Better they take time than give us some half assed update, that barely solves anything.twinkiegorilla;n10807681 said:
I am as always impressed with their PR, let's hope the update is as welcomed. Much love.
I am as always impressed with their PR, let's hope the update is as welcomed. Much love.
This announcement is offending to be honest and it is atleast 3 months too late.
I totally believe that you - all members of the development team - are invested in this project especially emotionally; So are the players, you fucked up things left and right and stalled patience and attention of palyers over and over now, abusing their trust and good will. But this right here is the worst of them.
Just to mention three examples - relative quotes - You said you are working on something for the rows to justify the flood of agility, your concept was to make everything agile and make rows irrelevant, but suggested something big for rows and importance for them just in another way than the row restriction, that took months without being honest and telling us that you either changed your mind or you are just awful and fooled your players on purpose; You proclaimed you are sorry for the midwinter update and you'll learn from it and fix stuff several times and you did nothing; You finally admitted that create is a problem and that you will ban it from the constructed modes (at least from ranked and pro ladder according to this announcement now), Wardancer is an issue for you, CA spies are too - your solution is too keep everything of that like it is, that's the opposite of acknowledging and attacking an issue - After stating those things publicly the right move would've been to just do what you said you are about to asap - asap doesnt mean in may and in this case was already by far too late. If you don't have asolution for an issue you already acknowledged, than just take the card out of the game until you think you fixed it.
Your patch resistance is disgusting and always was. You restricted yourself with your esport calendar, which is totally fine but you just don't get how to work around that. If you would do this stuff right you would be able to use your PTR, then fix your planned changes, launch the patch afterwards and fix the rest with hotfixes not later than 2 weeks in your 2 months cycle. Your approach to that is not to react to the appearance of your patches, shortening ranked season to being 1 month long having 2 cycles of them in 1 pro ladder cycle; The proplem you created yourself now once more is that you don't want to patch/fix things while any of these seasons is running. This means 2 consecutive ranked season will always be the same gameplaywise in the best case of your system - that means you would actually do something. What you do is not to balance anything, if you do it it is far delayed and still crude; Teasing more updates which are either heavily delayed or not coming at all. Where are my dryades and vampires? Where is the new faction you talked about? I am totally fine with giving a longshot overview of things if you would handle it like this and would decide for one approach. I wouldn't ask those 2 questions if you wouldn't promise/announce more frequent updates and suggest that those things are part of that, shortly before that.
You didn't say anything to look forward with this. All what you said are truisms and are the base of developing this game anyways. There is no information about a concrete project you are working on. Altering the design, fine with me;
The last response in the Ask a Dev thread is 3 weeks old, is anyone still at your department?
I don't care if you "work on something" or "figure something out" anymore, Gwents past evolvingwise is a pure disappointment and full of lies/misleadings. I care about an actual result and what we got is the same "meta" for 3 months , you are telling us that the next stint will take 5 months after announcing more frequent updates for 2018 and the future. What do you intend to tell us with this announcment?
"Come back in 6 months if you are that bored of anything else to let us disappoint you once more or keep drying out playing this game, because of your initial faith into it."
You are throwing so much words at us without any content behind them.
To conclude things. I came back for the art contest - knowing that I can catch the announced roadmap - the vast majority of the submissions were beautiful, some of them estonishing and some would truly fit into the game as a card. Sadly I can't vote with my GoG/Gwent account, would've been too easy I suppose.
Taking this opportunity I want to thank everyone that participated, especially the artists, but also the players voting for the artworks, everyone that express the well-deserved appreciation for the artistsind some way and yes also CDPR for this project, it was a pleasure to see all of those artworks and inspect some of them, the details and motives were breathtaking in some cases.
What I got is the push-off. Finally, I was waiting for it at least 6-8 months now. I can't say that this 18 months were a pleasure for me. In fact it was a pretty bad torture, especially because of the - by now - few good, enjoyable moments and I am by far no player that played just a couple of games and didn't busy himself with Gwent even when not playing. If Gwent didn't evolve that badly - out of my persepective - I would probably still try to slip into a major tournament, most likely through a qualifier and even in the reality I was not far fom reaching it. I am sorry for every single player that experienced the same, or even worse, that I did.
