Has CDPR Peaked??

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so far they have shown that they are having a hard time fixing bugs in their game. so i wouldn't expect to much extra stuff from them
 
Yes, I'd say that's also true. Play the Witcher games after CP2077 and it's easy to notice the improvements and enhancements.
Can you elaborate on this improvements? Because from limited comparisons that I've done, the AI is actually worse - at least in terms of reaction to obstacles and perceived threat from player.
Not to mention that population density seems to be lower in Cyberpunk, for some reason.
I don't disagree with your edit. Still there is something to be said about how we've become too accustomed to marketing spiel being what it is and companies getting away with it :shrug:
Now this, this is an absolutely correct take.
I fail to see why companies can over exaggerate features like crazy during the promotion, but then be let of the hook after release with technicalities. I don't think when people've heard "this game will be better than Witcher 3", for example, they've expected "moderately better in certain aspects, under certain point of view".
 
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The question was "has CDPR peaked". I don't think we know. CP2077 is just a part of CDPR, and if their plans come to fruition, then it's just a small part. They have other projects in development.

If the question was meant to be "has CP2077 peaked", then I don't think we know that either. The contents of the upcoming DLC seem to be a complete unknown to people outside the organization. It might stink; or it might be great.

If the question was meant to be "will we ever get the promised stuff that isn't yet in the game", then that question and the responses to it are a giant, bottomless hole.
 
Can you elaborate on this improvements? Because from limited comparisons that I've done, the AI is actually worse - at least in terms of reaction to obstacles and perceived threat from player.
Not to mention that population density seems to be lower in Cyberpunk, for some reason.
I wouldn't say the improvements are big/great, but saying that civilian AI in Cyberpunk is worse than in The Witcher 3 is not true, in my opinion.

Registered few minutes ago in White Orchard :
(sorry for the low resolution, HD is process^^)
You can't aim civilian with crossbow, so they don't react at all, even if you shoot right near them.
With your fists or a sword, civilians simply run away a little bit far (few meters) and comeback few seconds later like if nothing happened (funny, the geese react exactly like the civilians, they run away and comeback^^)
I didn't have bombs, so I wasn't able to try, but I suspect that it wouldn't be "better".
(I forgot to try with signs too^^)
And obstacles, well, around 1:06, you can see a woman simply pass through the wooden trough...

Just a guess, it's in Cyberpunk, it's more noticeable because you spent most of time in middle of civilians, even gunfights.
For density, not on my side, it's pretty similar for both, at day time (maybe a little more in Cyberpunk, depending of the neighborhood).
 
With your fists or a sword, civilians simply run away a little bit far (few meters) and comeback few seconds later like if nothing happened

I agree with you that it's better than The Witcher 3, thing is I have to add "now" to this.

Especially the quoted part. At release, you could throw a grenade in a crowd and all that would happen is dozens of survivors would crouch in terror and stay there indefinitely. Or until you did a 360, then they'd disappear into nothingness.

Note that I say this with humor. It was ridiculous but it's been fixed and is far behind us at this point but it's worth remembering.
 
I wouldn't say the improvements are big/great, but saying that civilian AI in Cyberpunk is worse than in The Witcher 3 is not true, in my opinion.

Registered few minutes ago in White Orchard :
(sorry for the low resolution, HD is process^^)
You can't aim civilian with crossbow, so they don't react at all, even if you shoot right near them.
With your fists or a sword, civilians simply run away a little bit far (few meters) and comeback few seconds later like if nothing happened (funny, the geese react exactly like the civilians, they run away and comeback^^)
I didn't have bombs, so I wasn't able to try, but I suspect that it wouldn't be "better".
And obstacles, well, around 1:06, you can see a woman simply pass through the wooden trough...

Just a guess, it's in Cyberpunk, it's more noticeable because you spent most of time in middle of civilians, even gunfights.
For density, not on my side, it's pretty similar for both, at day time (maybe a little more in Cyberpunk, depending of the neighborhood).
I'm impressed that you went through the effort of uploading the gameplay footage, so forgive me for not doing the same with my arguments ;)
What I mean by obstacles are mostly vehicles and, well, player character. In cyberpunk, you can roadblock both pedestrians and drivers alike by leaving the car on their path - they won't be able to move afterward, they'll just stand there and look at it.
In Witcher, they will try to bypass it, provided the opportunity - or will turn around and go into different direction. Of course, they can sometimes just headbutt into Roach until their pathfinding properly kicks in, but hey, it's better than nothing.
Also, I've launched the game and tested it - yes, they do in fact react to bombs.

