 times per turn".
Also the ability to replay your most powerful cards is totaly busted.
 

Payus

Forum regular
So... just destroy them/reset them?
You can also doom them, banish them, banish from gy, yoink them, Lock them, use black blood for the lulz.

They are strong but they come down at 4-6.
Maybe the nerf of one point could be ok, at most. (4pow 7prov, or 3pow 6prov)

I don't get why we cant have GS but there's Cahir and such around.

I'm beating Gs left and right with a Master Mirror SK SV deck that runs bombs (for the contract) I'm amazed at how many times I've banished a GS and won easily.
 
Yeah, the nerf they did was rubbish and missed the spot. 3 points less for SW meant I took out Dagur and replaced him with a second GS and had 1 more point to spend. Ironically, this actually made my deck better.

GS may well be the culrpit, but as you've said there is a whole host of problems with SK since after the expansion there are just so many ways to proc them. You can't go wide, you can't go tall, you effectively can't do anything and god forbid if they have last say in R3, well, you may as well chuck the towel in end of R1.
 

Guest 4404014

Guest
GS are fine. Always was. It's the new cards that break the game.
 
GS are fine. Always was. It's the new cards that break the game.
GS were broken in beta (axeman) and nothing changed abou them. It's not that the new cards are too good (they are, but that is not the issue here), the GS problem just became more obvious.
 

rrc

Forum veteran
So... just destroy them/reset them?
You can also doom them, banish them, banish from gy, yoink them, Lock them, use black blood for the lulz.

They are strong but they come down at 4-6.
Maybe the nerf of one point could be ok, at most. (4pow 7prov, or 3pow 6prov)

I don't get why we cant have GS but there's Cahir and such around.

I'm beating Gs left and right with a Master Mirror SK SV deck that runs bombs (for the contract) I'm amazed at how many times I've banished a GS and won easily.
Destroy them: How many times? With the new support cards, GS comes to board outside the removal range.
Banish them: Yes, tech against GS or lose to GS, right? That is the problem with GS. Tell me one other bronze engine which forces you to tech against it - losing devotion or making your deck weaker overall?
Banish from GY: Same as above.
Yoink Them: Phillipa or YenCon can do it safely and easily. For others, play Muzzle? 12P tech card which may not even work as GS can easily come outside 5 points.
Lock Them: This is the only solution, but SW-> GS+(Morgvarg/WildBoarOfSea/Hemdall) for a 50 point swing gives no chance to lock. Simply because this is the only card which can support huge swing in one turn.
Black Blood: Yes, meme against them and see the GS dying before losing spectacularly.

Basically, no bronze card should have this ability to get 20 points in one turn; with very less to no foreplay and definitely that bronze card shouldn't come at 2 provisions deficiency; and definitely not being able to resurrect the hell out of it...
 
Basically, no bronze card should have this ability to get 20 points in one turn;
Honestly, it's very rare to get a 20 points GS in one turn.
Don't forget it's the damage row constraints.
To get a 20 points GS :
- with wild board you need that the opposite row is nearly full (8 or 9 units) AND they are all wounded which in real life pretty never happen.
- with Morgvarg, need to have an ennemy boosted by a t least 15 on the opposite row
- wtih Hemdall, it's impossible you hardly get 12 if full opposite row

In Most of the case in one turn you usually can get a 10 to 14 GS which is powerfull, i admit, but not by it own, it's onlly psossible in additon with strong gold (for damage) AND strong leader ability (SW) , so... not so OP that it may seems
 
I would say just limit GS to "Boost self by 2 if any enemy takes damage during that turn." But then all the individual pings are going to only be beneficial for Dagur. Which... is maybe OK? Idk.
 
I would say just limit GS to "Boost self by 2 if any enemy takes damage during that turn." But then all the individual pings are going to only be beneficial for Dagur. Which... is maybe OK? Idk.
It could be something like that.
 

Guest 4368268

Guest
I've got mixed feelings. I want Gwent to have strong, high value archetypes and bronzes that are worth building around.
The problem is, the difference in power levels is just too big right now. Look at the reach you have with a GS deck compared to other (even engine based) decks. Your 6 provision specials can play for 24 points. I don't necessarily even mind that so much as I do the fact GS has a monopoly on it. They felt beastmasters were too strong playing for 15+ points but beastmasters took a tremendous deck building cost and you had to invest in it all game. Compare that to the relative simplicity of getting greatswords off.

I don't think we need GS to be nerfed as much as we need any and everything else to be buffed. Unfortunately, we know which of those two options is easier to execute.
 

DRK3

Forum veteran
Usually, these "type 1 + type 2 combos" arent very strong.
In this case, lets say type 1 is a GS or Dagur, and type 2 is a damage dealer with lots of pings.

But SK can make it work, because of what rrc said - GS/Dagurs have too much and too great support. And those damage dealers are worth it on their own, you can even make great SK decks without GS/Dagur, these are just there as greedy versions to capitalize on all that damage.