Please do all of us, especially yourself a favour CDPR. Just concede. Stop trying to pretend you are able to take care of a multiplayer game, to take care of an esport game and the players involved in that.
You talk about your emotions and your humanity. You work with real human beings and furthermore with existences that don't work at you department. Far more lifes than those of the players one knows the name of. There are atleast dozens, most likely hundreds of human beings that invested much more than it would've been healthy and smart for them - talking about the esport.
And yes noone can argue with you if you just say that you are not responsible for mature persons and this is true, partially. You are responsible for what you do and suggest regarding those players I talk about. Your esport environment is irresponsible. Take the pro ladder as a basis, you demand that a player that isn't even in reach of the real business invests at least a full time job of time into the game. And I actaully think you perceive this as reasonable, because you want dedicated players. Except those who actually make it and those who earn some money through it by streaming their hustle, the players you build/built your esport environment on have nothing from it and invest/lose a lot.
Just leave it be. This experiment went too far and was definetly not only a misstep but a tremendous failure.
Close the multiplayer and give us single player campaigns for the future. I am still sure that Thronebreaker will be great, so will further single player campaigns be. Focus on them and give us something to forget this bad experience with your multiplayer fuck-up.
Strongly hoping that I can extend my 2 week+ break to eternity.
TV_JayArr
Ps. I didn't read the 14 pages, thus my post is mostlikely (partially) redundant, no need to tell me.
I totally believe that you - all members of the development team - are invested in this project especially emotionally; So are the players, you fucked up things left and right and stalled patience and attention of palyers over and over now, abusing their trust and good will. But this right here is the worst of them.
Just to mention three examples - relative quotes - You said you are working on something for the rows to justify the flood of agility, your concept was to make everything agile and make rows irrelevant, but suggested something big for rows and importance for them just in another way than the row restriction, that took months without being honest and telling us that you either changed your mind or you are just awful and fooled your players on purpose; You proclaimed you are sorry for the midwinter update and you'll learn from it and fix stuff several times and you did nothing; You finally admitted that create is a problem and that you will ban it from the constructed modes (at least from ranked and pro ladder according to this announcement now), Wardancer is an issue for you, CA spies are too - your solution is too keep everything of that like it is, that's the opposite of acknowledging and attacking an issue - After stating those things publicly the right move would've been to just do what you said you are about to asap - asap doesnt mean in may and in this case was already by far too late. If you don't have asolution for an issue you already acknowledged, than just take the card out of the game until you think you fixed it.
Your patch resistance is disgusting and always was. You restricted yourself with your esport calendar, which is totally fine but you just don't get how to work around that. If you would do this stuff right you would be able to use your PTR, then fix your planned changes, launch the patch afterwards and fix the rest with hotfixes not later than 2 weeks in your 2 months cycle. Your approach to that is not to react to the appearance of your patches, shortening ranked season to being 1 month long having 2 cycles of them in 1 pro ladder cycle; The proplem you created yourself now once more is that you don't want to patch/fix things while any of these seasons is running. This means 2 consecutive ranked season will always be the same gameplaywise in the best case of your system - that means you would actually do something. What you do is not to balance anything, if you do it it is far delayed and still crude; Teasing more updates which are either heavily delayed or not coming at all. Where are my dryades and vampires? Where is the new faction you talked about? I am totally fine with giving a longshot overview of things if you would handle it like this and would decide for one approach. I wouldn't ask those 2 questions if you wouldn't promise/announce more frequent updates and suggest that those things are part of that, shortly before that.
You didn't say anything to look forward with this. All what you said are truisms and are the base of developing this game anyways. There is no information about a concrete project you are working on. Altering the design, fine with me;
if this is an issue now why wasn't it the last 18 months, you proclaimed you are working on a solution for the coin flip months ago and got nothing at all;Lilayah;n10800231 said:
the thing you needed to do from the beginning, that being said, Create is still part of the ranked mode;Lilayah;n10800231 said:
What does that mean for me as a player? You already had faction identity - threw it away, you had row-relevance - straight into the dumpster, you had a deep and skillrewarding, a high-skill-capped game - and you turned it into the most random clown fiesta you could have.Lilayah;n10800231 said:
The last response in the Ask a Dev thread is 3 weeks old, is anyone still at your department?
