Gunplay and Ranged Combat Thread

[Mak0r]

The gun/shooting mechanics are huge mess in the revealed gameplay. There is too much/too big hud while shooting ( I hope we can turn off each element of the HUD like in witcher 3?) and what is the most important weapons lack RECOIL! The gun shooting seem flat, there should be recoil depending of the type of gun. Bigger tradicional gun=more recoil. Also the game lack big accurate rifles which are able to e.g. shoot of a limb or one shot an unarmored enemy if hit in the center of head. These machine pistols used as "spray and pray" are very boring. Look at Doom, look at CSGO. There is fun when shooting. Please do at least one gun which is tradicional semi automatic high damage, low fire rate, big recoil rifle where to shoot 100% accurate u need to stop moving (ask Lukasz Luqu Wnek or some other CS:GO fans). Could be modded with scope co skilled players can have fun with this rifle and a shoot gun. Automatic guns are boring. Specially this default automatic pistol looks boring.
TAPPING >>> SPRAYING

 

[Snowflakez]

I'm not concerned. I also prefer semi-automatic weapons and I'm sure we'll see them in the game.

Weapon recoil, though... Yeah. Turned me off a bit. However, the demo character is probably high in weapon skills. They probably have high Handgun and Long Gun stats already.

 

[Mongol193]

I also felt like the Gunplay lacked something, the visual effects when shooting a gun do not add up to the audio behind it. The Recoil on both the Automatic Pistol and the Smart Gun felt very Soft, the Screen barely shook and the visual of the weapon also does not reveal how much power is behind it. In the Trailer at 40:46 you can place your Cursor on the tip of the Gun and when the fight begins, it does not move far at all! Considering that this gun supposedly has a somewhat higher caliber.

On the other hand though, the Shotgun and the Corporate Tech Rifle felt WAY better! At 40:00 in the gameplay trailer you feel the power of the Shotgun and in my opinion it makes yourself as a player feel more powerful. You can see how it kicks back into your shoulder and the screen shake delivers a great punch! At 44:15 is where the Corporate Tech Rifle comes into play, the screen shake is alot better than on the automatic weapons thus far and when he aims down the sight the gun, once again, delivers a good kick to the player!

TLDR : When shooting, the visual of the guns did not reflect the power behind them, a pistol is just a pistol but it still kicks alot, especially when fully automatic. The Smart Gun felt very weak although the Caliber seems to be HUGE. The screenshake when firing did not reflect the true power within the guns. ( EXCEPT the shotgun )

Post automatically merged: Aug 27, 2018

. . . However, the demo character is probably high in weapon skills. They probably have high Handgun and Long Gun stats already.

Let's say that the Character was very skilled with weapons, but as a player I would not want to regret my decision in investing into guns skills by getting less visual feedback of the power from my guns. In my opinion, speccing into weapon skills should only reduce spread when firing fully automatic, or increase first bullet accuracy.
Not make the player feel more distant from his Weapon.

 

[jervi]

I'd like to think that we'd find some way that 2077 small-arms could handle recoil better than 2018 smallarms; that technology has actually advanced as time goes on. It's also worth noting the effects of recoil on accuracy dpend on a lot more than just muzzle energy. Even little things like the relative positions and alignment of the barrel to the forearm and upper arm have a large impact. For instance, the Jatimatic and some PDWs have ergonomics that basically push the weapon straight back instead of making the muzzle climb. For all I know, they replaced the normal recoil spring with a little countermass setup that counters recoil the same way a piston engine reduces NVH and/or got a little creative with barrel porting.

But there are people that measure the performance of a gun by the length of flames coming from the barrel than by damage inflicted, or who think muzzle climb is a more accurate measure of muzzle energy than the size of the wound channel. Maybe CDPR should throw those people a bone and add in some old muzzle-loaders that transmit as much force to the firing hand or shoulder as they impart on the projectile while belching fire like a dragon. Sure, they won't have the power, accuracy, or ROF of a more modern firearm, but they will look and feel more powerful and thus satisfy a certain segment of the population.

 

[Suhiira]

I'd like to think that we'd find some way that 2077 small-arms could handle recoil better than 2018 smallarms; that technology has actually advanced as time goes on.