And they are more reliable than other faction combos, because of revives, tutor (Blood eagle) and even tutor revives (Ermion), making it consistent, and in a way that you only need to fail to counter one of them and you lose.
 
Quite honestly it is hilarious to think that they said Beastmasters had to get reworked as they did not want decks as centered around them (given that they were 6p bronze cards) as they used to be, while being fine with Greatswords, which are not any bit less ridiculous, have their decks similarly focused around them, reach even more points and are 6p bronze cards as well.
 
Lets see how many different options GS has: Morkvarg, Wild Boar of Sea, Hemdall, Harald Evolving Card, Herkja, Gigascoprion, ThatBlueWhale, Hammond, Raiding Fleet, Longship, Lightship, Croshair, Savage Bear, Drummond Berserker, Drummond Villager, ALL the weather cards. (And I am very sure that I have missed more cards)

Now tell me one other freaking bronze unit in the game which can synergize with these many cards?

I‘ll take that challenge. Hmmm. How about Peasant Militia. Under the right circumstances it synergizes with almost any unit.

Watch out for those Peasant Militia!
 
Really, with all the tall punishment, you want GSs nerfed? There is also the fact, there are very few occasions that I can actually have a GS alive by the end of the round that I'm considering to remove them from the deck. And they rarely go up to 20+ points, you either need to have tons of damaged units on the opposite row, or a highly boosted unit, which rarely happens, in order to get Greatswords up to 20+ points you need to play them early, which will result in their immediate Death, and playing them late, which most of the time results in their death anyway, you can have them boosted to 15-18, which is totally fine for a 6 Prov engine, thirsty dame gets boosted up to 13-15 points while your board is getting wiped, with 5 prov, obviously over the round but still, it's not possible to play GSs like a thirsty dame or anything, the only way to get value out of it is Combo, which at the end of the day gets countered most of the time, and it will go up to 20 points if not, which is fine for a 6 Prov engine.
 
My favorite solution(that I will continue to reiterate xD) is to softcap the boost where it switches to vitality at a certain Point after being at 10 power or so. I just think there should at least be some way to limit the over the top burst potential without completely killing the card.
 
Really, with all the tall punishment, you want GSs nerfed? There is also the fact, there are very few occasions that I can actually have a GS alive by the end of the round that I'm considering to remove them from the deck. And they rarely go up to 20+ points, you either need to have tons of damaged units on the opposite row, or a highly boosted unit, which rarely happens, in order to get Greatswords up to 20+ points you need to play them early, which will result in their immediate Death, and playing them late, which most of the time results in their death anyway, you can have them boosted to 15-18, which is totally fine for a 6 Prov engine, thirsty dame gets boosted up to 13-15 points while your board is getting wiped, with 5 prov, obviously over the round but still, it's not possible to play GSs like a thirsty dame or anything, the only way to get value out of it is Combo, which at the end of the day gets countered most of the time, and it will go up to 20 points if not, which is fine for a 6 Prov engine.
You're doing it wrong!
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In Most of the case in one turn you usually can get a 10 to 14 GS which is powerfull, i admit, but not by it own, it's onlly psossible in additon with strong gold (for damage) AND strong leader ability (SW) , so... not so OP that it may seems
You are forgeting something - all the other combo pieces are as strong as GS, so you don't play just 15p GS, but also 20p Morg, +-15p Harald and Heimdal and youe weakest bronze is worth 7.
 

Guest 4368268

Guest
-GS discussed at length elsewhere. My version: boost by 2 whenever an enemy is damaged during the turn, which would leave "ping" synergy for Dagur only.
I really like this idea. Let's face it, the Wild Boar/Delirium/Gigascorp/Morkvarg combo with GS is broken. The reach these decks have is insane. I don't like being 40 points up against SK but feeling like it's the equivalent of being 5 points up against any other faction. Making it work this way means Dagur actually has a reason to exist as well.

I miss 99 aspects of beta Gwent but a Greatsword meta ain't one.
 
You're doing it wrong!
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You are forgeting something - all the other combo pieces are as strong as GS, so you don't play just 15p GS, but also 20p Morg, +-15p Harald and Heimdal and youe weakest bronze is worth 7.
I'm not doing it wrong I'm in Pro rank, that's the way it is, a Deck that focuses on GSs is a turn Swing deck, that's the way it works, that's how it gets it's value, and it doesn't always win.
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I really like this idea. Let's face it, the Wild Boar/Delirium/Gigascorp/Morkvarg combo with GS is broken. The reach these decks have is insane. I don't like being 40 points up against SK but feeling like it's the equivalent of being 5 points up against any other faction. Making it work this way means Dagur actually has a reason to exist as well.

I miss 99 aspects of beta Gwent but a Greatsword meta ain't one.
You might wanna question how you usually get 30-40 points abov GS decks usually to begin with, GS decks work that way, with Combo and turn Swing, with that they are on par with other decks, that's why before they do their thing you are usually 20-40 points ahead.
 
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