Gta vs cyberpunk

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Things done better in Cyberpunk than GTA:
1) gunning --> weapon design is unique and fanstatic both in design, styles and variety in functionality (power, tech and smart weapons all behave differently)
2) melee --> lots of options in Cyberpunk, Katana, punches, Gorillas arms, manthis blades, mono-wire, blunt weapons. They all have different mechanis, they are not just for decoration
3) weapon modification --> non-existent in GTA
4) looting --> almost non existent in GTA, very rich in CP
5) character leveling --> almost non existent in GTA, very rich in CP
6) narrative --> actually not bad in GTA and I believe very underrated (Trevor fan here), but CP is on another level of quality
7) art styles --> vehicle, clothing, builings is just original and refreshing
8) music --> I mean just listen this. It's ever better than Doom Eternal, which was already phenomenal
9) quest design --> GTA is far too linear, if you deviate a tiny bit from what the developers had in mind, it's automatic failure

GTA on the other hand is more advanced in many other aspects (especially NPC driving, it is so realistc that Tesla tested its AI in this game before putting it into the road), but does not mean CP is shit. Why cannot we enjoy both?
1. That's questionable. GTA is not a futuristic game, and shooting through any number of walls is a bad design (the idea is nice but implementation is subpar).
2. That's fair.
3. Weapon modification in CP77 is so bad that you cannot really get a point here. For good weapon mods check Metro series.
4. Looting in CP77 is a busywork that provides only annoyance in gameplay, cannot agree to give a point here.
5. Leveling for the sake of leveling adds nothing to gameplay. Leveling should supplement unique style of gameplay. There are very few abilities that change gameplay style. But sure, we can stretch a point here.
6, 8. I already mentioned that the story and music are the only parts of CP77, where it clearly wins.
7. Are you seriously trying to give points for the art style by comparing new game with decades old games?
9. Besides several showcase quests the CP77 is also very linear. Your lifepath is just the first 15 minutes of the game, then no matter what background you had, you become a street kid. Most quests have only one way of solving them. So, here's just half-point.

And where are other at least 91 points that were promised in the post about "hundreds of features" that are better in CP77 than in GTA? So far I see only 3 clear points in favour of CP77 and 3 other questionable points. In total it adds to 6, not hundreds.
 
I mean, this was GOTY 2015..

I dunno how you could expect a ginormous leap in AI when the last game had this. Lol It'll prolly take 2 or more sequels/IPs in the catalogue for them to actually improve this. I mean, GTAv isn't what it is without its past iterations. And some even considered it to be a step back from 4.

The mistake here was the promise in the marketing. Had they had not kept going on and on about aspects like this, things probably would've turned out differently. People probably would've swallowed it easier.

If only they released a statement that would've been in the lines of: "Don't expect groundbreaking AI because this is a narrative-driven, open-world, action-adventure game 1st and foremost." instead of going on and on about the non-existent stuff. But we all know companies don't do that
 
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1. That's questionable. GTA is not a futuristic game, and shooting through any number of walls is a bad design (the idea is nice but implementation is subpar).
2. That's fair.
3. Weapon modification in CP77 is so bad that you cannot really get a point here. For good weapon mods check Metro series.
4. Looting in CP77 is a busywork that provides only annoyance in gameplay, cannot agree to give a point here.
5. Leveling for the sake of leveling adds nothing to gameplay. Leveling should supplement unique style of gameplay. There are very few abilities that change gameplay style. But sure, we can stretch a point here.
6, 8. I already mentioned that the story and music are the only parts of CP77, where it clearly wins.
7. Are you seriously trying to give points for the art style by comparing new game with decades old games?
9. Besides several showcase quests the CP77 is also very linear. Your lifepath is just the first 15 minutes of the game, then no matter what background you had, you become a street kid. Most quests have only one way of solving them. So, here's just half-point.

And where are other at least 91 points that were promised in the post about "hundreds of features" that are better in CP77 than in GTA? So far I see only 3 clear points in favour of CP77 and 3 other questionable points. In total it adds to 6, not hundreds.

Just a few clarification on some of my points based on your replies.
1) Gunning --> I meant recoil handling, gun stability etc... In GTA all feel "arcady" and unrealistic. You place a cursor on a target, and all bullets hit that exact sport. It does feel fake
7) Art styles --> I do not mean polygon counts or texture resolution. I mean the ability to create something really beautiful (car design, clothing, architectures). Some other games with outstanding art styles are Deus Ex Human Revolution, Disonhored 2
9) by linearity I mean in GTA you can literally fail missions by not doing exactly what the delopers had in mind in that specific order, much like previous Assassin Creed games (before Origins), All the beautiful sandbox world they created, sort of vanish when you start a mission

For the other points I do not comment since I pretty much agree with you. And of course there are not hundreds of features.
 
