Gwent Tactics

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Gwent Tactics

To see all Gwent Tactic versions please visit these links (login required details below):


Gwent Tactics v0.0.1: https://docs.zoho.eu/file/ilxgr78c66...e4daacd3aa5874
Gwent Tactics v0.0.2: https://forums.cdprojektred.com/foru...1#post10109311
Gwent Tactics v0.0.3: https://forums.cdprojektred.com/foru...1#post10112571
Gwent Tactics v0.0.4: https://forums.cdprojektred.com/foru...2#post10123942
Gwent Tactics v0.0.5: https://forums.cdprojektred.com/foru...2#post10142472
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Nice ideas on how to use the row-layers and the position on a given row! My favorite is the Shield Wall. It reminds me a little the old trio ability, but with a different background, which suits the lore.

If I may say having multiple effects attached a single mechanics could prove too complicated. For example as far as Shield of Wall is concerned, one has to remember the trigger (3 or more armored units on a row) and multiple effects (+1 armor +1 health for units in a Shield Wall per turn / prevent damage to a row below / range units behind shield of wall does one damage on deploy).

For simplicity I would just give one big effect instead of three different ones. Maybe something like: prevent damage to the row below (including scorch). So that you can hide large amount of points behind the Wall and the opponent has to crack it first, and only afterwards can remove the threat.
 

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sfruzz;n10106421 said:
For simplicity I would just give one big effect instead of three different ones.

Yes, it has to be simple to work. I will redo this accordingly tomorrow.
 

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TACTICS Version 0.02

Update.

I added some additional rules to Tactics.

1. Each faction need to have 1 which represents it best.
2. It should be a board related effect.
3. It should be a position triggered effect, rather than damage or boosting.
4. Lore related if possible.
5. Doesn't break a game.
6. Each faction has an interesting counter to any tactic.
7. Tactics interact with each other in an interesting way.

If you wish to help Gwent to keep it's face, please download the DOC file from here and help improve Gwent.

https://nofile.io/f/chBGqUdQK42/TACTICS.docx
TACTICS v.0.0.2

NORTHERN REALMS: SHIELD WALL


Shield Wall: Three or more armoured units stacked together forms a Shield Wall.
Effect: Prevents all damage and special effects to a row below.
Counters:
Northern Realms: Removing armour.
Scoiatael: Moving units away or into shield wall.
Nilfgaard: Placing a spy into shield wall or if Formation is active.
Monsters: Terror is active on opposite to Shield Wall row.
Skellige: Working on Skellige.

NILFGAARD: FORMATION

Formation: having a unit in each row creates a Formation.
Effect: All damage splits between units in formation equally. Units can be wounded, but not killed.
Counters:
Northern Realms: Shield Wall with more units than Formation stops the effect.
Scoiatael: Moving units to keep rows empty.
Nilfgaard: Less loyal than disloyal units on your side of the board break Formation.
Monsters: 2 out of 3 rows on your side with weather effects break Formation. Terror can cause formation to break if applied.
Skellige: Working on Skellige.

MONSTERS: TERROR

Formation: Having double amount of units than opposite row activates Terror on that row.
Effect: While Terror is active, moves both flanks on the opposite row one row up.
Counters:
Northern Realms: Terror moves only one flank on row which has Shield Wall.
Scoiatael: Outmanoeuvre row with Terror effect.
Nilfgaard: While Formation is active Terror calculation takes into account 2 rows on your side.
Monsters: Side with more bodies apply Terror.
Skellige: Working on Skellige.

SCOIATAEL: MANOEUVRE

Manoeuvre: Wounding Scoiatael unit activates Manoeuvre.
Effect: A decoy effect is applied to wounded card at the end of your turn. Limited to 1 manoeuvre a turn.
Counters:
Northern Realms: Manoeuvre doesn’t apply if opposite row has Shield Wall.
Scoiatael: -//-
Nilfgaard: Manoeuvre doesn’t apply if opposite side has Formation.
Monsters: Manoeuvre doesn’t apply if opposite row has Terror.
Skellige: Working on Skellige.

SKELLIGE: WEDGE

Still don't know how to implement tactics to Skellige. Skellige is quite unique as a faction. Help Me.
 
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That sure is a lot of mentions. But anyway... feedback you wanted, feedback you shall receive.


First off, great job coming up with all those tactics, not to mention the rules they play by. Can't have been a small amount of work!