I don't know whether the difference in density is real or not, I can be wrong and mistaken due to the difference in perspective (first person vs third person) and overall size of respective locations.
 
I'm impressed that you went through the effort of uploading the gameplay footage, so forgive me for not doing the same with my arguments ;)
What I mean by obstacles are mostly vehicles and, well, player character. In cyberpunk, you can roadblock both pedestrians and drivers alike by leaving the car on their path - they won't be able to move afterward, they'll just stand there and look at it.
In Witcher, they will try to bypass it, provided the opportunity - or will turn around and go into different direction. Of course, they can sometimes just headbutt into Roach until their pathfinding properly kicks in, but hey, it's better than nothing.
Also, I've launched the game and tested it - yes, they do in fact react to bombs.

I don't know whether the difference in density is real or not, I can be wrong and mistaken due to the difference in perspective (first person vs third person) and overall size of respective locations.

To be fair, the pathing has largely been fixed by now. It's not what it should be exactly but it's much, much, much better than it was at release.

Y'know, credit where credit is due.
 

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Can you elaborate on this improvements? Because from limited comparisons that I've done, the AI is actually worse - at least in terms of reaction to obstacles and perceived threat from player.
Those are some of the examples where AI has improved - in TW3, NPC AI isn't even aware of Geralt's presence. If you happen to stand in their pre-determined path, they will attempt to walk right through you.
Threat detection is... I don't know.. even less advanced. Often times NPC won't even run away, but just stay in place sheltering themselves with their hands over their heads and scream.
Spawning several NPCs at the same spot happens in certain places. NPCs walking in (really short) circles, too.
Not to mention that population density seems to be lower in Cyberpunk, for some reason.
No idea how is this possible.
I've got both games installed on SSD and pedestrian density maxed out. Cyberpunk is the clear winner.
I don't know what's the situation on consoles.
 
No idea how is this possible.
I've got both games installed on SSD and pedestrian density maxed out. Cyberpunk is the clear winner.
I don't know what's the situation on consoles.

Density is lower on consoles, even on current-gen.

Otherwise, I can only agree, density at max in both games and CP2077 is the clear winner. Doing a 360, there are generally at least 70-100 NPCs around. The Witcher 3 had... maybe 40-50? at most?
 
If you happen to stand in their pre-determined path, they will attempt to walk right through you.
As opposed to Cyberpunk, where they'll just stand there and wait until you leave or move your car?
Often times NPC won't even run away, but just stay in place sheltering themselves with their hands over their heads and scream.
As opposed to Cyberpunk, where they do it in 99,9% of cases?
Spawning several NPCs at the same spot happens in certain places.
It's more of a general bug, not really an AI problem.
NPCs walking in (really short) circles, too.
It happens, true. And in Cyberpunk, they walk in straight lines most of the time.

I'll concede density, because I'm too lazy to boot up both games and count the population, so let's say that Cyberpunk is a winner in that regard.
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To be fair, the pathing has largely been fixed by now. It's not what it should be exactly but it's much, much, much better than it was at release.

Y'know, credit where credit is due.
If that's the case, than I'm glad to be wrong. I was mostly testing such things before 1.5, so if they've fixed this issues, than I'm retracting that.
 
Note that I say this with humor. It was ridiculous but it's been fixed and is far behind us at this point but it's worth remembering.
Indeed and I never say civilian AI was great (the truth, it was pretty bad at release), but at least, not worse than TW3. It's quite similar in my opinion :)
For me, the improvements from TW3 :
In TW3, you will always come across the same civilians in the same places. For example, at the exit of Novigrad, at the edge of the river, in the "dwarves/elven district", there is always a small troop of dwarves which wanders by there, it does not matter at which moment of the game you pass here (and this is just one example, it's true all over the map).
We often talk about "double/triple" NPCs, but in TW3, it's maybe me, but there are "suspicious citizens" everywhere in each road corners...
So in short, there are more civilians, more diversity, "maybe" more "routines" (things they do), but there are not really "smarter" :)
 
As opposed to Cyberpunk, where they'll just stand there and wait until you leave or move your car?