I don't care if you "work on something" or "figure something out" anymore, Gwents past evolvingwise is a pure disappointment and full of lies/misleadings. I care about an actual result and what we got is the same "meta" for 3 months , you are telling us that the next stint will take 5 months after announcing more frequent updates for 2018 and the future. What do you intend to tell us with this announcment?
"Come back in 6 months if you are that bored of anything else to let us disappoint you once more or keep drying out playing this game, because of your initial faith into it."
You are throwing so much words at us without any content behind them.
This is the only thing that would've make me smile out of all what you announced to the players the last (close to) one year, if I wasn't so goddamn disgusted about this game, its evolution, your treatment and your developing. I wasn't bothered with the fact that Thronebreaker was clearly delayed without telling us and informing us in the end of december that it will be delayed - turns out to be almost a year. I was always of the opinion that Thronebreaker will be great - and I still am - that you got all the time of the world for Thronebreaker if I was to decide; Still I was looking forward since the first rumors about it, the announcment, the first sneak peeks, soo badly. Thus this is all what I needed to know, Thronebreaker this fall is good news!Lilayah;n10800231 said:
To conclude things. I came back for the art contest - knowing that I can catch the announced roadmap - the vast majority of the submissions were beautiful, some of them estonishing and some would truly fit into the game as a card. Sadly I can't vote with my GoG/Gwent account, would've been too easy I suppose.
Taking this opportunity I want to thank everyone that participated, especially the artists, but also the players voting for the artworks, everyone that express the well-deserved appreciation for the artistsind some way and yes also CDPR for this project, it was a pleasure to see all of those artworks and inspect some of them, the details and motives were breathtaking in some cases.
What I got is the push-off. Finally, I was waiting for it at least 6-8 months now. I can't say that this 18 months were a pleasure for me. In fact it was a pretty bad torture, especially because of the - by now - few good, enjoyable moments and I am by far no player that played just a couple of games and didn't busy himself with Gwent even when not playing. If Gwent didn't evolve that badly - out of my persepective - I would probably still try to slip into a major tournament, most likely through a qualifier and even in the reality I was not far fom reaching it. I am sorry for every single player that experienced the same, or even worse, that I did.
Please do all of us, especially yourself a favour CDPR. Just concede. Stop trying to pretend you are able to take care of a multiplayer game, to take care of an esport game and the players involved in that.
You talk about your emotions and your humanity. You work with real human beings and furthermore with existences that don't work at you department. Far more lifes than those of the players one knows the name of. There are atleast dozens, most likely hundreds of human beings that invested much more than it would've been healthy and smart for them - talking about the esport.
And yes noone can argue with you if you just say that you are not responsible for mature persons and this is true, partially. You are responsible for what you do and suggest regarding those players I talk about. Your esport environment is irresponsible. Take the pro ladder as a basis, you demand that a player that isn't even in reach of the real business invests at least a full time job of time into the game. And I actaully think you perceive this as reasonable, because you want dedicated players. Except those who actually make it and those who earn some money through it by streaming their hustle, the players you build/built your esport environment on have nothing from it and invest/lose a lot.
Just leave it be. This experiment went too far and was definetly not only a misstep but a tremendous failure.
Close the multiplayer and give us single player campaigns for the future. I am still sure that Thronebreaker will be great, so will further single player campaigns be. Focus on them and give us something to forget this bad experience with your multiplayer fuck-up.
Strongly hoping that I can extend my 2 week+ break to eternity.
TV_JayArr
Ps. I didn't read the 14 pages, thus my post is mostlikely (partially) redundant, no need to tell me.
TV_JayArr;n10822081 said:
Quite the opposite, it seems the announcement was received quite warmly from the majority of the community, with only a couple of people voicing an opinion like yours, some more being like "that's good news but 6 months is quite some time" and most being excited for it
Well, thats some news allright.
