Gwent is full of copy/pasted card design

[Ulubey0]

Does anyone else notice how the same cards exist in every faction? It's like CDPR feels the need to print the exact same card 5-6 times for each faction. It's easier to just show what I'm talking about so i made this quick infographic to help explain.

They are all the same! I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. This kind of card design feels really lazy and really detracts from faction identities. I mean even the power and provisions of these cards are always the same. I only showed about half the ones i noticed in that picture too, there's so many more but i thought that was enough to show where i was going.

I was a really big fan of the card design in the Beta Gwent because this sort of copy/pasted design never happened. We had series of cards back then but they were all different enough to feel unique.

• Like Silver Mages all had clear weather but they also had 2 unique abilities to choose from. Greminst could make bears and Ida could cast quen.
• Silver Locks could all lock but they had a secondary ability and their power was different. Like Morvudd had 6 power and could halve a unit, and Donar had 8 power and could swap cards in graveyard.

My point is that CDPR could learn from Beta about how to print a series of cards across all factions. They could make them different enough to feel unique and not feel like exact same card got printed 6 times with just different artwork. I know that they wanted to simplify all cards in Homecoming so they could chase that mobile money, but simple doesn't have to be this boring...

Also I wanted to point out that keywords like Intimidate, Assimilate, Harmony, Thrive are all really uninspired. They all just boost the card that has them by 1. Wouldn't it be better to take those keywords down the road started with Resupply and Inspired where a different ability (thats printed on the card) is triggered when those conditions are met? It would add a ton of diversity and really open up those keywords to new possibilities.

Well thanks for listening. I know there are alot of other problems in Gwent right now, but this is one that's just been irking me ever since Homecoming and I was hoping it would improve but it's kinda just become worse so i wanted to shine a light on it.

 

[DRK3]

Amazing work on that image, i would even say you put more effort than the one that went into designing some of those cards.

Unfortunately, you are right. Ever since the launch of Gwent HC we have been criticizing and alerting the devs that it has become a game of buffs and damages, plus and minus, all these different mechanics that were introduced in 2019, end up being the same.

Its the dumbing down aspect i've mentioned time and time again. And one of the reasons why open beta is still better than this.

 

[FG15-ISH7EG]

While you are true that there are some really similar cards in all the factions that isn't really surprising.

Let's start with the low provision bronzes, where there are even some more standard card types. But most of that is necessary, because bronze cards should build the base for archetypes. And therefore factions need cheap bronze cards they can easily fit into decks and that tie deck together. And that wasn't really that different from Beta, where we had cards too which boosted by 1 or damaged an enemy by 1 whenever X happened.

Compared to the size of the card pool the number of those copy pasted cards is probably still the same as in Beta.

The same with some of the gold cards. Boost all X by 1 is a basic mechanic that was also represented quite a bit in Beta, as well as the faction specific special card tutor. And damage by 1 with a cooldown of 1 is a pretty basic mechanic as well.
Of course all of these cards could be made into a single card, but then most of the tags they had would be lost and every one of them has some small specific tieing it to the faction that would be lost too.


And that is the point were the new design is actually a lot better than the one in Beta. Weather mages are one really good example. They really different from one another, but that wasn't good at all. Dethmold and Ida were played twice as much as any other of them, because they had Alzurs Thunder which was a great card in any situation, while all other weather mages were extremly situational and often not usefull at all.
The same with the silver spies, due to their different abilities some of them were a lot more useful than others, which was really a problem for such a central card.

Post automatically merged: Jan 11, 2020

Unfortunately, you are right. Ever since the launch of Gwent HC we have been criticizing and alerting the devs that it has become a game of buffs and damages, plus and minus, all these different mechanics that were introduced in 2019, end up being the same.

Its the dumbing down aspect i've mentioned time and time again. And one of the reasons why open beta is still better than this.

I never understood this argument. Open Beta was even more of plus and minus than Homecoming. The only reasoning that made a little bit of sense to me was the removal of armor, but that was obviously always meant to be readded later as it happened.

 

[Iuliandrei]

I was a really big fan of the card design in the Beta Gwent because this sort of copy/pasted design never happened. We had series of cards back then but they were all different enough to feel unique.

What exactly are you talking about, this happened in beta aswell. It was a meme people called it the "unga" design.
For example, you had the NG spotter which boosted self by 1 for each card revealed, then they made SK pirate captain and ST vanguard into the same card with discard/mulligan respectively. Same for warship, mangonel, neophyte.

I don't like this either, especially when cards with unique effects are changed into these generic reskins, it feels like there's one guy in the team that comes up with a good idea and everybody else copy/pastes it to every other factions. I wish they would stop this but pointing to beta as an example is completely ridiculous or nostalgia is blinding you.

 

[Ulubey0]

And that wasn't really that different from Beta, where we had cards too which boosted by 1 or damaged an enemy by 1 whenever X happened.

I'm glad you mentioned this because i think it just further proves my point. To show you that series of cards in Beta I made another image . Notice how different each of them play? How they all have different starting power values? How some are used as openers and others as finishers?

Open Beta was even more of plus and minus than Homecoming. The only reasoning that made a little bit of sense to me was the removal of armor, but that was obviously always meant to be readded later as it happened.

No at all, There were so many cards in Beta that had nothing to do with plus or minus points. These were some of my favorites. Notice how they aren't just based on arithmetic? It was a much deeper game back then.

For example, you had the NG spotter which boosted self by 1 for each card revealed, then they made SK pirate captain and ST vanguard into the same card with discard/mulligan respectively. Same for warship, mangonel, neophyte.

