Gta vs cyberpunk

[GrimReaper801]

30% is not that conservative, it is pretty spot on. Of course they have their own digital distribution platform that I haven't factored in, but typical revenue figures are 10M for every 500k units shipped.

I didn't say it's a failure, just that I doubt 317M is accurate and the final quality of the game does not match that budget. If they really did and the typical rate holds true, then it kind of is a failure. At least by industry standards. They recouped their expenses and made some change so for me it's a win. They certainly made back enough to finish the game, they could have made even more had they finished it in the first place. Anyway; Let's say it is true, just for some gamer science lab shit. Rule of thumb is that you spend 2-4 times what your production budget is to really hit the big time.

CDPR does things on the cheap as much as possible and self-publishes though, even when we consider they went all out for this it's not likely they went as deep pockets as another studio would have attempting this. How much did they really spend on just the game? Outside of just running standard media blitz we have Keanu Reeves, Run The Jewels, A$AP Rocky, Grimes, music videos, etc... So, maybe the release quality does match the production budget?

Steam is obviously where the game sold the most units. and it goes down to 20% after the first 50M (25% between 10-50M). EPIC only takes 12% no matter what and GOG, for obvious reasons, is 100% in CDPR's pockets. Etc for other sellers.

Hence why I said the 30% across the board is conservative. I would really like to know what are the market share between platforms as far CP2077's sales are concerned.

I'd say the 317M budget could very well be accurate. Let's not forget that a lot of senior developers left during CP2077 development. The game did go through a problematic development. That much has been documented and would explain the final result.

Now I won't argue that there isn't a very substantial amount of money that went into stuff that would've been better invested had it been injected in the game's development itself. As much as I like Keanu Reeves, he wasn't necessary and it's probably quite a few millions that went into getting him in the game. Amongst other things.

 

[BabaBooey88]

Now I won't argue that there isn't a very substantial amount of money that went into stuff that would've been better invested had it been injected in the game's development itself. As much as I like Keanu Reeves, he wasn't necessary and it's probably quite a few millions that went into getting him in the game. Amongst other things.

True. What were the details on the engine for 2077? Did they make large overhauls or build an almost entirely new one. Proprietary engine development usually runs 40M

 

[GrimReaper801]

True. What were the details on the engine for 2077? Did they make large overhauls or build an almost entirely new one. Proprietary engine development usually runs 40M

It's a major upgrade of the REDengine 3 they used for TW3. How extensive of an upgrade it is, I have no idea.

 

[Arcafonk]

Lots more mesh density with this one than with TW3 imo. All physic rework. The IA costs were too much as we see the results.
The quest engine is pretty much the same. And of course, RTX stuff, but I don't know if the NVidia API are costy to implement or not. They develloped without, and remade the ligth for RTX => costs are more that what it should.
Lots of work have been made on streaming ad memory management if you compare with TW3. I don't know much about what Vulkan does too, and if they used that rendering or not.

 

[BabaBooey88]

All physic rework. The IA costs were too much as we see the results.

Neither are good. When I saw an enemy 'trip' over a dead body I got excited thinking this game would have crazy levels of collisions and immersions in the combat, nope. Turns out it was some error where meshes colliding causes a live NPC to go limp. NPC bodies getting stuck on your car can send it twirling into the sky, and so on. Explosions result in bodies going limp and then falling over from residual force, blah blah you get it.

Now they either implement something decent or the game won't shake it's meme status. Could've been avoided.

 

[Mentos3]

Even assuming a very conservative 30% seller's cut across the board, that's still 546M. Minus the 317 budget, 229M in pure profit.

Not a bad haul I'd say

The 229 mio. have to pay for 2 Story-DLCs and a multiplayer to make a Witcher 4 on the long run happen, too.
Profit in the next few months with CP will be not that high, imho.
They sold the biggest part on PC and PC-games dips much faster in price then the console-copies. What is not that important because CP is not really hot on old gen. Next Gen is still counted in low millions and until the game is not back in the PS-Store, nobody with a digital PS5 can buy it, I think.

