Cyberpunk was never meant to be a super interactive sandbox like GTA, Rockstar has also perfected this style of game over decades whereas CDPR first attempt at anything like this and again this was never the focus of the game. The only thing that actually need an overhaul are the AI for npc, cars and police which is basically non-existant, also in a world where they claim everyone including the kids are packing heat NPC should definately be much more agressive if you attack them even shooting back at you, also in alledged combat zones like Pacifica the polcie shouldn't even arrive at all. But besides that I don't really want them to waste time on really minor things like tires flattening when you shoot them or other minor effects that are barely noticeable.
If it's not meant to be GTA, what kind of AI should it have then?
It looks like Deus Ex and GTA slapped together, but it lacks interactivity and complexity of systems of either.
Could you go elaborate on the Deus Ex comparison? Clearly this isn't trying to be Gta cause the only similarity here is the 3rd person camera while driving in a metropolis. A very shallow similarity. Gta doesn't have this verticality, interiors and density, no progression system, gear, loot, crafting, a massive non-linear dialogue tree.. and everything else that is not Gta. Sure Gta's pedestrian AI is better but that's what you get out of a rampage simulator as opposed to a narrative-driven, non-linear, immersive-sim that has the City serve only as a backdrop for the main focus: the non-linear narrative and the black-box missions. (Though I could get by the pedestrian AI but the police spawning system is just inexcusable.. ugh).
This can be compared to Deus Ex because it is the main influence. It's not black and gold in terms of aesthetics but the immersive-sim gameplay is there. I notice a bigger pool of weapon varieties here though, fewer air vents and no item grabbing/throwing physics but still has an abundant amount of other options in tackling each mission. Some have much more options than others. Let me hear your thoughts about how it's less complex than Deus Ex.
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This game is neither GTA, Deus Ex, Skyrim.., etc.
As far as I can tell it is a well polished partially realized beta. Late version beta. Story even feels out of place. Like they are saying "Look here! Yeah! Only here! Ignore the rest. We are working on it for release. just look here will you!".
When the game is done I'll consider taking it seriously.
Comparison to the Witcher ( 1 ) at release is more accurate. Though at least this game runs. Well if you have a PC. LOL! I never forget a terrible game. Just like a never forget a great one. I guess it is better to not be forget at all.
All that said, I love those comparison videos. Cracks me up every time! Especially since the put the date of the game just to rub a little salt in with that wound. Still unfair. Those games were solid on release and have had time for extra polish and add-on. Maybe in a year or 2 it will be more accurate to compare.
PEACE!!
As far as I can tell it is a well polished partially realized beta. Late version beta. Story even feels out of place. Like they are saying "Look here! Yeah! Only here! Ignore the rest. We are working on it for release. just look here will you!".
When the game is done I'll consider taking it seriously.
Comparison to the Witcher ( 1 ) at release is more accurate. Though at least this game runs. Well if you have a PC. LOL! I never forget a terrible game. Just like a never forget a great one. I guess it is better to not be forget at all.
All that said, I love those comparison videos. Cracks me up every time! Especially since the put the date of the game just to rub a little salt in with that wound. Still unfair. Those games were solid on release and have had time for extra polish and add-on. Maybe in a year or 2 it will be more accurate to compare.
PEACE!!
It doesn't try to be GTA, because GTA has a different focus. But it borrows heavily from GTA and creates much more shallow experience in the area of transportation and city interactivity. There's barely any pedestrian AI, no cop AI, almost non-existent physics etc. Large city and transportation aren't used in any way beyond riding from point A to point B.
Because GTA is about racing and shooting. It's not an RPG or an immersive sim. GTA understands it's identity. GTA is all about transportation and vehicular action. Of all kinds. From planes, cars, and parachutes to boats, bikes and helicopters. There is verticality, as you can fly a large plane into the sky and skydive to some roof. Or can base jump from a building. It's not an RPG, never was, never aimed to be. But in case of Cyberpunk or any other GTA clone, if you introduce some mechanic, you need to flesh it out. So if you can ride through a city and hit pedestrians or you can start a fight on some highway, this has to work well. And if it doesn't, how do you propose people to react? "Oh, it's no big deal, because it's about dialogue trees?" It doesn't work like that. If you can't do proper and organic vehicular action and robust pedestrian system, don't introduce them in your game.
