Gruesome violence?

[dethfuk]

Gruesome violence?

Just pondering on how the level of violence will be in CP2077. I myself am a fan of violence in video games and the more the better. The question is how much violence can RED get away with? And how much is too much?

Have a look at these videos showcasing what other developers have gotten away with.

How much is too much?

 

[prosociety]

I was thinking about this today. I think fairly graphic cyber/mech/gun violence should be part n parcel of the game. I would draw the line at sexual violence. And no shooting of kids, there's enough pain in the world.

Btw - have you watched Berserk? Think you might approve.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

don't think how much they can get away with is the real issue.

If I want to play a game for the sake of the violence, then Manhunter is thre for that. I don't feel the need to get too gratuitous.

If the level of violence was important, I would expect it to be tied to the Empathy stat. Your just not as likely to go out of your way to creatively inflict pain and suffering on an individual with a high humanity and empathy stat. But then again, it does sound about right for those walking the thin line silver line between sane and psycho.

EDIT:
On a related note, I have no issue with 'execution' style cutscenes. You know, for stealth kills and 'finishing' moves.

 

[dethfuk]

Btw - have you watched Berserk? Think you might approve.

Yeah I haven't watched it in awhile, perhaps I should watch some of the newer stuff. But yeah its ok.

 

[dethfuk]

I have no issue with 'execution' style cutscenes. You know, for stealth kills and 'finishing' moves.

Yeah execution style cut scenes are always fun in a game, That first video of the punisher game is a classic, I loved that game.Manhunt though...a little too much, no need for that much violence.

 

[prosociety]

How about Carmageddon style running people over?

I like finishing move cutscenes as well. Could they be tied to weapon proficiency etc - so if you're a master of boxing, then your can punch someone's head off....

 

[dethfuk]

How about Carmageddon style running people over?

I like finishing move cutscenes as well. Could they be tied to weapon proficiency etc - so if you're a master of boxing, then your can punch someone's head off....

Carmageddon was awesome, waiting for the new one that is in production.

Martial arts proficiency levels in CP77 should allow the player to execute kata style moves breaking limbs and tossing people around into eachother, that would be epic if thay incorporate this into CP77.

You remember the fight scene in Marked for death? They edited it when it went to dvd (as they did with alot of movies from that era)...

check out Seagal in this unedited version.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

How about Carmageddon style running people over?

I like finishing move cutscenes as well. Could they be tied to weapon proficiency etc - so if you're a master of boxing, then your can punch someone's head off....

To actually decapitate someone with your bare hands, that's a lot of force. I mean shit tons. I would rather keep the game grounded in realism than go for flashy death scenes remenicent of Madworld (Wii game, google it, it was suprisingly fun...)

I think that these 'finishing moves' should need to be tied to multiple stats and skills. Your going to need to be pretty unhinged to be willing to try to physically pull someones head off, (Though Full borgs would probably be more than capable, with much higher augmented strength and distrubingly low humanity levels.)

I can see a boxer going fo repeated punches to the face, levaing their oppentent a bloody pulp that will either be dead by the time the boxer stops or will simply shoke on their own blood as it fills their lungs.

Martial artists would probably go for breaking necks and going for other 'vulnerable' spots. A classic would be the thumbs through the eye sockets.

Hanguns and SMGs could be used creatively, though again, the flashier kills should be tied to low empathy.


Using the environment would be great here. Slamming doors on heads and stamping on necks on cirbs are old school. Throwing someone out of a 20th storey window always gets my vote though. It could draw a bit of attention though.


On a related note, the missions and contracts we take should affect our humanity and empathy. A cold blooded contract killer is not going to identify easily with other people. But a do-gooder will.

 

[prosociety]

To actually decapitate someone with your bare hands, that's a lot of force. I mean shit tons..........
......On a related note, the missions and contracts we take should affect our humanity and empathy. A cold blooded contract killer is not going to identify easily with other people. But a do-gooder will.

pneumatic fist.....yeah, it'd take some full body conversions for one punch beheadings.

Important point here - humanity and empathy system being affected by mission and contracts sounds good to me. The currency of games like ME was "how good or bad" are you, and the paragon system gave the dialogue another challenge.