They lost about a year fixing CP2077, instead of working 100% on their next paycheck. The first paid DLC was planned for 2021 (not seeing it on the roadmap) and the next gen upgrade for spring instead fall. What is a huge time period between release and upgrade.

So, if the MP isn't a success I see hard times for CDPR coming. Or they will make a kind of low budget Witcher 4.

 

[zqfmgb123]

There's no way they're releasing multiplayer for CP2077. They'd have to rework ALL of V's gonk-ass animations. Seriously look at V's shadows when doing anything in game, it looks like they hired a high school student learning how to 3D animate to work on them. You think players will want to play the game and see other players moving like that?

 

[GrimReaper801]

The 229 mio. have to pay for 2 Story-DLCs and a multiplayer to make a Witcher 4 on the long run happen, too.
Profit in the next few months with CP will be not that high, imho.
They sold the biggest part on PC and PC-games dips much faster in price then the console-copies. What is not that important because CP is not really hot on old gen. Next Gen is still counted in low millions and until the game is not back in the PS-Store, nobody with a digital PS5 can buy it, I think.

They lost about a year fixing CP2077, instead of working 100% on their next paycheck. The first paid DLC was planned for 2021 (not seeing it on the roadmap) and the next gen upgrade for spring instead fall. What is a huge time period between release and upgrade.

So, if the MP isn't a success I see hard times for CDPR coming. Or they will make a kind of low budget Witcher 4.

You and I had this exact conversation not so long ago and you're providing the exact same arguments you did back then bringing forth no new one.

Let's not rehash this conversation in a completely unrelated thread.

Your position is doom and gloom, mine isn't. Let's leave it at that.

 

[gregski]

So let's go back on topic, please.

 

[dadone86]

Cdpr are a smalldev compared to rockstar who are the literal masters of the genre. We expected too much

Yeah, it's clearly our fault. How dare we.

 

[GethroShepard]

The videos are interesting.

Why use GTA against Cyberpunk? They don't have emphasis on the same points. But, truth to be told, if we compare CP to an other game using the same "story driven action game", CP will lose 9 out of 10.

Just an exemple : The Yakuza series.
Story-driven. Lot of empasis on the cinematic and the characters... Let make a match!

Graphics : Egality. Yes, the cities in Yakuza are a lot lot smaller, but they are filled to the brim with details. And the characters are good in the two games. A matter of taste in fact.

Action : For the long-range one, CP is the winner. Lot of guns and game mechanics for it. Close fighting, Yakuza. And by far.

RPG : Yakuza. The inventory has a meaning, items and perks works.

Branching stories : CP. Yakuza tell a story. Only one story by game.

Storytelling : Yakuza. A real movie with really good travelling, zoom and other cinematic moves. Beats the First Person View easily.

Driving : CP. Yakuza had none. Or really poor one.

Side activities : Yakuza. Loads of restaurants with specific menues, arcade games, real estate...

Town looking alive : Yakuza. Not only because NPC have an AI. You are IN a japanese town. Total immersion...



See?
It is not a demolition simulator. It is a mature game with heavy stories. And even the first one launched on the PS2 has a lot of points against CP2077.
By bringing out the cars, the guns, the mature content and the explosives, CP2077 makes himself a target of comparison with Rockstar's game.

For now, I pull my punch. This game is not finished. When all the patches are out, we will finally see what CDPR wanted for this franchise and how far or close they wanted it against GTA.

Yes, in Yakuza, the NPC can do a LOT of things...