This is backwards logic. GTA is a rampage simulator alright, but it doesn't give us some half-assed dialogue tree to boot. And what dialogue tree are you talking about? CP77 is linear AF. If you want something non-linear, go play Witcher 2. When reply choices affect something meaningful. With barely-existing city AI and physics in CP77, it's hard to talk about immersion.
It can and should be compared to GTA as well. Because mechanic is there. It's just insanely poor in comparison even to Watch Dogs. Which is ironic, considering that Ubi games are used like an example of "poor man's" or "how not to".
As for Deus Ex, last two games have much more refined stealth. Especially MD. It has less weaponry, but thanks to more tight game design, each of them has a purpose. There're no levels and stats. Just tools, that you can use any way you want. Non-lethal is properly defined. It's not some non-lethal ammo which is there for pure marketing. Takedowns have so much variety. Level design is also superior. You have many paths to use. And yeah, there are many vents, but it feels more like tradition of DX games, because the original has it's share of vents and other holes to go around. Looting in CP77 gives me headache. it's FAR better in DX games, because everything you pick up is useful one way or another depending on play style and thus looting things is interesting and exciting unlike in CP77, where you loot so much garbage and a million of guns with stats... Ugh. Coupled with poor interface, it's really hard to deal with itemization. Level interactivity is better in DX too. You can use environments much more by lifting and moving objects. And even use them to attack enemies, or black their path. Or hide. Add there genius idea to switch to 3rd person during locking to a surface, which gives it a super-cinematic yet practical feeling.
Where I feel CP77 is superior to DX is gunplay is more fluid and hacking is more interesting. Too bad it's too unbalanced and quickly loses it's appeal.
53hrs in and I don't see the Witcher 1 similarities. Please elaborate. Cause it feels a lot like The Witcher 3 to me. Pedestrian AI in TW3 are dumb af that couldn't go around Roach if he's blocking the road. Similarly here, if you block the road with your car, AI also doesn't bother going around your car. Can't kill civilians in TW3 so you don't get much of a reaction aside from them cowering from your threats. Pretty much the same here only it's like they made the peds killable. Guards and soldiers in TW3 would end their aggression when you're at a certain distance. Same thing here. Only difference is that the police spawning is much worse.
It also feels a lot like Deus Ex to me, and even a bit of Dying Light(I do a lot of light parkour traversing in this game). But with the huge variety of approach options, it's easy to say it's not because you're probably playing it in a style that's not reminiscent of Deus Ex but probably more like a shooter(Which is also a viable playstyle). And they said it themselves from the beginning that it's a major influence.
I also never forget a good experience. The dark mystery-noir themes, the intrigue in the side quests, the cast, and the aesthetically pleasing backdrop is something I won't forget in a long time adulatorily speaking.
Guess I'm on the opposite side of your spectrum. Sorry to hear you're not having a good time.
I'm not a fan of these GTA V vs Cyberpunk 2077 videos. Apple and Oranges.
GTA V story is a masterpiece open-world, but the story and role you play ? Meh.
Cyberpunk 2077 should, in my opinion, reinforce what makes it a unique game, which is its story, and maybe it's immersion (as Night City is an amazing setup, a lot more interesting than many other open worlds for me).
CDPR shouldn't try to mimic Rockstar, but compete with Larian and the old BioWare in reinforcing what makes RPG great & memorable.
As said in multiple threads, I'm fine with the game not having insane physics, crazy interactions with crowd npcs as long as they bring something to the RPG genre.
This is currently not the case, which is the biggest issue and improvment focus for me.
GTA V story is a masterpiece open-world, but the story and role you play ? Meh.
Cyberpunk 2077 should, in my opinion, reinforce what makes it a unique game, which is its story, and maybe it's immersion (as Night City is an amazing setup, a lot more interesting than many other open worlds for me).
CDPR shouldn't try to mimic Rockstar, but compete with Larian and the old BioWare in reinforcing what makes RPG great & memorable.
As said in multiple threads, I'm fine with the game not having insane physics, crazy interactions with crowd npcs as long as they bring something to the RPG genre.
This is currently not the case, which is the biggest issue and improvment focus for me.
Someone, who has played GTA5 shortly after the release, I remember the physic of GTA5 was a meme. Car jumped into sky, from the ramp the car was flying like a plane, ragdoll of pedestrian or yourself are rolling on 1 km long. Car handling was exactly awful like Cyberpunk 2077.