7) Art styles --> I do not mean polygon counts or texture resolution. I mean the ability to create something really beautiful (car design, clothing, architectures). Some other games with outstanding art styles are Deus Ex Human Revolution, Disonhored 2
9) by linearity I mean in GTA you can literally fail missions by not doing exactly what the delopers had in mind in that specific order, much like previous Assassin Creed games (before Origins), All the beautiful sandbox world they created, sort of vanish when you start a mission

CDPR has phenomenal artists. Can't say about the consistent fidelity but design-wise, yeah. Timeless. Even the past 3 AC games could probably beat it in graphical fidelity but never in design.

And I also like that there are no Game Over screens in Cyberpunk. I feel like people take that for granted and the amazingly fast loading times on SSD.
 
There is a reason why the vast majority of RPGs take place in fantasy worlds, the post apocalypse, unexplored planets, etc. and why the vast majority of RPGs that do take place in the modern world do not allow you to actually drive a car. That's because it's insanely difficult to create a good simulation of traffic in a city and how it responds to the player causing chaos. There are very few games that can do it, and those games build their entire brand around that one feature.

Cyberpunk isn't about vehicles, they could have cut driving out of the game entirely and it would still have been perfectly playable. You can't remove driving from GTA, being a carjacking sandbox is the whole point of it, and all the effort went toward making that part of the game shine. In Cyberpunk driving is a tacked on minigame that should have never pretended to be in the same league.

I think CDPR should have removed driving from the game entirely, or made it so that your car is driven by Delamain as a way to have immersive fast travel. The core gameplay of Cyberpunk wouldn't be affected if driving just wasn't part of the game, so having it there anyways as a half baked gimmick really accomplished nothing except open the game up to ridicule by people comparing it to a game where driving is the main event.
 
The AI is so stupid if you compared it to GTA. Even GTA 4 the old one.

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There is a reason why the vast majority of RPGs take place in fantasy worlds, the post apocalypse, unexplored planets, etc. and why the vast majority of RPGs that do take place in the modern world do not allow you to actually drive a car. That's because it's insanely difficult to create a good simulation of traffic in a city and how it responds to the player causing chaos. There are very few games that can do it, and those games build their entire brand around that one feature.

Cyberpunk isn't about vehicles, they could have cut driving out of the game entirely and it would still have been perfectly playable. You can't remove driving from GTA, being a carjacking sandbox is the whole point of it, and all the effort went toward making that part of the game shine.

I think CDPR should have removed driving from the game entirely, or made it so that your car is driven by Delamain as a way to have immersive fast travel. The core gameplay of Cyberpunk wouldn't be affected if driving just wasn't part of the game, so having it there anyways as a half baked gimmick really accomplished nothing except open the game up to ridicule by people comparing it to a game where driving is the main event.
I was told that it tooks 5 years for GTA and 7+ year for cyberpunk. Why can't they do that?
 
I was told that it tooks 5 years for GTA and 7+ year for cyberpunk. Why can't they do that?

Because the effort went into entirely different aspects of the game. Compare GTAs combat system, character system, narrative system, world detail etc. to Cyberpunk, see how they stack up there. Obviously that's where Cyberpunk is strong and GTA does just enough to couch the vehicle simulation in on foot gameplay that doesn't drag down the game, but still makes people want to steal another car instead of walk places.

Cyberpunk wants you to walk down the street and look around back alleys, which is why they put secrets there and scatter enemy encounters around the city. GTA wants you to steal a car and get into a giant police chase while you rush to your next objective, which is why they don't put anything on the side of the road that you could miss if you just scream past.
 
I was told that it tooks 5 years for GTA and 7+ year for cyberpunk. Why can't they do that?
Because GTA is a crime game that requires reactive pedestrian and police AI and proper crime mechanics and it has past iterations to improve upon. Cyberpunk is not a crime game and doesn't have any past iterations to improve upon the same way The Witcher 3 improved from Witcher 1 and 2. Then a build of Cyberpunk was scrapped in 2016-17'ish so that makes it 3-4 years in actual development.

It is a story and questing focused game and does not care about having proper crime mechanics. That said, I don't excuse the horrendous police spawning.
 