 

[Manusia]

tldw; $850M+ vs $300M

 

[batouyukinawa]

GTAV Mission design - extremely linear, only one outcome, no variation or alternate way to tackle objective - one exception to this being the missions where you need procure a type of vehicle.
Combat - Sticky cover wack-o-mole fire fights where enemies barely flank you or even use advanced tactics against you - basically a horde mode
Story - Subjective but ultimately massively overrated in my opinion - I dislike pretty much all of them other than Franklin
Graphics - Looked good for last gen - very dated lighting - last gen level assets and character models

Cyberpunk missions design - Very open - multiple ways to approach objective other than a couple missions - no real missions failed other than losing someone you're tailing
Comat - Multiple styles - melee - full stealth system - hacking - run and gun - duck and cover - enemies although bugged at times will use many different tactics - they flank you - rush when in numbers - give up - retreat to obtain better cover - toss grenades - hack you - probably other things I'm missing
Story - Subjective but I find many of the stories in CP to grip me on a level I'm still thinking about them now - many likeable characters too including the character you play
Graphics - Next gen in every way - arguably the best looking game out today if you're looking at it on next gen hardware

 

[reaper1]

Graphics - Looked good for last gen - very dated lighting - last gen level assets and character models

That's because they are "last gen". In fact, they were upgraded from the "gen" before. It may please you to know that a "next gen" update is being released for GTAV which should sort that out. Otherwise, you are trying to downplay the unfavourable comparisons to GTAV that have been rightly made. They are very different games, but the areas they do have in common show how poorly CP2077 was put together.

 

[msxyz]

Linear mission design is the weakest part of any Rockstar game. Said this, the way they implement open worlds is a notch or two above anyone else, not only CDPR.

Though, I would say that even Bethesda, for all its faults, still has a 'touch of love' in the way they create their open worlds that CP2077 is sorely lacking.

 

[fjdgshdkeavd]

I enjoyed cyberpunk considerably more than gta v. But, the open world in gta v is undeniably more functional.

 

[Spectral_Warrior]

When it comes to GTA 5 (online) I have always had these point of critisism, where GTA is inferior to cyberpunk.

Enemy AI.
The enemies in gta are not smart in any regard whatsoever. They only use their main armament (99% of the time some form of rifle.) And they have wicked good aim and gun in general are stupidly deadly.
Their 'use of cover' is laughable. When they actually hide, but as soon as they want to attack they expose themselves rediculously much.
CP77 offsets this with an AI that is able to use abilities (grenades, netrunner actions, fire from near full cover, try to flank) yes granted, it can still do with improvements, but CP beats gta in the bush.
Also, sidenote gta's damage calculation is fcking retarded, but as I said, lethality by sheer virtue of accuracy and damage itself does not make a smart AI.

World.
GTA looks nice, for a 2020 semi tropical earthy location very similar to los angeles of whatever. But is the world alive? I think not so much. The livelyness mostly stems from you causing a reaction by running someone over or shoot someone. And the reaction is either panic or shoot back.
Nobody is interactable in a meaningfull way, and I definately care about no single pedestrian or other if I flat them underneath a car.
Also the world is only vertically interesting because you can fly, but the city or hills have zero going on. I cant enter anything other than a store that has only 1 purpose. The few tall building in the city create nothing of interesting vertical possibilities. Often you cant climb more than 1 or 2 stories high.

Characters.
Maybe its me, but I could care less for any of the characters in GTA, which is why nowadays I've switched only to online when I decide to play it. Franklin was the most interesting, but in the end I couldnt care wether they'd be run over by a bus final destination style.
The missions also largely are the same formula of do this, go there, fetch that... And as said, it only goes in one way.

Economy
Try earning some scratch to buy a car.
Everything is goddamn expensive and useless afterwards, or not even attainable.
In Online its even worse because you cán buy interesting vehicles and such but completely useless afterwards. Half the stuff isn't even usable as a solo player or locked out from virtually everything other than PvP.

Controls and mechanics (and their explanation)
Remember your first time using a cargobob? What a piece of shit controls, specifically in online.
But it doesnt stop there. Movement, try turning around a sharp corner: get stuck on the edge of the wall. Want to turn back around... Janky as hell. 3rd person shooting, get snuffed while your camera is still behind the building.
The only saving grace gta has was it driving controls and car handling. This is where gta is vastly superior... But its only that.