However, GTA5 was one-way fun for me and has very low replay value. I dont know what to do after the main story, mass murdering pedestrians? Side-quests were too few. No heist or looking crew for raiding without main story. No progress.
However, GTA5 was one-way fun for me and has very low replay value. I dont know what to do after the main story, mass murdering pedestrians? Side-quests were too few. No heist or looking crew for raiding without main story. No progress.
Well, that is exactly the purpose of it. Nothing more except to look aesthetically cool while getting from point A to B. I get that you were expecting more but that's just it. The whole setting is just a backdrop for its narratives and stories including the racing quests. I get your gripe and I agree with what you're calling them out for. But I still think the comparisons between gta and cyberpunk are pretty shallow because one is not trying to be the other but coincidentally needs familiar aspects in order to function. Yeah some are done worse because it serves a different function while others like the police spawning are just inexcusable. I could say CDPR are master storytellers and beautiful aesthetic designers but they have always been awful gameplay designers.
So I'm not even sure what you're arguing then. They're awful game designers thus awful city mechanic is working as intended and it's not a big deal because storytelling is good?
The ones i mentioned mainly npc, cars and police AI. Rockstar obsessively lets you interact with as many things as possible in the world because its all you really do in the game, Cyberpunk is RPG first, yeah it has an open-world that superficially resembles something from GTA with it being a modern looking city setting but thats more coincidental than an attempt to be a GTAlike game, we don't need to play all the arcade machines, shop at every ramen stand, be able to watch every BD etc. because doing quest, and building our character is the real focus of the game. Now I'm not saying the game wouldn't benefit at all from having more little mini-games and stuff to do but its definitely not the "point" of what they're trying to achieve with this game, I much rather just have more fleshed out rpg choices and character customization options in regards to cyberware than more side fluff to waste time on.
I've read several comments of you defending the current state of the game.GTA its more old and still with a lot of bugs. Your comparison, in my view, does not serve to try to reaffirm an opinion that, in my view, is very superficial about the game. But opinions differ ...happens
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At Steam Cyberpunk it continues to lead the world sales. Not long ago, The Witcher appears, I have the impression that this sentence of yours will not be realized.
I don't know what you want to achieve with this, but in any case it is more than FUNNY how you try to make something "positive/pretty" out of a more than critical situation.
GTA is pretty refined up to the smallest of details, that is what these fine folk here try to tell CDPR.
I sadly cant just hop into a cap in Night City and let the AI drive me to my destination, that wont happen, this is where the AI in GTA outshines the one in CP by a far.
The Police, I expected cool chases with them through NC, but all i do is simply run around the corner and keep going and after two blocks im fine.
If you promote and manage to build up such a hype, you surely compare your game to others in the genre.
Dont tell me that as a game developer this isnt something on your radar. xD
GTA may be old but still holds up today against titles like CP easily not even sure why you try to convince us that you cant compare the two, its like you just accept the current state, because there is plenty of money to gain from making memes.
The early trailer of CP was so good, and this game does, i repeat, does have so so much potential, it just was not used to its fullest and appears RUSHED.
Believe it or not but everyone here that is bringing up the time, to post about this, girls and guys who make suggestions, shows how much they want CP to work.
They all want it to become, the very craved "long term game" they thought it would.
But until then there is plenty of work to be done.
There are a lot of resources spent on BS, while a lot of important elements were completely ignored.
- Spend resources placing the garbage in the streets manually/ don't implement collision system.
- Make a lot of cool looking cars/ make them overlay each other or go away flying when the player spawn more then one of them.
- Make multiple missions and police activities, more than 100 of them/ player always have contact with fixer, intead of a direct approach with the quest giver, and only by phone messaging or text
- Make a crib for player to live/ force the player to sit to watch TV, leave weapons in cabin for them to be showed, unusable wardrobe, force the player to activate the mirror and unlink any kind of gameplay effect os having an apartment.
- Have tons of radio stations while driving/ have one or two background songs that play like blade runner in certain interactions, or some Doom ost that play while on combat, and place radios everywhere
- Make a lot of romance and meaningful friendship options/ Make all places unaviable for dating or doing side activities with friends, and make them completely ignore the player after their missions.