Here is every single card you mentioned from Beta. None of them are even remotely similar. I really think you just ended up helping my case. Even if you were trying to cherry-pick different versions of cards from different eras of Gwent they were still completely different.

EDIT: Every single card shown in these images is from the same Beta period directly before Homecoming!

 

[Iuliandrei]

Here is every single card you mentioned from Beta. None of them are even remotely similar. I really think you just ended up helping my case. Even if you were trying to cherry-pick different versions of cards from different eras of Gwent they were still completely different.

Dude, YOU are the one cherry picking here, i know what the cards did and yes there were many reworks and changes during beta, you picked different versions to prove your point, this is the definition of cherry picking. But at one point those cards i mentioned converged into a reskinned spotter.

here are a couple of reddit thread from 2017 about the same thing you're complaining now, back when the game was much "deeper"
https://www.reddit.com/r/gwent/comments/6wl4n2 https://www.reddit.com/r/gwent/comments/6pzgxf

 

[FG15-ISH7EG]

I'm glad you mentioned this because i think it just further proves my point. To show you that series of cards in Beta I made another image . Notice how different each of them play? How they all have different starting power values? How some are used as openers and others as finishers?

As said above, Dol Blathanna Sentry, Pirate Captain, Nekkers and Spotter were basically the same card at one point. And your argument only holds because of the special card selection you have. Furthermore, most of those cards still exists.
Impera Brigade is Isengrim, Siege Support is Reynard Odo, Ancient Foglet is Ice Troll, Axeman is Greatsword.
The biggest difference to Beta is that we now have a lot of gold engines too, which means there is even greater variance in power and starting values.

The main problem with all the units at the same power level is that those are necessary for the game. There has to be one way or another to bind an archetype together with cheap bronze cards. And I'd welcome any different suggestion for those cards, that are low provision, not too complicated and not included anywhere in the game.
The difference to Open Beta is that we have much stronger archetypes with a lot more support now, while at the same time having less copies of the same card and having less auto include cards over all factions.

No at all, There were so many cards in Beta that had nothing to do with plus or minus points. These were some of my favorites. Notice how they aren't just based on arithmetic? It was a much deeper game back then.

What exactly does this prove? It's just a list of cards. All you have proven is that there are at least 5 cards (as Nekker is an arithmetic card) that aren't arithmetic in Beta, which was never doubted. Also, the Elven Scout effect is still in the game.

 

[Allistre]

The difference to Open Beta is that we have much stronger archetypes with a lot more support now

Anyone who played Beta for even an hour would know this isn't true. Why are you even trying so hard to defend dumbed down card design with nonsense?

Saying Nekkers and Spotters were the same?
WTF no they wernt.

Saying there wasnt gold engines in Beta?
Of course there was.

Saying Elven Scout effect is still in game?
Impossible, Swap isn't even a mechanic anymore.

Your points don't even make sense.

 

[Draconifors]

A reminder to keep it civil and respectful, regardless of others' opinions.

 

[Pacifixer]

Does anyone else notice how the same cards exist in every faction? It's like CDPR feels the need to print the exact same card 5-6 times for each faction. It's easier to just show what I'm talking about so i made this quick infographic to help explain.

They are all the same! I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. This kind of card design feels really lazy and really detracts from faction identities. I mean even the power and provisions of these cards are always the same. I only showed about half the ones i noticed in that picture too, there's so many more but i thought that was enough to show where i was going.

I was a really big fan of the card design in the Beta Gwent because this sort of copy/pasted design never happened. We had series of cards back then but they were all different enough to feel unique.

• Like Silver Mages all had clear weather but they also had 2 unique abilities to choose from. Greminst could make bears and Ida could cast quen.
• Silver Locks could all lock but they had a secondary ability and their power was different. Like Morvudd had 6 power and could halve a unit, and Donar had 8 power and could swap cards in graveyard.

My point is that CDPR could learn from Beta about how to print a series of cards across all factions. They could make them different enough to feel unique and not feel like exact same card got printed 6 times with just different artwork. I know that they wanted to simplify all cards in Homecoming so they could chase that mobile money, but simple doesn't have to be this boring...

Also I wanted to point out that keywords like Intimidate, Assimilate, Harmony, Thrive are all really uninspired. They all just boost the card that has them by 1. Wouldn't it be better to take those keywords down the road started with Resupply and Inspired where a different ability (thats printed on the card) is triggered when those conditions are met? It would add a ton of diversity and really open up those keywords to new possibilities.

Well thanks for listening. I know there are alot of other problems in Gwent right now, but this is one that's just been irking me ever since Homecoming and I was hoping it would improve but it's kinda just become worse so i wanted to shine a light on it.

I noticed this as well. I understand that all the factions should have at least somewhat equal access to some key tech cards (Defender, purify, artifact removal, thining, tutor,....) and some bronze archetipe cards (Dryad fledgeling, Dwarven merc, Elven blademaster, ....), but they should not have equal access to generic point-slam cards or engines (Pavko, Rayla, NG Tortoise, The Beast, .....). All of them have some sort of factional twist, but they are still unnecessary.

 

[hachri80]

All this wouldn't be so problematic if the unique mechanics of the factions (that still exist) were stronger or at least playable. Skellige used to have strong synergies with graveyard, discard and revive mechanics but there isn't much left of it. Same can be said for ST movement, NG spies, Monster deathwish, NR armor. It's all still there but lacks support or synergies. I think mechanics like Crew and Resupply are great but super weak, at least without the scenario.

So it comes down to this thrive-harmony-boosting stuff and denying it. I'm not saying that beta was better but the archtypes felt stronger for sure. Btw I hated the old Nekker mechanic.