To be honest I'm not sure the game needs additional mechanics as complex as these, though. But hey, I'm just a casual player. :p

Skellige tactic could maybe revolve around the Clan tags; something like having X number of units from the same clan triggers effect Y. No idea about specifics or counters; it was just in idea that immediately came to mind when thinking of Skellige. I'm no game designer anyway.
 
I quite like your idea. And it could be implemented in a separate mode maybe, something more tied to the lore and RP than to the base game, where daily rewards don't count and you play to try out new things :)

I feel like it is very easy to counter the NR tactic though. Spies are pretty common, so are movers. Maybe keep things simpler and make the shield wall applicable if you have at least 3 armored units on the board (anywhere on the board) with lesser effect. Like "one random unit that is part of the shield wall gets 1 armor and 1 or 2 health each turn". Rows have lost all meaning anyway by now. On the other hand, the tactic counter must be based on the enemy tactic, not the units. Because otherwise, if you play NG reveal and not spies while the enemy has the current NR tactic you are done, you are at a disadvantage from the beginning.

I also feel the tactics are too damage-boosting centered. That is kinda what you want to avoid with the introduction of tactics from what I understand.

So, let me work a bit on them *gears grinding*
 
As interesting as your ideas are, I feel like they're more suited for a different game altogether. The archetypes you suggested are much more limited in design than the archetypes the game currently has. What you're suggesting is developing mechanics that create a single archetype for each faction. This is going to create stale game-play because every match is going to play out roughly the same. I think your ideas are better suited as special mechanics for single player challenges. Generally I don't think you want to develop faction mechanics outside of cards. We had this is closed beta (Monsters kept a random creature, NG got an extra mulligan, SC got to determine who went fist, etc) and it was really hard to balance. Your ideas are like these, except they affect game-play on a fundamental level. I think what you want is to create more faction identity but I don't think this is the way to do it. You need to develop the mechanics so they're card text instead. This makes them more interactable by both players which is super important.
 
Wow. Definitely A++ for effort.

These are actually kinda lore-friendly changes that would make you feel the depth of each faction instead of generic common features. They all make sense. I think "Specialization" sound better than tactics since they are special to each faction.

Initial thoughts:
  • Version 0.02 is way better.
  • I especially liked Terror mechanic.
  • Shield wall seems a bit OP to be honest. There are tons way to provide armor in NR thus making your whole board virtually immune. Imagine having five 6+ armor units together in a row and you rowstack behind them. Enemy plays spy, you armor it too. Idea is awesome though. Needs some brainstorming.
  • Need to limit it one specialization on board at once for Shield Wall and Terror.
  • Skellige may revolve around Sea/Raid/Damaging Enemy. Islands inhabited with pirates and warriors. Like "If you have 5 or more soldiers on board, deal 1 damage to 5 random enemies every turn." (given numbers are random)
 

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ser2440;n10109771 said:
I quite like your idea. And it could be implemented in a separate mode maybe, something more tied to the lore and RP than to the base game, where daily rewards don't count and you play to try out new things :)

I feel like it is very easy to counter the NR tactic though. Spies are pretty common, so are movers. Maybe keep things simpler and make the shield wall applicable if you have at least 3 armored units on the board (anywhere on the board) with lesser effect. Like "one random unit that is part of the shield wall gets 1 armor and 1 or 2 health each turn". Rows have lost all meaning anyway by now. On the other hand, the tactic counter must be based on the enemy tactic, not the units. Because otherwise, if you play NG reveal and not spies while the enemy has the current NR tactic you are done, you are at a disadvantage from the beginning.

I also feel the tactics are too damage-boosting centered. That is kinda what you want to avoid with the introduction of tactics from what I understand.

So, let me work a bit on them *gears grinding*

I'd like it to be easy to counter and easy to reactivate. There are infinite possibilities.
I'm glad you said that rows has lost it's meaning. I agree and I want to make them count again. It's a board game and the board should count.
And, yes I'd like it to be different from card effects, it should be fundamental board effects. It should not be damage or boosting centered (which I tried to remove in tactics v.0.02).
 

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leprochauninja;n10109831 said:
I think what you want is to create more faction identity but I don't think this is the way to do it. You need to develop the mechanics so they're card text instead. This makes them more interactable by both players which is super important.

Yes, I want faction identity, but I disagree it should be card effects. I think Gwent would be more interesting with board effects. But let's go with your idea. How would you create faction identity with card effects.
 