I think I'd enjoy something with more depth to it in nightcity. For example, if your a rockerboy, then fame should be your key measure? Maybe people could follow you depending on how much your suffering/savoir dynamic is....i'm not sure, there's a better way to do this than that.

Tying into violence levels, I do think you're propensity to violence should be connected to empathy.

 

[Deadbolt_Don]

Robocop levels of violence would probably be acceptable. For style sake.

I kinda don't want to feel like I'm just mowing down paper cut outs though. Combat prolly shouldn't be the quickest or easiest solution 100% of the time.

There should be a little weight to the act........ at least if you're a fleshie.

If you're feeling the grip of cyber-psychosis though..... well......

 

[blank_redge]

I think it can be a powerful storytelling device, but if it's there for its own sake, I'd just as soon do without.

If I just wanted to splatter hamburger / mince everywhere, there's LOADS of "zombie horde" games that fill that niche quite nicely. I'd like to believe CDPR is setting the bar a wee bit higher.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

Robocop levels of violence would probably be acceptable. For style sake.

I kinda don't want to feel like I'm just mowing down paper cut outs though. Combat prolly shouldn't be the quickest or easiest solution 100% of the time.

There should be a little weight to the act........ at least if you're a fleshie.

If you're feeling the grip of cyber-psychosis though..... well......

This again is one of those area's where options are paramount. Some people want 'run and gun', and that's fine. Some people want to more style and flare. That's fine too. Some people, (as the pacifism thread shows,) wan't to keep their hands clean through the whole run.

In the PnP, there was the 'Fast & DIrty Expendables' sheets for goons and they have their place in video games. Obviously, a certain amount of character is also important, even for these faceless hordes who are going to die, over and over again, for our selfish entertainment. The easiest way for this to work is how RAGE did it. Every tribe has their own personality and characteristics. We need that in 2077.

Your average Booster is not going to be a tactical genius. He knows how to shoot up a bar and smack talk people. They will probably shout all sorts of BS while they are trying to kill you and they are going to make stupid mistakes. Anger will drive them more than tactical understanding. Also, each gang will probably have their own combat styles as well. Some, like Slaughter House, will prefer to be up close and personal. Some will work at a distance. Some will be sneaky. Some with try and shove bucket fulls of lead down your throat.

Guards are going to be more disciplined, but they are not soldiers. They know orders, but they don't know war. Many will have had experience with street trash and maybe boosters. They will probably be predicatable and easily outwitted. Also, they will be armed in a manner decided by their corporation and will act as instructed.

Elite guards, Mercs and Military are a whole different ball game. They will be veterans of many battles. they will be well aarmed and they will know their shit. They will use tactics, they will react faster and be much harder to deal with. They should work well under fire and they should not fall for simple tricks. Fighting these guys should test us.

Covert operatives should scare the shit out of us. These guys should be one man armies. They get paid a lot to get shit done, and they are good at it. They should always think outside the box. They should never be predicatable. Each should have a unique style and they should be masters of it. They should be pretty close to 'boss' encounters but with a whole new dynamic.

Making sure our enemies have this personality should also keep them fresh for us. I want to be able to look back at certain enemies and think; "Wow, that was a badass fight." I want to be able to kick back in some multiplayer bar, (awesome idea there for a social element into the game, have 'lobby' like bars where dozens, if not hunderds of players can socialise and sell their shit to each other,) and I want to be able to tell people about these badass fights and I want them to be impressed. The first time I killed a giant in Skyrim I thought it was awesome. A few days later, I was 2-shoting them in the head. I really want to avoid that.

The overall level of violence and gore is secondary for me to the quality of the violence.

 

[dethfuk]

This again is one of those area's where options are paramount. Some people want 'run and gun', and that's fine. Some people want to more style and flare. That's fine too. Some people, (as the pacifism thread shows,) wan't to keep their hands clean through the whole run.

In the PnP, there was the 'Fast & DIrty Expendables' sheets for goons and they have their place in video games. Obviously, a certain amount of character is also important, even for these faceless hordes who are going to die, over and over again, for our selfish entertainment. The easiest way for this to work is how RAGE did it. Every tribe has their own personality and characteristics. We need that in 2077.