- Place hundreds of automatic sodas and food machines/ make food almost useless in gameplay and sodas an economic crafting exploit.
- Make the game avaiable for PC/ Make sure to place an advice that it's the game was meant to be played on a controller
- Make the game avaiable on ps4 and xbox one/ Make sure that the game doesn't work properly in those plataforms
- Do a lot of business partnerships about your new upcoming game/ Make the actual game with a lot of issues
- Place police officers/ Make them teleport and do unrealistic damage with poor AI.
- Spend resources placing the garbage in the streets manually/ don't implement collision system.
- Make a lot of cool looking cars/ make them overlay each other or go away flying when the player spawn more then one of them.
- Make multiple missions and police activities, more than 100 of them/ player always have contact with fixer, intead of a direct approach with the quest giver, and only by phone messaging or text
- Make a crib for player to live/ force the player to sit to watch TV, leave weapons in cabin for them to be showed, unusable wardrobe, force the player to activate the mirror and unlink any kind of gameplay effect os having an apartment.
- Have tons of radio stations while driving/ have one or two background songs that play like blade runner in certain interactions, or some Doom ost that play while on combat, and place radios everywhere
- Make a lot of romance and meaningful friendship options/ Make all places unaviable for dating or doing side activities with friends, and make them completely ignore the player after their missions.
- Place hundreds of automatic sodas and food machines/ make food almost useless in gameplay and sodas an economic crafting exploit.
- Make the game avaiable for PC/ Make sure to place an advice that it's the game was meant to be played on a controller
- Make the game avaiable on ps4 and xbox one/ Make sure that the game doesn't work properly in those plataforms
- Do a lot of business partnerships about your new upcoming game/ Make the actual game with a lot of issues
- Place police officers/ Make them teleport and do unrealistic damage with poor AI.
Why do people keep insisting on the argument if it's trying to be GTA or not? It has no relevance to the discussion at hand. GTA is being brought up as a comparison not because CP tries to be GTA, but because they have the same game system in the respective games. If we have a real-time first-person sword fighting system in two different games, does it mean one is trying to be the other? Not necessary.
So what do you want from NPC, cars and police AI in CP77? The more these system will be fleshed out, the more they will be resembling GTA and it's clones like Watch Dogs and Saints Row.
If we are being honest it is an alpha build that got polished. Because it has less features as the showcase of ingame stuff had back in 2018. So the alpha had more features as the released version? No way in hell.
And i have done more alpha and beta testing than i can count in my lifetime.
The Alpha of Swtor was fun. Literally nothing worked. Glitches left and right. And you could get rich by simply having hacking as your crew job which even got into the closed and later open beta build.
We reported stuff basically every 5 minutes and some of us had to make a few new characters to even finish the first quest. Yes it was that buggy. 2 months later and open beta build for everyone. To our surprise most of what didn't work 2 months before now worked like it was never an issue. Some of us managed to get max lvl to test endgame stuff (which was not much to test tough)
Why do i mention this? Because the difference between alpha and beta was like day and night. Which to us made it seem pointless to even test the alpha. If they already fixed almost anything why do we even test and outdated build? Turns out we didn't they literally spent 2 months around the clock in shifts to fix (with hundreds of devs) literally everything for the beta and then worked through the open beta to fix the rest.
Even one of the biggest companies out there still needed 2 months and shift working around the clock to fix the mess they produced to get a stable release version. And once the game was released guess which glitch that got reported since close alpha still was ingame? Yes the hacking to become rich in minutes glitch was still in the release version of the game. They didn't even ban ppl who still abused this afterwards as they mentioned it was their slip up in the first place. So the economy of the galactic market was broken from day one with ppl having almost an endless amount of money.
CDPR has less money. Less workers and sure as hell won't work in shifts around the clock after 8 years of crunch to fix everything in record time for us to enjoy a full fledged out cyperpunk in january.
Comparing them to GTA is also not a good idea. How much money and how many decades with their engines do they have for this specifical type of game? 20 years? Probably more.
Just let them do their work while we wait which i know is hard enough in 2020 when literally the entire year was nothing but a perfect example of how you toss a year into the can but shoving failures up their faces won't do us any good. Such things take time.
And i have done more alpha and beta testing than i can count in my lifetime.
