Gunplay lacks recoil!

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This has already been discussed in the Guns thread, but I honestly think gun recoil in a video game is grossly overrated and would only suit simulation type games. Force-feedback/vibration for each weapon is a much better option for "impact".
 
How our perception is changed by the expectation born out of the exposure to the popculture :) Actually, the recoil from a military grade handgun, shotgun or rifle is, mostly, a product of Hollywood. Also, there's recoil and there's kickback. Or, more technicaly, there's kickback. If it cannot happen for some reasons it causes the recoil (look at 16 inch battleship guns firing. There's no recoil. The barrels dont move upwards, as a handgun. They are pushed back, way into the turret, if not, recoil would occur, pushing them up with the whole insane force and probably ruining the rest of a war for the entire crew) Both are no concern for trained shooters because they are, well, trained, to deal with them. Also the guns are usually designed the way that the forces affecting the user will be minimal and/or easy to mitigate. It is a safe assumption that in 2077 guns won't seem to have any kickback/recoil whatsoever.
Of course, it looks effective. Both in movies and games. Still, unrealistic.
 
A bullet blast in the head should be lethal, Unless upgrades are in your skull!


I'm sure you've seen the trailer, did you forget about one of the guys who got shot in the face multiple times and kept walking/shooting, vs the Trauma Team.

So depending on how advanced one has augmented themselves, subtermal armor as skin etc, people are more machine than human. Though I am sure that there will be a system in place that takes account where you shoot them.
I.e how we saw them cutting off limbs and someone had actually stacked a pile of limbs for fun in the earlier build so that's fun.
 
Everybody’s seen these videos, but I’ll just leave one here for posterity.


Thats fun, but really noobs that hold the weapons very wrong or don't expect recoil for some reason (with shotguns, no less!).

Keanu Reeves during weapon training:

I expect professional soldiers - e.g. a V with 9 body & high skill - to do even better. Even more so for gorilla grip arms...
 
Thats fun, but really noobs that hold the weapons very wrong or don't expect recoil for some reason (with shotguns, no less!).

Keanu Reeves during weapon training:

I expect professional soldiers - e.g. a V with 9 body & high skill - to do even better. Even more so for gorilla grip arms...
Thanks for posting essentially what I was just signing in to post lol, there's a vast difference between idiots intentionally holding a firearm incorrectly, and someone doing so correctly.

Something shooting a .223 or 5.56 isn't going to have too much kickback, even for someone who is mostly inexperienced and isn't that big. Same with shotguns, you've got kids aged 12 with hunting licenses firing 12 gauges for bird hunting.

That being said, having some recoil or kickback with a higher caliber might be nice, or having stats determine the level of this. Might be a pain to make multiple firing animations though depending on the different stats or skill level too.
 
Illusory things like this are often some of the last things to be worked into a game. Focusing on details like visuals would be the equivalent of trying to paint the walls of a house at the same time the construction crew is putting the drywall up. Likely that everyone is going to wind up getting in everyone else's way, and everyone is probably going to have to do their job twice. First, all construction gets finished...then clean up...then paint...then polish.

But, I do think that the bigger firearms could use some more kick. Maybe even a bit of screen shake for things like that heavy machine gun. I also thought the tracer rounds were a bit flat. All likely stuff that will be tweaked later on.

On a positive note -- I felt the weight of being hurled through the air by Sasquatch and hitting the ground was well done. That had a good sense of impact. Also, shooting out that weak spot on her back felt punchy.
 
Thats fun, but really noobs that hold the weapons very wrong or don't expect recoil for some reason (with shotguns, no less!).

True.

How I think it should be my prerogative in an RPG that I can make a character who is a total loser at certain aspects (like shooting; recoil control, accuracy) and watch and feel him get tangibly better over time - if I even choose to pursue that route of character developement that is (and if I don’t, I’ll have to make due with other forms of gameplay). That’s why I want heavyhanded stat influence on anything where stats influence competency.
 
