gun mechanics

[Poet_and_Gentleman.598]

gun mechanics

What are your views on realism in this game vis-a-vis gun mechanics?

I think it makes sense to have stats dictate things like gun maintenance skills or recoil. or some special abilities like quickdraw or whatever.
I just don`t think that RPG rules translate very well into a RPG with 1st person POV.

I am a big fan of games like the ARMA series (and the original Operation Flashpoint) and I hope the devs use these games as starting point and inspiration for gunfighting mechanics.

Also, it would allow for more realistic economics.Since most firearms are fairly equal in firepower, game balance issues become much less prominent. I always thought it was illogical in games to have a 9mm pistol at 35$ and a 10 mm pistol at 5000$ and 10 times more powerful.

other factors such as location, availability,needs of a given group,concealability, range become more important.

I know that this will be modded eventually, but it would be nice to have the option to play like this out of the box.

PS: I never played PnP RPGs so if my opinion is ignorant of the original CP2020, it is because it is lol. I am huge fan of System Shock 2, blade runner,etc.

I also know I am most likely going to be the odd man out , but hey,you know what patton said, if everyone thinks the same, someone isn't thinking hehe.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

...and CUE SCHIFF and his inevitable rant about how realism has nothing to do with gaming and multiplayer FPS theory...
I am willing to put money on him mentioning the word 'Hitscan' at least 3 times in his first post in this thread.


Anyway...

I am all for realism. The Interlock PnP game mechanics attempted to emulate realism as best they could, (hence why firefights last a minute or two at most and are lethal as hell to all concerned.

Firearms being 'relatively equal' is both a highly subjective statement, and innacurate.

Weapons themselves can vary in performance wildly, and that is just between the quality of manufacture of each weapon that are of the same design. Then of course there is the design itself. An AKM will perform very differently to an M16A1. Accuracy, Rate of Fire, Recoil Compensation and Reliabiity are all very different. (Especially the Reliability.)

Ammunition can also perform very differently depending on it's quality and specifications.

2020 covered the 'value' of weapons pretty well. Weapons are a part of everyday life for just about everyone in that timeline, so people are not going to pay more than a weapon is 'worth'. Of course, there is always the 'style' aspect to consider. Weapons are fashion items too in 2020.

 

[blank_redge]

Hm. Pretty sure we've touched on a number of these points in other threads, but I can't be arsed to go searching right now. =p

We've been told that aiming will be twich-based, so player skill will play at least part of it. I think that character skill should affect a few things:

- spread / grouping. More points in the skill, the tighter the spread / grouping.
- recoil
- reload speed
- rate of fire (as applicable.) Pump shotguns, revolvers, anything not fully automatic, up to the weapon Rate of Fire cap.

I'm hoping that CDPR *does not* go with hitscan. Hitscan is less interesting to me.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

Hm. Pretty sure we've touched on a number of these points in other threads, but I can't be arsed to go searching right now. =p

We've been told that aiming will be twich-based, so player skill will play at least part of it. I think that character skill should affect a few things:

- spread / grouping. More points in the skill, the tighter the spread / grouping.
- recoil
- reload speed
- rate of fire (as applicable.) Pump shotguns, revolvers, anything not fully automatic, up to the weapon Rate of Fire cap.

I'm hoping that CDPR *does not* go with hitscan. Hitscan is less interesting to me.

The subject has indeed been touched on in a few threads.

I would be very disappointed if CDPR use a 'hitscan' system, particularly as I am hoping for locational damage as well as other realistic ballistic effects.

 

[username_3688833]

Hm. Pretty sure we've touched on a number of these points in other threads, but I can't be arsed to go searching right now. =p

We've been told that aiming will be twich-based, so player skill will play at least part of it. I think that character skill should affect a few things:

- spread / grouping. More points in the skill, the tighter the spread / grouping.
- recoil
- reload speed
- rate of fire (as applicable.) Pump shotguns, revolvers, anything not fully automatic, up to the weapon Rate of Fire cap.

I'm hoping that CDPR *does not* go with hitscan. Hitscan is less interesting to me.

Okay, I'll bite: What in the name of (insert humorous thing to ask "In the name of..." in the name of here)... is a hitscan, and where does it live?

 

[blank_redge]

Hitscan is one of the two predomiant gun mechanics that game designers use. Where you aim is where the shot lands. Straight line.

