CP doesn’t need to be a ”good shooter”, I’d even say it shouldn’t be. Gunplay should work as well as it can by RPG mechanical standards, and that kinda calls for a certain level of jank by default when the game is not turnbased.
CP doesn’t need to be a ”good shooter”, I’d even say it shouldn’t be. Gunplay should work as well as it can by RPG mechanical standards, and that kinda calls for a certain level of jank by default when the game is not turnbased.
Honnestly, yes, it looks good, well nothing crazy but yeah... I just hope it's not the "main point" of the game, but yeah, immortal, big gun, blam blam dead people ,omg my gun overheat *slash people with my katana*
Choose dialog option number 4
Wow V what a sheman you are, come here and suck my big dirty toes.
Oh johnny! What about your girl? Oh crap, I'm sure we could solve that by killing enough people so they bring it back to you.
Say no more samuraï!
Blam blam, dead dead!
My main concern is how "action movie" like it is, when Cyberpunk™ stress out how deadly and ugly real gunfights are.
Not that I'm a snuff fan, but I've seen a bunch of big machine guns shooting through concrete on youtube, I guess that if your big security machinegun isn't enough to pierce a man taking another one hostage (deep dive vid), they sold you an airsoft replica...
The idea looks cool, really, the hostage stuff is cool (only as shield? Any way to negociate?) but yeah, no way V could be in one pieces after that deathmachine shot him.
A .50 is able to cut a man in half..
Maybe as an endgame bonus (when you're so augmented that you can take some heavy damage, not that much either to be a bit realistic) but here it shocked me more than any kind of recoil.
2020/2013 rules stressed for 30years how lethal and realistic that world is, only to let you lapdance in front of bullets.
No "Epic weapons", grab a shit gun, shoot yourself in the feet and check by yourself the RL gunfight mecanics with low tier weapons.
What no?
Choose dialog option number 4
Wow V what a sheman you are, come here and suck my big dirty toes.
Oh johnny! What about your girl? Oh crap, I'm sure we could solve that by killing enough people so they bring it back to you.
Say no more samuraï!
Blam blam, dead dead!
My main concern is how "action movie" like it is, when Cyberpunk™ stress out how deadly and ugly real gunfights are.
Not that I'm a snuff fan, but I've seen a bunch of big machine guns shooting through concrete on youtube, I guess that if your big security machinegun isn't enough to pierce a man taking another one hostage (deep dive vid), they sold you an airsoft replica...
The idea looks cool, really, the hostage stuff is cool (only as shield? Any way to negociate?) but yeah, no way V could be in one pieces after that deathmachine shot him.
A .50 is able to cut a man in half..
Maybe as an endgame bonus (when you're so augmented that you can take some heavy damage, not that much either to be a bit realistic) but here it shocked me more than any kind of recoil.
2020/2013 rules stressed for 30years how lethal and realistic that world is, only to let you lapdance in front of bullets.
No "Epic weapons", grab a shit gun, shoot yourself in the feet and check by yourself the RL gunfight mecanics with low tier weapons.
What no?
Last edited:
Lemme explain something. There is a huge contingent out there that thinks CDPR can't do good combat. It's a significant part of the fan base, ie; if CDPR can't get it right THIS time, blah, blah, blah. Now You may part of this contingent given your very specific needs for old school mechanics. For you to say it doesn't even need to be good, lmao....wut? What are you even talking about? If this game doesn't have gunplay AT LEAST better than Fallout 4, it WILL BE TORN TO BITS. CDPR will be the company that cannot design good gameplay, and guaranteed if they design it for you that will be doubly so.
I'm personally expecting CP2077 to basically be an "action movie".
Even action movies have a certain amount of dialog.
Well, see... I don’t tie the ”fun” and ”goodness” of the gunplay to how well it performs as an FPS, how fluid and precise it is at it. Gunplay can be very fun even if it is terrible at being an FPS (in the regular sense).
Other mechanics tie into it and also how consistent it feels with the rest of the game.
I think it’s a completely wrong approach to insist a good FPS and then try to dilute it with nominal character progression influence so that you can call your game an ”RPG” and lure in audience who like RPG’s. The FPS part suffers and the RPG part is an afterthought. It’s a no win situation, and how you get shit like Fallout 3 and 4.
The design should be honest and unapologetic about what it strives for and try to complete that as well as possible and with as much integrity as possible. Not by throwing in a little bit of this and a little bit of that and hoping everyone’s happy. If it (the gunplay) is to be that of an RPG, make it as RPG as humanly possible; if it’s an FPS, do that then with same ideal.
”Good FPS” isn’t a secret key to success without which you just can’t manage. Good design will find its audience even if it wasn’t an FPS to a tee.
You have no idea what that would even mean.
Last edited:
I doubt 99% of gunplay skeptics (myself included) here want uber-realism. Rather we want guns feel and sound punchy making the gunplay satisfying. We don’t want guns to sound like pee-shooters. Make each gun type distinctly different from another and add some juicy gunshot sounds with a pinch of recoil and kickback and with a cherry on top in the form of satisfying semi-realistic kills (i.e. a pistol round shouldn’t blow the enemy’s head clean off).
