Gwent Tactics

[Guest 4021160]

Oh no, I don't mean you should just scrap these ideas because I genuinely think they're good. I just think you could come up with cards instead. For example:

Shield Wall
Northern Realms Tactics
Strength: 8
Rarity: Silver
Gain 20 armor
Prevent enemies on the bottom row from getting damaged.

Something like that. It's obvious that you've put a lot of thought into this, good job. I personally would just like to see them in cards instead.

I started this because I want board to matter more.

 

[partci]

I think someone already said it, but this will be nice for a separate mode - it's a whole different game you are suggesting there.

 

[Guest 4021160]

I think someone already said it, but this will be nice for a separate mode - it's a whole different game you are suggesting there.

yes, perhaps an Event. at best

 

[HTMekkatorque]

I sit in my chair thinking like wow this guys so clearly motivated, he'd probably work on your game for free. What hes suggesting isn't terrible, maybe not fitting into gwent but surely there is a market for this kind of crazieness, why does every game have to follow some simplicity structure like its game dev law. That and I feel theres only so many things needed to be done by very capable people that aren't degrading etc etc but then everybody wants to do something meaningful (computer games however not very impactful) but to this guys small life in the 3 hours after I'm sure he unpacks some boxes of stock for some supermarket making way too much profit, this actually means something to this guy. That and if there is a market for said game far more complicated, why has nobody tapped into it yet.

 

[Guest 4021160]

Thank you HTMekkatorque for your kind words.

A bit ranty here so apologies in advance. I'll try to keep it civil.

I'm sorry, but I refuse to accept this doesn't fit gwent. It has to fit gwent. The board has so much potential it really pains me to see that rows are there to separate damage and boost only.

Can anyone name what else that board does to the game, besides making effects like lacerate valid as oppose to absolute OP bonkers[SUP]TM[/SUP] if it wasn't restricted to 1 row? [SUB](A bit bold there, but really can't see other uses)[/SUB]

I believe CDPR has something in mind for the board and here's why i think so.
1. They introduced positioning (which was absolutely brilliant).
2. They have started playing with vertical effects (like the beer or the dwarf sabotage guy).

I don't know if you are aware, but that beer effect required a ton of coding, since this is the first effect going outside 1 row. And that means game engine level coding, not just glitter.

Now that Gwent engine is capable of vertical as well as horizontal effects. Gwent tactics is absolutely viable.

Someone was saying earlier Gwent Tactic can't work, because units are agile. ok. ok . ok ok . okok ok okok. ... stop....stop stop stop stop shtfffff... calm down ... think...
Why would you put shield wall on siege row? or why would you put a shield wall on a row that has a hazard? see where I am getting at? Your opponent can create restrictions for your shield wall if he/she sees you can use it. There are so many possibilities... its so interesting... a person could choose a faction and actually study its tactic, just like simplified chess. And yet you are not restricted to used it if you don't feel like it.

I'm telling you this is a way for gwent to strive. No one would ever again compare it to hearthstone.

I can visualise it very clearly.

Respectfully,
Karolis

 

[Guest 4021160]

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Gwent Tactics v0.0.4

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Hi all,
All of you in one form or another suggested to move away from complex faction based combinations and try 1 out of 3 architype based effect triggered by leader or win/lose situation.​

Thank you x1Cygnus , ser2440 , Shadow-Stalker , hydra66 for your valuable insight. When CDPR finally notices this and creates an Event based on this I will have you to thank to. Haha time.

In this version I changed factions based combination into just one. 3 stacked units with tiny amount of faction flavour. So all tactics is now triggered identically (almost).

A triggered tactic will let you choose out of 3 effects. It’s very consistent and simple. I think I really nailed it with v.0.0.4 and it’s a lot less of a read. Please let me know what you think.

To see all Gwent Tactic versions please visit these links (login required details below):

Gwent Tactics v0.0.1: https://docs.zoho.eu/file/ilxgr78c66...e4daacd3aa5874
Gwent Tactics v0.0.2: https://docs.zoho.eu/file/ilxgr842b3...cd94e3e6ca0adc
Gwent Tactics v0.0.3: https://docs.zoho.eu/file/ilxgra4613...e51b47ffd38679
Gwent Tactics v0.0.4: https://docs.zoho.eu/file/ilxgrd77f9...26fd114d70b086

Login Details:
guestopbonkers@gmail.com
Free@ccess123

Feel free to download it, mess with it and send it back to that email.​

 

[x1Cygnus]

Karolis.petrikas

I have a particularly busy weekend coming up starting tomorrow, but I will try and have a read of this over the weekend when I have a spare few moments to myself. Cheers

 