Well first of all i see some of them are tied to a specific archetype, like NR armor and ST movement and even the monster one incentivizes swarm tactics. I guess you may want this to be universal, like a new faction passive.

Personally i like Shield Wall the most, it may be a cool way to protect units, i mean i wanted to suggest something like this, i remember in Duel of Champions you had units with "Towering" ability which blocked you from targeting units on the row behind them.

A problem i see with Nilfgaard is the unit designation, while machines are siege, archers are ranged and knights are melee, most units are rather ambiguous, especially new units like Master of Diguise or Sentry.

For the monster one you may want a number, double can mean you have 2 units when i have 1, which raises many questions. Also when does it trigger? does it trigger once or is it ongoing? if you already move some units and i place one more unit on that row would they move again? this one seems very confusing.

Another option would be to make these universals, i don't see why you couldn't make a Nilfgaardian shield wall, though this might not work for everything, i see the ST one is more like a passive than a formation you have to trigger. Or have multiple tactics for each faction, which you add beside your leader, this could be visible from the start of the game to both players.

As a suggestion, for skellige mainly i guess, you may want to use the unit power aswell for requirement. A configuration of lower power units and high power ones maybe.
 

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Iuliandrei;n10110011 said:
i see the ST one is more like a passive than a formation you have to trigger. Or have multiple tactics for each faction, which you add beside your leader, this could be visible from the start of the game to both players.

The initial idea was "If Scoia is wounded creates a temporary decoy card for the next turn", but it creates card advantage and is no longer plainly board effect.
Yes, you're right it's a forced effect. It has to be something a player can choose not to do. Also MANOEUVRE fits elves, not dwarves lorewise.

I also had idea that elves move, and dwarves gets resilience, but thats way too OP.

Scoiatel is a problem to me, because I don't play it much. Any Scoia player around?
 
I think each faction needs to have 3, with players choosing 1 actually :)

For NR, these could be Shield Wall, Strength in Numbers and Machine Swarm (suitable for armor, swarm and machines respectively)

For Nilfgaard, Subterfuge, Intelligence and Formation (tailored for spies, reveal and soldier respectively)

For Monsters it could be Terror, Endless Swarm and Resilience ( the latter having to do with weather effects. Monsters adapt to harsh conditions so they could gain bonuses from weather. Terror would be more tailored to WH as they are the pinnacle of a terrifying force and Endless Swarm to insectoids and other swarmers mostly. Having to do with how many units you have on the board :) )

For Skellige, Battle Fury (for berserkers and bears), Raid (light and war longships as well as dimun units could benefit from that) and Freya's Blessing (having to do with reviving soldiers. Decks with Priestesses would benefit the most from that)

For Scoia'tael it could be Ambush, Agility and Entrapment (the first benefits ambush units, the second movers, and the third Dol Blathanna trappers and placing hazards on enemy rows. I feel it suits them because guerillas have to choose carefully where and when to strike. Alternatively you could merge the first and the third and make another called "Courage". Meaning Scoia'Tael units are driven by their zeal to stop being oppressed, they have a cause higher than coin or serving a king, so they could gain a bonus when you get more than one units of the same type on the board when their units, being comrades, are fighting side by side, something that would benefit the half elf hunters for example)

As to what exactly they could be, I have a few ideas but I'll need more time for that.I also feel each faction needs to have Golds or leaders that when played, trigger a faction tactic. Like Eredin triggering the terror effect when joining the board, dagon the resilience tactic and Arachas Queen the Endless Swarm tactic. Vattier de Rideaux could trigger the Intelligence tactic boost for his side, or Voorhis. Then Shilard/Menno would trigger the Subterfuge tactic boost, etc.
 

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ser2440;n10110181 said:
I think each faction needs to have 3, with players choosing 1 actually :)

For NR, these could be Shield Wall, Strength in Numbers and Machine Swarm (suitable for armor, swarm and machines respectively)

For Nilfgaard, Subterfuge, Intelligence and Formation (tailored for spies, reveal and soldier respectively)

For Monsters it could be Terror, Endless Swarm and Resilience ( the latter having to do with weather effects. Monsters adapt to harsh conditions so they could gain bonuses from weather. Terror would be more tailored to WH as they are the pinnacle of a terrifying force and Endless Swarm to insectoids and other swarmers mostly. Having to do with how many units you have on the board :) )