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Because GTA is a crime game that requires reactive pedestrian and police AI and proper crime mechanics and it has past iterations to improve upon. Cyberpunk is not a crime game and doesn't have any past iterations to improve upon the same way The Witcher 3 improved from Witcher 1 and 2. Then a build of Cyberpunk was scrapped in 2016-17'ish so that makes it 3-4 years in actual development.

It is a story and questing focused game and does not care about having proper crime mechanics. That said, I don't excuse the horrendous police spawning.
I don't see how GTA and Cyberpunk are different in that matter. Both games revolve around you doing dirty jobs. In GTA those are your own dirty jobs for your direct profit. In Cyberpunk, you do other people's dirty jobs for profit and fame. You're committing crimes through the whole playthrough of Cyberpunk and there is no proper police system that challenges you. The bit about past iterations is definitely true, this is their first try at making this kind of game.
 
Because GTA is a crime game that requires reactive pedestrian and police AI and proper crime mechanics and it has past iterations to improve upon. Cyberpunk is not a crime game and doesn't have any past iterations to improve upon the same way The Witcher 3 improved from Witcher 1 and 2. Then a build of Cyberpunk was scrapped in 2016-17'ish so that makes it 3-4 years in actual development.

It is a story and questing focused game and does not care about having proper crime mechanics. That said, I don't excuse the horrendous police spawning.

Yep, they could totally removed police and the game will be the same.

Alternative design choices:
1) force a game over and reload when the player engage in terroristic / civilian slaughtering activities --> this is what Assassin Creed games do ("Ezio did not kill civilians, continue to do that and you will be de-synched from Animus")
2) make civilian immortal / unkillable --> this is what Witcher 3 did, like many RPGs before it

If CDPR want to improve police AI, they first need to give valid reason to commit crimes which are not just terrorist activieis. an example could be corporate stealing or sabotage, assassination of key corporate target in public streets etc...
 
I don't see how GTA and Cyberpunk are different in that matter. Both games revolve around you doing dirty jobs. In GTA those are your own dirty jobs for your direct profit. In Cyberpunk, you do other people's dirty jobs for profit and fame. You're committing crimes through the whole playthrough of Cyberpunk and there is no proper police system that challenges you. The bit about past iterations is definitely true, this is their first try at making this kind of game.
No. Let me make it clear for you because even the "dirty jobs" are vastly different than you think.

GTA is purposely designed to be a crime simulator sandbox so it requires NPCs outside missions to be heavily reactive. You can rob innocent peds of money aside from killing them. If you do kill them, money pops up. And most of what you're doing in the open-world are car chases against the police and robbing.

Cyberpunk is still a quest focused game that actually has you on the side of the police. They constantly call you to do mercenary work against city scum and they do not send you to do actual crimes against innocent pedestrians in the open world. Fixers are the ones that sends you to do morally grey missions but that is more of like isolated combat events that still have you going against more city scums rather than open-world shenanigans. You cannot even rob pedestrians of money and most of the open-world combat icons on the map are actually jobs given out by the Police. Peds are just there as backdrop and collateral damage.

The moment you realize that you can't even pull out your gun from the car to do vehicle combat outside quests, should be the moment you realize that car chases against the police or generally going against the police is not part of the design. They are just there for the simple purpose of punishing collateral damage. The same way the guards in The Witcher 3 attack and rob you for stealing(they don't even send you to jail).


Yep, they could totally removed police and the game will be the same.

Alternative design choices:
1) force a game over and reload when the player engage in terroristic / civilian slaughtering activities --> this is what Assassin Creed games do ("Ezio did not kill civilians, continue to do that and you will be de-synched from Animus")
2) make civilian immortal / unkillable --> this is what Witcher 3 did, like many RPGs before it

If CDPR want to improve police AI, they first need to give valid reason to commit crimes which are not just terrorist activieis. an example could be corporate stealing or sabotage, assassination of key corporate target in public streets etc...

I could seriously consider number 2. But that would be tricky because vehicle collateral damage is inevitable in this kind of map. So I think they opted for an extremely light crime system that does only 2 things: either one-shots you if you persistently commit big scale homicides or just simply taps your wrist if you accidentally hit someone. All in all, they just don't care about having a fleshed out crime system like gta because the game is focused somewhere else.

I still wished they cared just a little bit just to fix the police spawning inside walls. lol
 
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Even the 48 minute demo had way more life in it than the released game we have now. What happened exactly? Did CDPR purposely cut content to meat a deadline or something?

You may have missed the disclaimer at the top of that says 'Work in progress: Does not represent the final look of the game'
 
game of the decade? can't even meet 2014 standards. [...]
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You may have missed the disclaimer at the top of that says 'Work in progress: Does not represent the final look of the game'
since when does work in progress mean, half of what you see is being removed instead of stuff will be added.