[Guest 4021160]

marcelgroot - "It feels like there is not tactic anymore..."
rulezfin - "4100 rating is more than enough for me this season and the game is simply not fun anymore"
Babatino - "I'm a fairly new player (started when Saovine was winding down), and I'm not "feeling" it anymore either. It just seems... dumbed down?"
Kinglionsfox - "I will wait to see if the next patch will keep going this new path or not."
bboczula - "The main point in this discussion is that the game feels like just putting cards on the table, like there is no soul no more"
Stormbuster - "I am as well not feeling the game anymore."
merim_10 - "Game lost everything that made it special in my opinion."
Iuliandrei - "This happened pretty much every patch and we had the netdeckers vomiting cards on the board thinking they're some tactical masterminds"
Mystikast - "This game has lost it for me. It's very boring. Same thing over and over. No variability."
Idiotruinsgame - "making a few new people happy while driving away your existing customers is still no way to operate."
Chickencababs - "I'm going to try and like it, but the fact I'm saying try means I'm probably just going to delete this mess"
FG15-ISH7EG - "I greatly dislike all the spawn cards and that a lot fo cards were simplified"
nemirni - "it is just crazy. combined with power swings it makes game so ... not what it used to be. flashy swings with flashy graphics i suppose that is where the devs want to take this game..."
Lyphian92 - "It feels as if the cards have no weight anymore, and strategy has ceased to exist."
Hydrahead - "they've removed/simplified cards that made the game unique such as the Old Speartip."
slow_cheeetah - "I don't like that game transformed to "Battle of 20 points swings". It's ridicoulus!"
altaybek - "Do you know what I feel? Rage and salt."

I invite you all to make a difference. Create your strategies, add depth to cards, show CDPR what you think is right.
Heres tools to do so:
https://forums.cdprojektred.com/foru...2#post10123942

every peace of advice and every effort will be much appreciated.

Go here:
https://docs.zoho.eu/login.jsp

Login:
guestopbonkers@gmail.com
Free@ccess123

Send your ideas to:

opbonkers@mail.com

 

[fodare]

However to this "I don't understand what's lore friendly about three melee range trebuchets creating a shield wall in front of a single mage" I'd like to reply with this:

I don't understand what those images mean or how it justifies agile siege weapons lol In fact, they seem to support what I said.


Also, the board playing a role is a great and unique idea that should not be cast aside. But your ideas for the board mechanics don't mesh with the rest of the game. What about cards, or different boards, that caused board wide events? That way you could have each faction have their own themed board with their own themed mechanics, but it's happening to both players, rather than a 'tactic to employ.' That would fit better with the agile/RNG direction they want to ruin the game with.

Can anyone name what else that board does to the game, besides making effects like lacerate valid as oppose to absolute OP bonkersTM

Nothing. That's why people don't like agile units. That's why your idea won't fit that well. You could also change the row labels to '1', '2', and '3' since the specific names aren't really applicable anymore.

I'm sorry, but I refuse to accept this doesn't fit gwent.

Your idea is great for Gwent, fits in perfectly and makes it interesting. Unfortunately, this isn't Gwent anymore.

 

[Guest 4021160]

I don't understand what those images mean or how it justifies agile siege weapons lol In fact, they seem to support what I said.

Those images was a sloppy way of saying something between the lines of: if you cant justifythe lore of "melee range trebuchets creating a shield wall in front of a single mage" how about a mage in between two armies. Then I added picture of trailer fragment where Yenefer is actually standing between two armies, which is technically speaking lore. And the last image means "imagination is the only limit".

Ah... dang... wanted to act cool and all. .. . .

 

[fodare]

Ah... dang... wanted to act cool and all. .. . .

Chalk it up to me being so extremely uncool that I just didn't get you're very clearly, and very obviously, super cool and hilarious joke

Is it possible to make the game non-all-agiley?

If my spidey senses are correct then that's no, so to try to make your idea work. Are you completely opposed to card's abilities being involved in the board effects? ie. a card that triggers shield wall. Or do you solely want it about positioning of any unit on the board?

Do you think adding a grid to the board would help your idea? Maybe even make it so that you can place the units anywhere in the grid on the rows, you can have all bunch up on one side or spaces in between, that might make for some very interesting mechanics. Maybe new cards with more abilities based on specific places on the grid? Add a row indicator at the top, make it like battleship lol It's basically the grid now, just without very much control. And if you're looking to incorporate the rows on the y axis then, maybe we're gonna start playing battleship?

Except you get to look at your opponent's side.

 

[HTMekkatorque]

fodare the game you just described already exists and is called duelyst.

 

[Guest 4021160]

Do you think adding a grid to the board would help your idea? Maybe even make it so that you can place the units anywhere in the grid on the rows, you can have all bunch up on one side or spaces in between, that might make for some very interesting mechanics. Maybe new cards with more abilities based on specific places on the grid? Add a row indicator at the top, make it like battleship lol It's basically the grid now, just without very much control. And if you're looking to incorporate the rows on the y axis then, maybe we're gonna start playing battleship?

can you present some schematics of the grid? If it's chess like grid - tactics like pins, discovered attacks, forks becomes possible, but its way beyond Gwent capabilites at the moment.