For Skellige, Battle Fury (for berserkers and bears), Raid (light and war longships as well as dimun units could benefit from that) and Freya's Blessing (having to do with reviving soldiers. Decks with Priestesses would benefit the most from that)

For Scoia'tael it could be Ambush, Agility and Entrapment (the first benefits ambush units, the second movers, and the third Dol Blathanna trappers and placing hazards on enemy rows. I feel it suits them because guerillas have to choose carefully where and when to strike. Alternatively you could merge the first and the third and make another called "Courage". Meaning Scoia'Tael units are driven by their zeal to stop being oppressed, they have a cause higher than coin or serving a king, so they could gain a bonus when you get more than one units of the same type on the board when their units, being comrades, are fighting side by side, something that would benefit the half elf hunters for example)

As to what exactly they could be, I have a few ideas but I'll need more time for that.I also feel each faction needs to have Golds or leaders that when played, trigger a faction tactic. Like Eredin triggering the terror effect when joining the board, dagon the resilience tactic and Arachas Queen the Endless Swarm tactic. Vattier de Rideaux could trigger the Intelligence tactic boost for his side, or Voorhis. Then Shilard/Menno would trigger the Subterfuge tactic boost, etc.

Yes, Iuliandrei mentioned that tactics v.0.02 is one archetype oriented. This would solve this issue. Also, its a lot of gimp work :D:(

My main concern = 3 tactics per faction makes it almost impossible for them to interact. It has to be simple to work.

Ok, what if we don't create 3 tactics per faction, but archetype based interaction to each tactic and keep 5 tactics. So 5 tactics per game of gwent and 3 counters per faction???.
 
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Not if they share similar effects. I feel the only "simple enough" mechanic to work is movement and a slight damage/healing. For example Intelligence could be something like "if at the start of your turn there are 3 or more enemy cards revealed, you may move a bronze unit (yours or the opponent's) to a different row" It has to be bronze. So Morvran and Vattier would both trigger that as soon as you play them, that movement, simply because they would trigger the tactic effect. That way intelligence could stop tactics like Shield Wall, or Formation. It is also easy to counter by playing the revealed cards or moving your units back, or even not playing bronze units. As I noticed, your tactics are mostly countered by movement so we could capitalize on that. If they are all board dependent, then they all interact via what is on the board, so through the same medium :) Faction tactics should differ from faction abilities that way.

Example: Terror is triggered not by having double the amount of units on your row, but by having at least 3 "terror units" (like a tag. Every WH could be terror) on your row. If you do, terror is applied to the enemy row and moves one random bronze enemy from that row to a random other row (even another row with terror). Eredin is an exception and applies terror on the enemy row on his own. To counter? simply lock one of the enemy units or move them apart (Locked units would not count). And the randomness of the movement ensures no abuse of Merigold's Hailstorm can take place :) Best use would be to get the most crowded enemy row under terror to push enemies on the other two rows which conveniently, will have frost :) Even if you have terror units on your deck though, if you haven't picked the tactic, the effect won't work

Another example: Endless Swarm triggers by having double the amount of units on the enemy row on your row. When it does, every unit that dies on that row instead leaves behind a STR 1 token. If that dies though, it doesn't leave a token in its place. Simple effect, not OP, easy to counter :)



 

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Sounds ok. Now i will have to put that on paper. I will however remove "random" effects. Tactics version 0.03 coming soon.
 
I'm still out of town and have played an hour of the new update .. I'll be home in a couple days tho
 
Karolis.petrikas;n10109981 said:
Yes, I want faction identity, but I disagree it should be card effects. I think Gwent would be more interesting with board effects. But let's go with your idea. How would you create faction identity with card effects.

So the issue with board effects like these is that it's going to really limit design space. If I play NR with this my goal is going to be to stack three units together all the time for every match or I'm losing potential. How do you then evolve the game overtime? Make more tactics? This doesn't really work because this is a board effect so you're not only going to be trying to go for the three stack, but the new tactic introduced as well. The more you add to it, the less open and free it's going to feel. This is why they'd have to be card effects. So keeping with NR, this shield wall would essentially be bringing back the "trio" ability to produce an effect.

As mentioned you could have to select a tactic during deck-building and that's the tactic for that deck, but I still think that's restricting on game-play. There's a big trade-off to having a lot of tactics though. The more you add, the less beginner friendly the game becomes. This is part of the issue with having them as board effects as well, they're not beginner friendly. Card effects make them easier to deal with, understand, and play around.
 
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