With 6 month hiatus of pretty much any meaningfull content, the remaining player base is gonna be, well, small at best, and its way too late to count on hypetrain of Witcher 3 to carry it.
So we either get a game that is good and unique on its own, and that is - really good, since "Hype" credit has long expired, or it gets put out of its misery. Guess its better this way.
To be frank, i was pretty sure that Gwent would slowly go down the drain. Another complete overhaul is basicly the only way to avoid it, albeit an extremely risky one.
Talk of recapturing original Gwent feeling is fairly troubling. Gwent in TW3 was really fun, because it was single player. Alot of its mechanics proved unsuitable for MP, weather being the most prominent example. Idea of CCG with minimal RNG is surely appealing, just as much as it was at Gwents launch. But the less RNG you have, the more prominent balance flaws become. Without minion combat, Gwent was carried in entertainment value by how close games were at times, and that alone.
Overall, Its a massive gamble. A CCG balanced to a point of being called a "game of skill" more than "game of chance" sounds both awesome and utterely improbable. Statisticly speaking, attempt at making such, especially post the initial game appearence, sounds like "Title suicide", and its surely not the safest way to monetize something. Yet you guys didnt pick the financially safe slow death, and went for high roll. That commands repsect, and that why i sencerily wish to be proved wrong.
See you in october, i guess. And best of luck.
:cheers:
With 6 month hiatus of pretty much any meaningfull content, the remaining player base is gonna be, well, small at best, and its way too late to count on hypetrain of Witcher 3 to carry it.
So we either get a game that is good and unique on its own, and that is - really good, since "Hype" credit has long expired, or it gets put out of its misery. Guess its better this way.
To be frank, i was pretty sure that Gwent would slowly go down the drain. Another complete overhaul is basicly the only way to avoid it, albeit an extremely risky one.
Talk of recapturing original Gwent feeling is fairly troubling. Gwent in TW3 was really fun, because it was single player. Alot of its mechanics proved unsuitable for MP, weather being the most prominent example. Idea of CCG with minimal RNG is surely appealing, just as much as it was at Gwents launch. But the less RNG you have, the more prominent balance flaws become. Without minion combat, Gwent was carried in entertainment value by how close games were at times, and that alone.
Overall, Its a massive gamble. A CCG balanced to a point of being called a "game of skill" more than "game of chance" sounds both awesome and utterely improbable. Statisticly speaking, attempt at making such, especially post the initial game appearence, sounds like "Title suicide", and its surely not the safest way to monetize something. Yet you guys didnt pick the financially safe slow death, and went for high roll. That commands repsect, and that why i sencerily wish to be proved wrong.
See you in october, i guess. And best of luck.
:cheers:
isnadtochiev;n10822581 said:
Without the original gwent feel and the witcher's grit - the things that I suspect created enough buzz to get this game funded in the first place - it isn't gwent in anything but name. Hence why we still need 3 rows, the consume mechanic, and weather. Balancing will always be an issue, but dumping so many new cards on the players makes things very erratic.
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Do we get a reset after the 6 months? because surely if you are changing the cards and fundamentals of the game none of the decks I have built will work I would preffer a reset that gives me back all packs earnt or purchased so that I can actually not be stuck when the game returns
There will be a period where milling cards will get you full scraps value. Which sucks if you like opening packs but is at least just as good otherwise - or better, as it gives you full control on what cards you get.
Also, your current cards will remain, albeit in their updated forms. You'll likely want to keep a lot of them anyway, as they'll be crucial to new decks.
Also, your current cards will remain, albeit in their updated forms. You'll likely want to keep a lot of them anyway, as they'll be crucial to new decks.
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Trying to do too much all at once without a clear idea of what to do. That's my guess.
As much as it saddens me to wait for 6 months, I am hopeful. I know what these guys are capable of.
I have played a lot of card games. Gwent has the best ARTWORK in the world of cards. I think what they said about them losing sight of what they were set to achieve is right on the point! Gwent lost a lot of its uniqueness overtime; concepts like rows for example. I mean let's be honest putting a siege machine on melee row in a war and the cavalry on siege doesn't make much sense now does it?