I will not go into the multiplayer missions as it would not be fair in a way, but I feel it should be noted, gta online has MANY content locked away by a 2 player minimum requirement, and/or need to be in public session (which are toxic as fck)

Which leaves me with a very important question. (This is highly subjective ofc)
If you find yourself ever feeling something for this game (which happens not very often)
What even am I playing the game for? Its literally a dull sandbox or mildly engaging story at best. And any sense of influence is taken right out the gate.

CP has a good story setup and potential to become much more.
Again dont get me wrong, CP has issues. But if CDPR wills it, they can make it a gem of untapped worth with riches GTA will simply never have.

 

[batouyukinawa]

Bethesda? Seriously? You obviously have no idea how broken Skyrim was. Fallout 3 was also broke as hell at launch.
Compared Bethesda CP is a freaking polished masterpiece on PC.

That's because they are "last gen". In fact, they were upgraded from the "gen" before. It may please you to know that a "next gen" update is being released for GTAV which should sort that out. Otherwise, you are trying to downplay the unfavourable comparisons to GTAV that have been rightly made. They are very different games, but the areas they do have in common show how poorly CP2077 was put together.

Nothing you can do to make that game next gen. Mission structure, combat systems, the very controls are dated. No, not trying to downplay CP's faults at all. No need, there's a plethora of "CP is trash" videos on Youtube. I'm trying to help with moral, and remind those who feel disheartened how amazing this game still is.

Also, I'd like to note how much of a downgrade GTAV was from GTAIV yet no one seemed to cry about it back then. What, GTAV had better graphics, yet every single other aspect of the game was a full on downgrade.

 

[tripleking]

GTA 5 was one of the best looking next gen for 2013... GTA is about realism with a normal/ordinary world not sci-fi so of course the excitement in gameplay is different then Cyberpunk 2077 which is in the future and the world is full of sc-fi / fantasy but still twisted with realism.

What makes GTA so great is the attention to details the devs created to give the player the feeling of somewhat "realism"
GTA 4 is insane realism and that game is from 2008.. while GTA 5 was semi-realism. the gun play of GTA 4 & 5 is satisfying because of the realistic ragdolls. I believe that CDPR could have delivered the same attention to detail level like Rockstar did for their games. people say that Rockstar had experience with their past gta games and they use that as a excuse.
GTA san andreas has currently more logic & attention to details then cyberpunk which was mind blowing considering it was from 2004. Now you have to understand the technology limitation back in those days " 2004, 2008 & 2013 " CDPR made amazing games like witcher series & helped development for saints row 2.. CDPR also had amazing experiences and are fully fledged developers like Rockstar developers. CDPR worked on Cyberpunk 2077 with newer technology then Rockstar had back in 2004-2008 & 2013... and because of the bad management of CDPR dev team.. it has lead to this..
and yes that means Cyberpunk 2077 current state makes it look bad compared to many other games. the only thing CDPR did the best of all those past games is the advertisement of cyberpunk 2077.. i think they achieved the best advertised / promoted game in gaming history. for past years people only thought of Cyberpunk 2077 and even other game studio's were worried when Cyberpunk release was April 16th it literally forced other games that had same release date to be pushed further.. and this happened each time Cyberpunk got delayed.. other game companies literally tried to ran away from Cyberpunk 2077 to avoid getting crushed in sales.. I guess CDPR learned their lesson in the harsh way & wont make the same mistake twice.

 

[batouyukinawa]

I enjoyed cyberpunk considerably more than gta v. But, the open world in gta v is undeniably more functional.

Certainly have more pointless boring mini games, that's for sure lol.

Post automatically merged: Feb 17, 2021

Certainly have more pointless boring mini games, that's for sure lol.

GTAV competes against itself. The story and open world are at odds.
NPC's are fun to screw around with for a while, but ultimately this world you boast about,
this world that is so realistic and deep, I can't even come across a couple NPC's having
a conversation. CP has hundreds of these situations breathing life into the world. The
lore behind the city and the universe is so much more engaging. Even the very cars
you jack have detailed history backstories that makes that all the more real. The City has
this ever present theme and you constantly reminded of the oppressive
realities of late stage capitalism.