Cdpr said that this is for the public to play.
Therefore, the gun does not require a recoil. The recoil is too high. It is very difficult for the public to control the guns.
Therefore, the gun does not require a recoil. The recoil is too high. It is very difficult for the public to control the guns.
I would generally agree and be in favor of anything supporting the game being more of an "RPG" and being "stat dependent", however, let's be transparent here. Bethesda got reamed (and rightfully so) for Fallout 3's terrible shooting mechanics, which was still an issue in Fallout 4's updated mechanics.
CDPR would be idiots to make the game play like that. I can't even begin to imagine the amount of crap they'd get if, for instance, they made accuracy (hit chance) dependent on stats and what not (it'd be like Fallout 76's VATs, maybe even worse).
That being said, I would absolutely be in favor of certain things being stat dependent. Weapon sway, recoil from shots, reload time, backfiring, etc. etc. Damage should never be done since it's too abstract for what we see (a perfect headshot doing limbshot damage for instance).
Last edited:
Being a former M-60 MG gunner during my time in the service, your statement is true to a degree. In the case of the M-60,if you are "sling gunning" it, using controlled bursts negates the inaccuracy of the recoil...somewhat. The thing about heavy weapons , with exceptions of course, is that most are mostly "area denial" or "area effect" weapons where pinpoint accuracy isn't really an issue (Because your target is an area and whatever is in it.).
The "problem" here is we're dealing with a video game shooter not a simulator. Unrealistic as it is most players expect, hell, demand, pinpoint accuracy from everything.
So even if you add recoil to a game you can't really have it effect anything.
Sad ... but true.
Mm. I read that a really good autogunner in WW2 could do amazing things on full auto using weapons like the Thompson and BAR. A skill that seems to have happily passed, at least in the sense of the learning curve you would need to accurately put automatic weapons fire into living, moving targets, plural and singular.
Is anyone surprised that the cybernetics enhanced super warrior who can rip a machine gun off its mount using brute force, has no regard to the weapons recoil?
Well then show it. The crosshair doesn’t need to flail all over the place, just show how the character’s super hands negate that recoil, show some slight weapon movement during firing.
Also how about a netrunner character who doesn’t have those mechanical arms - surely he would feel some recoil as opposed to the strong solo type.
P.S. Strong mechanical arms are nothing without a reinforced spine to support them, but I doubt CP2077 will have that, it’ll most likely just use the lazy trope of uber arms being able to lift heavy objects.
FIrst off, making the most sense would be that Strength and recoil suppresssing stats would hopefully be the cause of low recoil, if not, i'd say definitely at the second point that the game is heavily RPG focused meaning enemies have healthbars and realistic recoil will unlikely apply.
I understand where you’re coming from, but, from the point of view if an old cybic who argued these things for years in Bethie’s boards during the time of Fallout 3, Bethesda got reamed because they didn’t give a shit and were OK with bad design just as long as they got to copy their Elder Scrolls design into a foreing and unfit mold.
They are none to be looked at for good examples in other places than sandbox design (and probably choices on music).
There are other, better ways to approach combat design.
I concur. This post was a "just saying" type of post.
Post automatically merged:
Oh, they can...and still do. An M60 was kind of an awkward beast though. I mean with the disintegrating belt, everything rattling all over the place. It was a better weapon for bipod/tripod usage, but that isn't to say a skilled gunner couldn't make it "jump through some hoops" free gunning it. You just had to be used to doing it.
Last edited:
Welllll...recoil is a funny beast. Strength isn't really enough. You need mass and tensile reactivity - or lack thereof.
It's a combination of force and velocity of said force. Recoil won't knock you off your butt typically, but regardless of how strong you are ( I am strong by most standards) the suddeness of that force applied to the levers that are your hands and arms will still change your aiming point. Dramatically.
When you fix a weapon for "sight-in" procedure, you not only need a strong material, but something to fix it to that had both the mass and tensile inelasticity to absorb the kick.
If you weigh 160 pounds and are really strong, you won't be knocked back (of course), but that aim point will shift.
If you weigh 320 pounds, have a good grip but aren't particularly strong, the aimpoint will typically shift less. Much less.
Edit: before someone else beats me to it - mass of weapon and recoil compensation play a big factor as well. Different weapons kick differently. Different loads, too. And of course, user skill.
I don't expect 2077 to reflect all this, but even with cyberarms (in 2020 those don't help with accuracy, by the way, although Bod will decrease recoil penalties in the optional recoil rules), you're going to see recoil hopefully. You aren't a turret and even if you were, those things are fixed down for a reason.
Nope. Most of the engagements with the weapon were.. pretty close range where the distance, by itself, would pretty much negate the effects of recoil (as far as the need for pin point accuracy is concerned).
Assuming that the machinegun tied to the turret was close to an M-60, here's what that recoil would look like on an "unaugmented" person hip firing:
Looks... manageable.