I have no doubt the people using Hand Cannons in the 13th century thought the same thing.
Physics don't change.

 

[LegateLaniusThe2nd]

I also felt like the Gunplay lacked something, the visual effects when shooting a gun do not add up to the audio behind it. The Recoil on both the Automatic Pistol and the Smart Gun felt very Soft, the Screen barely shook and the visual of the weapon also does not reveal how much power is behind it. In the Trailer at 40:46 you can place your Cursor on the tip of the Gun and when the fight begins, it does not move far at all! Considering that this gun supposedly has a somewhat higher caliber.

On the other hand though, the Shotgun and the Corporate Tech Rifle felt WAY better! At 40:00 in the gameplay trailer you feel the power of the Shotgun and in my opinion it makes yourself as a player feel more powerful. You can see how it kicks back into your shoulder and the screen shake delivers a great punch! At 44:15 is where the Corporate Tech Rifle comes into play, the screen shake is alot better than on the automatic weapons thus far and when he aims down the sight the gun, once again, delivers a good kick to the player!

TLDR : When shooting, the visual of the guns did not reflect the power behind them, a pistol is just a pistol but it still kicks alot, especially when fully automatic. The Smart Gun felt very weak although the Caliber seems to be HUGE. The screenshake when firing did not reflect the true power within the guns. ( EXCEPT the shotgun )

Post automatically merged: Aug 27, 2018

Let's say that the Character was very skilled with weapons, but as a player I would not want to regret my decision in investing into guns skills by getting less visual feedback of the power from my guns. In my opinion, speccing into weapon skills should only reduce spread when firing fully automatic, or increase first bullet accuracy.
Not make the player feel more distant from his Weapon.

Yea my suggestions is adding more power and recoil to the guns. Removing the shitty number damage UI stuff and make the enemies react to more to being hit by bullets. The biggest issue I have is the gunplay looks floaty as hell. You can't even tell if your bullets are actually hitting the enemy without the damage UI rather than seeing the games enemies actually reacting to being hit by bullets.

 

[Sardukhar]

Yea my suggestions is adding more power and recoil to the guns. Removing the shitty number damage UI stuff and make the enemies react to more to being hit by bullets. The biggest issue I have is the gunplay looks floaty as hell. You can't even tell if your bullets are actually hitting the enemy without the damage UI rather than seeing the games enemies actually reacting to being hit by bullets.

Praise! You're BACK!

Also you're RIGHT!

And not a SINGLE Dark Souls reference!

Truly it is a good and weird day!

I'm hoping you can turn off the damage numbers in the UI. Witcher had a fairly adjustable UI, can't see CPunk being less.

 

[jervi]

I have no doubt the people using Hand Cannons in the 13th century thought the same thing.
Physics don't change.

No, but we come up with more ingenious ways to exploit physics to our advantage. Comparing the average firearm of CP2077 to any firearm before Maxim's work came to fruition in 1884 is like comparing horse-drawn carriages to piston-powered automobiles. The same laws of physics apply to both, but there are some vital differences in technology that affect how those physics apply.

There are reasons why modern smallarms rarely have the barrel attached directly to the receiver the way 13th century gonnes had their barrels attached to the stock. And you can't use the same energy used for cycling the action to also make the muzzle jump either; 13th century firearms didn't "waste" energy compressing all those springs, so they put more of the recoil into the shoulder than modern guns. Also, recoil didn't mean much for single-shot firearms anyways, so aside from the potential of shattering a collarbone, it's rather moot until repeating firearms become a thing and we actually start considering recoil when designing a firearm.

Having said all that, the high cyclic rate and many shots from a short magazine make me think that that pistol in the beginning is using small rounds; maybe 5mm, possibly 7mm, but definitely not 9mm. That thing seems to handle less like a 93R and more like a P90!

 

[Suhiira]

And you can't use the same energy used for cycling the action to also make the muzzle jump either; 13th century firearms didn't "waste" energy compressing all those springs, so they put more of the recoil into the shoulder than modern guns.

Two words about the recoil of early firearms.
Black powder.

 

[jervi]

Two words about the recoil of early firearms.
Black powder.