Also, usually instantaneous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitscan

 

[username_3688833]

Hitscan is one of the two predomiant gun mechanics that game designers use. Where you aim is where the shot lands. Straight line.

Also, usually instantaneous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitscan

Alrighty then. Seems I'd need to do a shittonne of research before forming an opinion...

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

Hitscan is one of the two predomiant gun mechanics that game designers use. Where you aim is where the shot lands. Straight line.

Also, usually instantaneous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitscan

Schiff had a rant on the marketn weapons thread about it a while back. He was using it to explain why all 'one-shot' weapons, (like sniper rifles,) are overpowered.

I much prefer how Planetside 2 handles it, with actual ballistic emulation. If your taking a long enough shot, you have to allow for your targets movement as well as bullet drop. No wind sheer as yet though. Also, each individual weapon in PS2 has a unique recoil pattern, pulling in a different direction.

 

[Sardukhar]

If your taking a long enough shit, you have to allow for your targets movement as well as bullet drop. No wind sheer as yet though.

What are you EATING, man?!

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

What are you EATING, man?!

Ah...

The I is next to the O. I have big hands and my phone has a small screen...

 

[Sardukhar]

Sure.

Sure you do.

"Big hands".

 

[Poet_and_Gentleman.598]

.
I am all for realism. The Interlock PnP game mechanics attempted to emulate realism as best they could, (hence why firefights last a minute or two at most and are lethal as hell to all concerned.

Firearms being 'relatively equal' is both a highly subjective statement, and innacurate.

Weapons themselves can vary in performance wildly, and that is just between the quality of manufacture of each weapon that are of the same design. Then of course there is the design itself. An AKM will perform very differently to an M16A1. Accuracy, Rate of Fire, Recoil Compensation and Reliabiity are all very different. (Especially the Reliability.)

Ammunition can also perform very differently depending on it's quality and specifications.
.

I agree --- it was a blanket statement from my part.

but with a caveat:

I don't remember where I heard this one but there is a saying that a rifle can usually shoot a lot better then the shooter.I agree.

I think in the context of a realistic depiction of CP77, it is even more so because I would expect most firefights to come at a fairly close range. E.g. you have 3 MOA difference with a AK and a AR, well that's 3/60th of a degree. at a 100 yards it translates to 2-3 inches at most. I think the difference would only really show in very specific instances( like when you would snipe at a target very far away).

My point was largely that the differences between guns of a same class (say military rifles) would not affect game balance. Taking the AK/AR example again, In most cases, as in real life, a point could be made for either in most games.

And that's a good thing. It would prevent the player from being godlike and taking on very large organizations by wiping out everything even in the late game. I think a good rule of thumb would be that he should be as powerful as an infantryman (or a military cyborg or whatever is in CP2020) and no more and that all infantrymen should be roughly equal in capabilities.

 

[schiff]

Hm. Pretty sure we've touched on a number of these points in other threads, but I can't be arsed to go searching right now. =p

We've been told that aiming will be twich-based, so player skill will play at least part of it. I think that character skill should affect a few things:

- spread / grouping. More points in the skill, the tighter the spread / grouping.
- recoil
- reload speed
- rate of fire (as applicable.) Pump shotguns, revolvers, anything not fully automatic, up to the weapon Rate of Fire cap.

I'm hoping that CDPR *does not* go with hitscan. Hitscan is less interesting to me.

It's hard not to expect a kind of hitscan vs splash damage weaponry from realistic stuff. That's when hitscan or fast projectile weapons get to be a flaw in the game (not in single as much as in multiplayer stuff, but still a limited weaponry). The only hitscan sister that doesn't hinder gameplay is the pulse one, basically your average plasma/ lighting or laser weapon. No bullet spread, not the best long range weapon, can even change size or colour once it hits the target, has room for weak defence. Best hitscan weap.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

...and CUE SCHIFF and his inevitable rant about how realism has nothing to do with gaming and multiplayer FPS theory...
I am willing to put money on him mentioning the word 'Hitscan' at least 3 times in his first post in this thread.

It's hard not to expect a kind of hitscan vs splash damage weaponry from realistic stuff. That's when hitscan or fast projectile weapons get to be a flaw in the game (not in single as much as in multiplayer stuff, but still a limited weaponry). The only hitscan sister that doesn't hinder gameplay is the pulse one, basically your average plasma/ lighting or laser weapon. No bullet spread, not the best long range weapon, can even change size or colour once it hits the target, has room for weak defence. Best hitscan weap.