Your average Booster is not going to be a tactical genius. He knows how to shoot up a bar and smack talk people. They will probably shout all sorts of BS while they are trying to kill you and they are going to make stupid mistakes. Anger will drive them more than tactical understanding. Also, each gang will probably have their own combat styles as well. Some, like Slaughter House, will prefer to be up close and personal. Some will work at a distance. Some will be sneaky. Some with try and shove bucket fulls of lead down your throat.

Guards are going to be more disciplined, but they are not soldiers. They know orders, but they don't know war. Many will have had experience with street trash and maybe boosters. They will probably be predicatable and easily outwitted. Also, they will be armed in a manner decided by their corporation and will act as instructed.

Elite guards, Mercs and Military are a whole different ball game. They will be veterans of many battles. they will be well aarmed and they will know their shit. They will use tactics, they will react faster and be much harder to deal with. They should work well under fire and they should not fall for simple tricks. Fighting these guys should test us.

Covert operatives should scare the shit out of us. These guys should be one man armies. They get paid a lot to get shit done, and they are good at it. They should always think outside the box. They should never be predicatable. Each should have a unique style and they should be masters of it. They should be pretty close to 'boss' encounters but with a whole new dynamic.

Making sure our enemies have this personality should also keep them fresh for us. I want to be able to look back at certain enemies and think; "Wow, that was a badass fight." I want to be able to kick back in some multiplayer bar, (awesome idea there for a social element into the game, have 'lobby' like bars where dozens, if not hunderds of players can socialise and sell their shit to each other,) and I want to be able to tell people about these badass fights and I want them to be impressed. The first time I killed a giant in Skyrim I thought it was awesome. A few days later, I was 2-shoting them in the head. I really want to avoid that.

The overall level of violence and gore is secondary for me to the quality of the violence.

All good points, well said.

 

[prosociety]

The overall level of violence and gore is secondary for me to the quality of the violence.

Hit the nail on the head. Violence's best friend is constant threat.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

Hit the nail on the head. Violence's best friend is constant threat.

And making sure that the type of threat changes. Gotta stay on your toes

 

[Mister_Lizard]

I think it can be a powerful storytelling device, but if it's there for its own sake, I'd just as soon do without.

If I just wanted to splatter hamburger / mince everywhere, there's LOADS of "zombie horde" games that fill that niche quite nicely. I'd like to believe CDPR is setting the bar a wee bit higher.

I agree with this. Gore for gore's sake loses it's impact. While violence is a large part of any Cyberpunk game, the visceral nature of violence comes from context. Like in Robocop, when Murphy is being dismembered by shotguns, it is not the gore that is really horrifying, it is the laughter and glee on the bad guy's faces as the systematically maim him that really gives the scene it's impact. Another example is Fight Club, When the main character is "destroying something beautiful", they don't show him breaking most of the bones in the man's face but rather the horrified looks of every one else as you hear the meaty blows just raining down. . To me this is more effective in portraying the visceral nature of that scene than showing the blows would have been. (I know that choice was made for fear of an X rating, shows how fucked the MPAA is).

I know the game will be violent and I want that violence to have an impact on the play experience. Make the violence visceral, give it context in which to be felt, and sure that means gore will be a part of it. But perhaps that gore will be the pregnant teen you just nailed with a stray round while you were defending yourself from a Booster Gang ambush.

 

[Garrison72]

Violence should not be overdone, then it feels cheap and loses impact. Blood efffects should be kept realistic. I don't need brains flying everywhere. It is and should be a violent game, but this is an aspect that takes discretion.

 

[Overdosing]

A great example ofhow not to do violence is Dragon Age 2.

Ugh...

 

[Neural_Cipher]

A modest amount of realistic gore will do me, i dont' think we need to see a red mist evaporating over half the screen, that really doesn't add anything.

I like the idea of making the scene the context horrifying and violent to get the message across but then in a modest way. No need to go mental about it.

 

[wisdom000]

I am all for violence, Ultraviolence, graphic and messed up, as long as its not cartoony bullshit violence.