...and lots of it too. (2*10) = (5*4), so I'm not convinced that a little propellant with more energy density is any more powerful than a lot of powder with low energy density. Joules are joules!

Also, anecdotally, the muzzle loaders I've dealt with had more kick than any semi-auto I ever fired, even those of comparable bore

 

[Suhiira]

The only "big bores" I've ever fired (other then cannons and .50cals, which were on fixed mounts) were a .44mag and a 45-70, and both had more recoil then I care to remember, and I am neither a small person (6' 2") nor unfamiliar with firearms (retired USMC).

 

[icedxylophone]

Wouldn’t mind a little recoil, but very little some guns shouldn’t have it at all. Maybe a few weapons that are heavily focused on power should have a big recoil. I would think that recoil wouldn’t be a big thing 2077.

 

[Hoplite_22]

recoil is physics, you want a revlover with a .50 cal round launched out the barrel it's going to kick like a mule, you want a big complicated gun to mitigate the recoil it's probably going to look like the gun Jackie picks up in the trailer.

 

[Akeronn]

I agree with some of the points above - on recoil and sounding matching the look of the gun firing (ie a very loud percussive pop from that pistol - certainly wasn't a .22 or anything like that).

But, my real concern was two fold;

\\\Brain splurge starting///

1st - I feel like gun damage to others should be more punishing. I know there are RPG leveling mechanics to consider, but at an equivalent level, I feel headshots, double chest shots, should really mess both you and others up (unless you or your enemy has in place ballistic cushioning in their head or chest.) TL/DR - Against a non-tech equivalent person, I'd expect guns to floor people, and yourself (incentivise cover and movement - but I suppose that would be handled via difficulty perhaps...)

2nd - I really hope that the smart guns aren't de facto super amazing. I suppose you can just chalk the gun up as geared towards the non-fps player, "you don't have to use it, so chill." But it still seems a little easy how...easy it is to use. Perhaps there's more to know about it (a max range, a max turning angle for bullets, reduced stopping power, needing specific tech to use etc...) - it just seems to detract from the universe with something so OP existing.

\\\Brain splurge over ///

 

[Neeedles]

Yes, both the recoil and the overall visuals of shooting feel like youre shooting a toy gun with plastic projectiles. Also how enemies take bullets is kinda neglected it seems. Maybe i just havent seen enough, but it seemed like a bullet shot didnt bother them that much, until their health dropped to zero that is.

 

[CifkaMiklos]

The gun/shooting mechanics are huge mess in the revealed gameplay. There is too much/too big hud while shooting ( I hope we can turn off each element of the HUD like in witcher 3?) and what is the most important weapons lack RECOIL! The gun shooting seem flat, there should be recoil depending of the type of gun. Bigger tradicional gun=more recoil.

Nope. Actually the recoil is three fold thing:
-The energy of the round (more muzzle energy = bigger recoil)
-The weight of the gun (heavier gun = smaller recoil - if you had fire a real Thomson SMG you understand it)
-The design of the gun (the barrel lower = no "jumping", just look at the KRISS Vector, and it's become clear)

So no, you actually get it wrong...

Also the game lack big accurate rifles which are able to e.g. shoot of a limb or one shot an unarmored enemy if hit in the center of head.

LoL. This is a gameplay video from an early version, there is a sign written all the time for such guys like you...
This video does not represent the final product, so try to understand this...

 

[Akeronn]

Yes, both the recoil and the overall visuals of shooting feel like youre shooting a toy gun with plastic projectiles. Also how enemies take bullets is kinda neglected it seems. Maybe i just havent seen enough, but it seemed like a bullet shot didnt bother them that much, until their health dropped to zero that is.

I mean, as I said in my post, I can dig some sponge if the person has cyberarmour, tech keeping them upright. If a normal person sponges, then I raise an eyebrow.

Those guys in the second part of the trailer def. have benefit of the doubt - if that is in fact the case, I haven't heard anything on it

 

[Jackolanterno]

In the new gameplay trailer the weapons have a DPS stat
Is that damage per shot or per second is my question

 

[L4dftw]

I'd imagine it would be per second, considering that's pretty much the universal meaning.

 

[AlexiaRevan]

DPS mean damage per second . a class that's a DPS mean they make tons of damage in comparaison say to a Tank .