Currently gwent indexes units row-wise like this:

melee - Unit 1 - Unit 2 - Unit 3 - Unit 4 - melee
range - Unit 1 - Unit 2 - Unit 3 - Unit 4 - range
siege - Unit 1 - Unit 2 - Unit 3 - Unit 4 - siege

A grid would require board indexing

melee - Unit 1 - Unit 2 - Unit 3 - Unit 4 - melee
range - Unit 5 - Unit 6 - Unit 7 - Unit 8 - range
siege - Unie 9 - Unit 10 - Unit 11 - Unit 12 - siege

But that doesn't specify which row the card is placed to, what is the starting position of first card placed on the row, etc. To solve this an increment indexing should go from central position, both directions.

melee - (unit-2) - (unit-1) - (unit-0) - (unit+1) - (unit+2) - melee , where unit - 0 is a central position on a row.
range - (unit-2) - (unit-1) - (unit-0) - (unit+1) - (unit+2) - range
siege - (unit-2) - (unit-1) - (unit-0) - (unit+1) - (unit+2) - siege

That creates a problem of interacting vertically.

The indexing to achieve that would be this:

(unit +1:-2) - (unit +1:-1) - (unit +1:0) - (unit +1:+1) - (unit +1:+2) , where a number (0:0) means central unit.
(unit: 0:-2) - (unit 0:-1) - (unit 0:0) - (unit 0:+1) - (unit 0:+2)
(unit -1:-2) - (unit -1:-1) - (unit -1:0) - (unit -1:+1) - (unit -1:+2)

So hypothetically if theres an effect for a unit in the exact center of the board to boost 2 units on the left side of the row above on deploy its:

Unit 0:0 -> boost +1(n-1)/2) , to boost the last unit, where n is an amount of units on the line.
and to boost second to last its:
-((n-1)/2) = m
boost +1:m+1

Thats Grid in a nutshell. Haha time.

 

[Khreygond]

Karolis.petrikas my main concern is that terror will allow the player to abuse hailstorm. While in general, the new tactics flow far better than the last. Cleansing also seems a bit weak comparatively.

I'd change Cleansing with this personally:

Machine Swarm. Stacking 3 Machines on a row triggers bombardment on the opposite row. Applies a hazard that damages 3 units on the opposite row by 1 each turn.

Then Freya's Blessing into "Revive a bronze unit with up to 8 power"

Entrapment can instead lock 1 unit.

Formation, I feel units that reach 1 STR, can only be killed if damaged further after that. So basically, suppose it's strength 5. You damage it by 7. It goes down to 1. Then if you damage it, it gets killed. but since damage is distributed equally in the formation, it will take a while

And well, as you know, I am not a big fan of giving an extra blizzard to WH they already have enough Frost cards to play as it is xD I'd use Harsh Conditions which, if you stack 3 units on your row, allows you to move a unit to the opposite row, perfect for when played with weather

 

[Guest 4021160]

Karolis.petrikas my main concern is that terror will allow the player to abuse hailstorm. While in general, the new tactics flow far better than the last. Cleansing also seems a bit weak comparatively.

I'd change Cleansing with this personally:

Machine Swarm. Stacking 3 Machines on a row triggers bombardment on the opposite row. Applies a hazard that damages 3 units on the opposite row by 1 each turn.

Then Freya's Blessing into "Revive a bronze unit with up to 8 power"

Entrapment can instead lock 1 unit.

Formation, I feel units that reach 1 STR, can only be killed if damaged further after that. So basically, suppose it's strength 5. You damage it by 7. It goes down to 1. Then if you damage it, it gets killed. but since damage is distributed equally in the formation, it will take a while

And well, as you know, I am not a big fan of giving an extra blizzard to WH they already have enough Frost cards to play as it is xD I'd use Harsh Conditions which, if you stack 3 units on your row, allows you to move a unit to the opposite row, perfect for when played with weather

Can you PM with your email? I will give admin rights, so you can create v0.0.5 yourself

 

[Khreygond]

Nah, I cannot put enough thought into this to make the whole v0.0.5 sorry :/ just passing remarks and (hopefully) constructive criticism. I quite like your ideas though

 

[Guest 4021160]

Karolis.petrikas

Entrapment can instead lock 1 unit.

This is good idea.

 

[Snake_Foxhounder]

Not the best person to talk about this, as I took a break from Gwent and I'm not up to speed with it currently. But I like the idea. It adds a lot of flavor to the game and returns some of that faction identity that was lost.

Not sure about balance but something like this would go a long way to returning Gwent to what it was, a tactics (no pun intended) based card game, instead of "X card spawns random Y".

 

[hydra66]

NR: 'Cheer' should be changed to motivate or inspire
'Half all damage to a row below' - rounding up or down?
At what point are these effects considered broken? Would some factions have an effect when broken? Do you need to consider rout to balance some of these tactics out?

s/c - what does an ambush token do?

 

[Guest 4021160]

1. Ambush token gives possibility to put any card face down on deploy and flip it over in 2 turns. Thats a bluff mechanic, just need to balance it by adding a boost. Opponent will than have to guess if its real ambush or not. Ambush token is not currently in the game.
2. Half damage rounding down.

Balancing it requires to valuate its maximum and minimum possible outcome and take and average of those two numbers.
then compare it with others. Boost or nerf accordingly.
Then evaluate how situational it is and compare it to others.
Boost effects that requires more setup.
This is really difficult. Im working on it.

Theres no way to know if an effect is broken without testing. But nerfing tactic is easier than nerfing cards.