However for me, the most important thing GWENT lost overtime was its depth. I hope they realize this. There are tons of card games out there, but GWENT was the 1st card game that had depth. I know some card texts were long but I believe in a way that was crucial to the depth of the game. If the game is complex, it jus needs a proper tutorial. but it has come down to a place where decks are value oriented e.g shupe is a T1 deck in the game, a deck that has absolutely no synergy and jus has points, then the game has simplified too much already.
I will definitely play gwent in the meanwhile. I jus hope they don't disappoint me after 6 months.
Best of luck guys!
I have played a lot of card games. Gwent has the best ARTWORK in the world of cards. I think what they said about them losing sight of what they were set to achieve is right on the point! Gwent lost a lot of its uniqueness overtime; concepts like rows for example. I mean let's be honest putting a siege machine on melee row in a war and the cavalry on siege doesn't make much sense now does it?
However for me, the most important thing GWENT lost overtime was its depth. I hope they realize this. There are tons of card games out there, but GWENT was the 1st card game that had depth. I know some card texts were long but I believe in a way that was crucial to the depth of the game. If the game is complex, it jus needs a proper tutorial. but it has come down to a place where decks are value oriented e.g shupe is a T1 deck in the game, a deck that has absolutely no synergy and jus has points, then the game has simplified too much already.
I will definitely play gwent in the meanwhile. I jus hope they don't disappoint me after 6 months.
Best of luck guys!
I'm really happy now of complete overhaul, you know without it game could be almost dead in 2019. Now knowing how CDPR is dedicated to games i'm surre Gwent will become succes as it deserves. Not beating Heartstone prob but that's not a goal, just getting at least half active players as HS got will be a great suuces and i hope for it.
el_Bosco;n10823581 said:
I would love to have an inside look at the development woes for this game. After the change in leadership, I think they probably tried to sell the game off in its terrible state by adding the Arena mode and trying to market it to the Hearthstone mass (i.e getting Kripp to stream). After this failed to attract a player base, I can only guess that upper management finally woke up and saw the change in leadership needed its chance to revamp the game or the player base was eventually going to crater if it continued in the same direction since Mid Winter fiasco.
I have to applaud the decision to change direction so drastically, even if it comes late. This seems like a recent decision (based on pushing Arena and aiming for the Hearthstone crowd, only now realizing the game isn't going to compete with HS ever so it might as well be revamped to attract different players), so I do wonder what they have been doing for the past few months. My guess is they were doing now redundant work that needs to be overhauled to fit the new vision.TBH I really question the competency of the entire design team they have (or had) and hope they add new faces to it. Most of all, I hope the new leadership/management has a compelling and cohesive vision moving forward that will NOT be heavily influenced by any of the prior design team members (that it will not be brainstormed or heavily collaborated on in a board room with them) because those members had their chance and either did not speak up against the direction the game was heading or were, sadly, incompetent and oblivious to the faults of the game they were helping design.
Every kick in the ass is a step forward. Unless you run into a wall or something.
Yeah, I'm not the best at motivating people...
Yeah, I'm not the best at motivating people...
SigilFey;n10819041 said:
I understand the general idea behind full mill value after a balance change. My point is that as soon as you apply it to every card in the game, people can not only use this for the purpose you stated: milling cards that they spend precious resources on to craft them, but people can use them to mill every additional copy they own in the game, while still keeping 1 copy of every epic/legendary and 3 copies of each common and rare. Knowing this 6 months in advance (along with any previous saving people may have done) will amount to a whole lot of crafting materials.
Not that I don't appreciate CDPR trying not to harm anyone, but this might be being overly generous to the point where it might harm them. Perhaps full mill value should only be applied to milling of non-spare copies of a card. Not that I think coming back on the full mill value is a realistic option, just philosophizing about a solution I suppose.
Anyway, though news for the coming months, but I hope the changes work out. I appreciate CDPR not being afraid of major overhauls. Hope they can re-introduce some meaning to the row mechanics, regardless of whether we end up with two rows or three. Depends on what mechanics you come up with I suppose.