If it did mean that, these vids would be worthless, which in hindsight, it was, for us. For them it was a marketing lie
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9) by linearity I mean in GTA you can literally fail missions by not doing exactly what the delopers had in mind in that specific order, much like previous Assassin Creed games (before Origins), All the beautiful sandbox world they created, sort of vanish when you start a mission

For the other points I do not comment since I pretty much agree with you. And of course there are not hundreds of features.
[/QUOTE]
while cyberpunk doesn't let you fail missions, it will often only let you progress in the pre determained ways. Like locking you from jumping, running, driving, shooting or bassicaly any action during many parts of many missions
 
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since when does work in progress mean, half of what you see is being removed instead of stuff will be added.
Don't exaggerate. I'm playing the game right now. A few things were removed from the 48 min demo on retail. But half of that demo didn't even showcase all the features and skills of the retail version. So it's far from half. Never even knew parkour was so viable and I also could do this:
..totally wrecks wall running.


What is not in the game are things that were verbally promised. We never even got to see those verbally promised features in action in any of the trailers. 2018's demo is far from half of what the retail has.

I mean, huge complex crowd behaviors + Huge dialogue trees + RPG mechanics + Extremely fast load times, and metropolis rendering will seriously burn poor last-gen HDDs to crisps. I don't get how anyone could believe that kind of promise. They gotta compromise somewhere. Even RDR2 compromised the loading screen, dialogue trees, and gear/upgrade mechanics, crowd density to accommodate physics and AI.
 
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why not
You know, CP77 was supposed to be RPG initially, then they changed it into action-adventure story game, which is exactly what GTA is and, thus, comparison more than appropriate if CDPR states that their game is from the same genre as GTA. Sure, the story and music is better in CP77 but everything else is not even close. Notice that a lot of people still think that CP77 is an RPG, despite official CDPR description lists it as action adventure.
Why not this could be the perfect motivation for corpo in CP...
Do tell...
REDRUM post, you could've just put a silencer on that puppy hehe, there is no need to bring out the big guns.
 
I never played GTA V but man, it looks great in those videos. I mean I get CP2077 was supposed to be more RPG than open-world sim but the "open world" was an aspect of the game that was heavily hyped in marketing. The actual game we got seems to me to be a visual novel in an RPG's clothing. And please note that they only changed the description of the game to "action-adventure" like last week. All thorough development this game has been touted as the next best thing in RPGs.

I refunded the game before I got far enough into it thanks to bugs, crashes and performance issues so I can only comment on the "Let's Play" VODs I've seen but man, everything in those videos just vindicates my choice to refund and confirms that I made the right decision. TW2 & TW3 were amazing. GWENT is a great card game. They dropped the ball with this one.

The combat looks basic as hell, the RPG systems look paper thin and the choices/story elements seem as though they largely don't matter and don't influence how the game is played (in contrast to something like Disco Elysium where the skills you choose and choices you make heavily influence the narrative you're presented with). My personal opinion on it is that it simply wanted to be too many things. It wanted to be GTA. It wanted to be The Witcher. It wanted to be Deus Ex. It wanted to be a visual novel with branching paths. Turns out it can only mimic the basic aspects of each of those.

Hell, it SHOULD have been developed as the new "Deus Ex", perfect IP for a game of that type, but...they didn't go that way.
 
What CDPR currently has is a solid base with a great Story...
The skillsystem is a something they can build upon.
(For example if i add something to my clothes it could be, visual instead of just a slot which is filled in the inventory.)
You did that with the gun attachments, but why stop there?
You made a Game that goes into the direction of Prey which was first showcased as some sort of headhunter style game which got later ditched, this, sure it does not have aliens but nobody expected that anyways.
It is this futuristic style, where the possibilitys, be it in creative terms or visual are pretty much endless, as a game designer, environment artists, asset designer, this game must be a dream come true to work on (crazy gun types - which it already has, a city with new features just think of something and implement it. And you did a good job in all these layers but you havent filled it with life.
What im trying to say is, that the style itself is unique and probably something we all waited for so many years to finally hit the market. Excuse my language but Sh!t i was super hyped when i first saw prey and was crushed when they ditched it and started new.
And i have to be clear once again, you already did a splendid job when it comes to that.
I just hoped for so much more, not sure if anyone of you watched the movie fifth element, i expected to see flying vehicles if only a marginal amount. And you do have them just not for the use or for the protagonist to interact which is a bummer!
WHY ???
Explore Night city - i was expecting some real crazy gunplay, jumping across multiple rooftops fighting gangs and cops and just having a great time, without having to worry about some story - i hoped for some sort of endgame content.
At this point im unsure what mutiplayer should bring to the table, i simply cant imagine it currently - even though i hope you do it and teach me wrong.
I also do not think that this drop has already been sucked, I sincerly hope that CDPR-TEAM steps into the shoes of HelloGames here and improves this game and tries to tickle the best possible out of it, because the potential is huge!
It must also be said that this is a completely new division for CDPR and therefore probably not everything is perfect, but you can learn from it - build on it and then develope a subsequent game that does just these things right from the start.
Since comparisons are made here with GTA, I will do this again at this point. GTA 1-2 was nothing more than a 2D game where you could shoot, drive and fart.
Here, implementations were made little by little, these were adopted and built upon and refined each time.
The result of exactly that approach, can be found in RDR2 today, which also has a completely different style but performs very well in every aspect and also provides the visual quality.
You already have the visuals !!! Now enjoy the festivals and get back to work Samurai !
Merry XMAS
 