If the FPS handled the mechanics at least somewhat like an RPG, you could. But it wouldn’t be a very good FPS anymore, it’d probably be a pretty lousy one.
There are a couple simulators out there that do (ARMA 3 anyone?) but they're few and far between and don't attract nearly as many players as a typical FPS. After all an FPS is all about living out your Rambo fantasies not reality.
 
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It probably depends on the weapon's type too.

Kang Tao Type 41
Recoil: 2



Heck, even the Federated Arm's "Vindicator" has more recoil than the SMG above...
Recoil: 4


Works the same IRL tho, some guns have less recoil than other, depends on how they're build.
@ 4:44 he's like "Even a kid could shoot with this" and seeing how small the kick is on that automatic shotgun, I'd believe him.

Maybe the gun in the demo was just... A low recoil gun
 
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There are a couple simulators out there that do (ARMA 3 anyone?) but they're few and far between and don't attract nearly as many players as a typical FPS. After all an FPS is all about living out your Rambo fantasies not reality.

Well, Arma is a sim through and through. No RPGness there. I’m more talking about stat induced control distortion.

But I do agree about the powerfantasy.

Add instant gratification to that.
 
Well, Arma is a sim through and through. No RPGness there.
Actually I totally disagree.

While there are those that play ARMA strictly as a sim-shooter there are also a good many that play it as a military/tactical simulation with everyone assigned a role based on real military organization.

Think of it as a LARP (Live Action Role Play) on steroids.

I'd LOVE to play it myself but my inability to perform the necessary FPS activities makes that impossible.
 
Think of it as a LARP (Live Action Role Play) on steroids.

Well, yeah. You can do that. For sure. People had put up ”roleplaying” servers in Arma 2 (and I suppose 3 has those too). You can also do that (LARP) in Chess or Hearts if you wish, and if you feel like being alone, you can do it in Soliraire too. It’s the players/groups choice to use the game as they see fit as an extention of their imagination, but the game neither is nor has any RPG in it. It doesn’t care about or respond to your larping, it’s not designed to. That’s what I mean.

I'd LOVE to play it myself but my inability to perform the necessary FPS activities makes that impossible.

Arma is overall a fairly calm game (compared to most shooters). It requires precision from you (quite some at times), but most of the time it’s not very twitchy. If you can handle the twitchiness of VtMB, I’m fairly sure you can handle Arma too at least to some extent. The hardship there is that you really need to know how to aim and you go down very fast if you do not.
 
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Arma is overall a fairly calm game (compared to most shooters). It requires precision from you (quite some at times), but most of the time it’s not very twitchy.

True in the white-kuckled / panicked button-mashing sense, definitely, but I'd say the sheer amount of concentration it requires is pretty daunting compared to a "shooter". Definitely not a game that allows strafing or bunny-hopping to avoid incoming fire.

I would say that the general sense of firing a weapon or taking fire feels pretty frightening, but I doubt that type of approach would work well for CP. I'd say a bit more exaggeration and aesthetic punch than realism.
 
I'd say the sheer amount of concentration it requires is pretty daunting compared to a "shooter".

This is most certainly true. The feel of the game can be quite tense and even frustrating. But I wanted to refer to the purely mobile side of things.

I doubt that type of approach would work well for CP.

Yeah, it definitely wouldn’t and I would never asked for it.

I prefer RPG’s (these shooter types) to neglect realism when it comes to these mechanics. And rather have a tad exaggerated - sometimes even a bit silly - effects from character stats that govern these actions.

The core fun is, afterall, not that you get to kill stuff (dead enemies are the end product, the ”result” you strive for), but that you can feel the improvement of your character - here the act of shooting and killing - in your hand as you progress your character.
 
For an RPG game the gunplay is already outstanding. Especially since the Red Engine was never used like that before. I applaud the devs definitely, they're getting not enough praise!
 
For an RPG game the gunplay is already outstanding. Especially since the Red Engine was never used like that before. I applaud the devs definitely, they're getting not enough praise!
I'm the absolute last person that should be criticizing/praising FPS gunplay, but I'd agree it looks OK for a non-shooter video game.
 
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