The Alpha of Swtor was fun. Literally nothing worked. Glitches left and right. And you could get rich by simply having hacking as your crew job which even got into the closed and later open beta build.
We reported stuff basically every 5 minutes and some of us had to make a few new characters to even finish the first quest. Yes it was that buggy. 2 months later and open beta build for everyone. To our surprise most of what didn't work 2 months before now worked like it was never an issue. Some of us managed to get max lvl to test endgame stuff (which was not much to test tough)
Why do i mention this? Because the difference between alpha and beta was like day and night. Which to us made it seem pointless to even test the alpha. If they already fixed almost anything why do we even test and outdated build? Turns out we didn't they literally spent 2 months around the clock in shifts to fix (with hundreds of devs) literally everything for the beta and then worked through the open beta to fix the rest.
Even one of the biggest companies out there still needed 2 months and shift working around the clock to fix the mess they produced to get a stable release version. And once the game was released guess which glitch that got reported since close alpha still was ingame? Yes the hacking to become rich in minutes glitch was still in the release version of the game. They didn't even ban ppl who still abused this afterwards as they mentioned it was their slip up in the first place. So the economy of the galactic market was broken from day one with ppl having almost an endless amount of money.
CDPR has less money. Less workers and sure as hell won't work in shifts around the clock after 8 years of crunch to fix everything in record time for us to enjoy a full fledged out cyperpunk in january.
Comparing them to GTA is also not a good idea. How much money and how many decades with their engines do they have for this specifical type of game? 20 years? Probably more.
Just let them do their work while we wait which i know is hard enough in 2020 when literally the entire year was nothing but a perfect example of how you toss a year into the can but shoving failures up their faces won't do us any good. Such things take time.
There are some things people forget in these types of videos ,like the fact that rockstar has been doing these mechanics for over 20 years and through countless of games (many people myself included thought that Gta 5 was a step back compared to the physics and mechanics of gta 4)
and that its Cdprs first time doing these mechanics that even rockstar still struggles with
These types of videos also ignore the fact that Cyberpunk have much much better Main story ,characters ,side quests ,Level design ,Worldbuilding ,Lore and even gameplay variety ,even devs themselves said that you should not play this game as a GTA game because thats not their main aim and people who are disappointed by it should blame only themselves
Dont get me wrong there are still ton of missing features that i hope Cdpr ends up bringing back but comparing these types of vids are just pathetic and biased as fuck to make Cyberpunk to look as bad as possible
These types of videos also ignore the fact that Cyberpunk have much much better Main story ,characters ,side quests ,Level design ,Worldbuilding ,Lore and even gameplay variety ,even devs themselves said that you should not play this game as a GTA game because thats not their main aim and people who are disappointed by it should blame only themselves
Dont get me wrong there are still ton of missing features that i hope Cdpr ends up bringing back but comparing these types of vids are just pathetic and biased as fuck to make Cyberpunk to look as bad as possible
People is misunderstanding the main point here.
The main goal is not compare cyberpunk 2077 with GTA V, it's comparing the lack of physics, realistic damage, collision, AI, NPC reaction, relevant gameplay mechanics and immersion.
To wish that those elements are done right on Cyberpunk 2077 doesn't make it a "GTA V wannabe".
GTA V is usually mentioned because Rockstar got those elements right, and that's it.
But Cyberpunk 2077 is even lower in a lot of aspects when compared to Far Cry 5, GTA 3, Sleeping Dogs, Watch Dogs, The Saints Row - The Third, and so on.
The main goal is not compare cyberpunk 2077 with GTA V, it's comparing the lack of physics, realistic damage, collision, AI, NPC reaction, relevant gameplay mechanics and immersion.
To wish that those elements are done right on Cyberpunk 2077 doesn't make it a "GTA V wannabe".
GTA V is usually mentioned because Rockstar got those elements right, and that's it.
But Cyberpunk 2077 is even lower in a lot of aspects when compared to Far Cry 5, GTA 3, Sleeping Dogs, Watch Dogs, The Saints Row - The Third, and so on.
"it’s just the backwards compatible PS4 version on a stronger engine."
The next gen version is basically going to be visual upgrade with bit sharper textures and slightly better lightning and shadows essentially. If there is new content its most likely gonna be on all platforms
Its not like new consoles are some new technology theyre basically midrangey pcs with their own operating systems to put it bluntly.