What CDPR currently has is a solid base with a great Story...
The skillsystem is a something they can build upon.
(For example if i add something to my clothes it could be, visual instead of just a slot which is filled in the inventory.)
You did that with the gun attachments, but why stop there?
You made a Game that goes into the direction of Prey which was first showcased as some sort of headhunter style game which got later ditched, this, sure it does not have aliens but nobody expected that anyways.
It is this futuristic style, where the possibilitys, be it in creative terms or visual are pretty much endless, as a game designer, environment artists, asset designer, this game must be a dream come true to work on (crazy gun types - which it already has, a city with new features just think of something and implement it. And you did a good job in all these layers but you havent filled it with life.
What im trying to say is, that the style itself is unique and probably something we all waited for so many years to finally hit the market. Excuse my language but Sh!t i was super hyped when i first saw prey and was crushed when they ditched it and started new.
And i have to be clear once again, you already did a splendid job when it comes to that.
I just hoped for so much more, not sure if anyone of you watched the movie fifth element, i expected to see flying vehicles if only a marginal amount. And you do have them just not for the use or for the protagonist to interact which is a bummer!
WHY ???
Explore Night city - i was expecting some real crazy gunplay, jumping across multiple rooftops fighting gangs and cops and just having a great time, without having to worry about some story - i hoped for some sort of endgame content.
At this point im unsure what mutiplayer should bring to the table, i simply cant imagine it currently - even though i hope you do it and teach me wrong.
I also do not think that this drop has already been sucked, I sincerly hope that CDPR-TEAM steps into the shoes of HelloGames here and improves this game and tries to tickle the best possible out of it, because the potential is huge!
It must also be said that this is a completely new division for CDPR and therefore probably not everything is perfect, but you can learn from it - build on it and then develope a subsequent game that does just these things right from the start.
Since comparisons are made here with GTA, I will do this again at this point. GTA 1-2 was nothing more than a 2D game where you could shoot, drive and fart.
Here, implementations were made little by little, these were adopted and built upon and refined each time.
The result of exactly that approach, can be found in RDR2 today, which also has a completely different style but performs very well in every aspect and also provides the visual quality.
You already have the visuals !!! Now enjoy the festivals and get back to work Samurai !
Merry XMAS

That was the idea, but they made a GTA in terms of design. Nothing new, exact polygons ... exact lights, and that brought an infinite number of limitations to the game, design. They are beautiful, no doubt, but the general conception of the game failed and failed hard because it sought realism and the comparative would be realism, the CD did not foresee this. Here the problems began. It is about conception.

They made a futuristic GTA with poor mechanics ... a dubious story and storyline, nothing new, they did not present anything new, on the contrary. There are many qualities, techniques, in particular, but they have found limits in hardware.

CP failed in its design, the rest was a cascade of events that prove it. This does not demean their developers, except for their directions, but they made the most serious mistakes I mention here.

A game that dies in itself, not only because of its limits and eventual bugs ... but in the narrative, in the general idea and the world that - literally - dies after some stories. Night City becomes, after completing the story, the Dead City.
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By order

Illustrators, Modelers, animators (from RIG to the production of animations), ambience, engineers. These, my appreciation and they did real miracles in the game.

Where did they go wrong? Those above did not make mistakes, they just followed what they were told to do. Those above are the 'gold of the house' CDPR. The rest, I personally would fire them. They literally ruined an idea by sheer arrogance of 'not listening'. But that is just my opinion.
 
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