Not entirely true in 1.5. It still happens if you completely block a sidewalk. They rarely walk into the road itself. Though at that point it's just trying to break the AI for the sake of proving a point. It really shouldn't happen during normal gameplay.

As opposed to Cyberpunk, where they do it in 99,9% of cases?

That is definitely fixed in 1.5. They all run. If you threaten them in a car, most will haul ass either with their car or without it. Some will stand there in terror. Which makes sense, not everyone reacts the same way in real life.

If that's the case, than I'm glad to be wrong. I was mostly testing such things before 1.5, so if they've fixed this issues, than I'm retracting that.

To be fair, I will admit I did not count them. It's a guesstimate. I'm pretty sure I'm close to the actual number but unlike most of The Witcher 3's NPCs, CP2077's NPCs all walk great distances and do not stop. It's rather hard getting an accurate number on them but in the most populated area I have absolutely no doubt CP wins this by a large margin. On PC anyway. I know the density is lower on console but I have no idea what TW3's density is on consoles.

Indeed and I never say civilian AI was great (the truth, it was pretty bad at release), but at least, not worse than TW3. It's quite similar in my opinion :)
For me, the improvements from TW3 :
In TW3, you will always come across the same civilians in the same places. For example, at the exit of Novigrad, at the edge of the river, in the "dwarves/elven district", there is always a small troop of dwarves which wanders by there, it does not matter at which moment of the game you pass here (and this is just one example, it's true all over the map).
We often talk about "double/triple" NPCs, but in TW3, it's maybe me, but there are "suspicious citizens" everywhere in each road corners...
So in short, there are more civilians, more diversity, "maybe" more "routines" (things they do), but there are not really "smarter" :)

There is no denying there is more variations of everything in CO2077. It's also pretty normal, I mean, there is 5 years between the two games. There is a clear evolution as is normal. I think that's part of why CP2077's pedestrians were so highly criticized when people realized that, again, at release, they were just barely a notch above TW3's and worse in some respects, like the example I cited above. It's been substantially improved and I don't think the two are really comparable anymore. Just being fair to both games.
 
Not entirely true in 1.5. It still happens if you completely block a sidewalk. They rarely walk into the road itself. Though at that point it's just trying to break the AI for the sake of proving a point. It really shouldn't happen during normal gameplay.
Yeah, I've checked some video on youtube with NPCs reactions from patch 1.5 - and you are definitely correct on all point, they do in fact react differently now than they were during release.
So while it was true previously, now my points are wrong. And in that particular case, i feel pretty good about admitting that.
 
The question was "has CDPR peaked".
You're absolutely right. Don't know why I keep going off topic.

Am of an opinion they have. All the time, really. Especially with Cyberpunk 2077 as it continues to prove an extremely stubborn and difficult game to handle and maintain. Constantly giving new issues in place for the ones that were just remedied. New issues that don't make any sense whatsoever, don't leave any traces or leave you searching for a needle in a haystack.

Can imagine any dev needs to be "peaked" 24/7 to take care of this baby.

Whether or not they'll deliver further fan wanted game assets, remains to be seen. Personally, I think it's the player base's turn to show the Reds some appreciation for a change, and stick a heart or two under their belt for all the work they've done so far, completely free of charge.

Till now it's been nothing but "constructive criticism" being conveyed their way, which, I think, by now is being perceived by them as nothing less than "unrelenting harassment". But that's just me.
 
I appreciate everyone input and comments about this topic!
Though I have to admit, I did word it badly when it comes to "Promises" and so on. I'm not very good at explaining myself sense it always sounds better in my head but then when I try to type it out, it's like "Ehhh..." lol

But either way, everyone makes fair points. Especially with the assumptions of "Promises" and so on.
The only issue is, if I have to constantly think differently than what I'm advertised then really. their just better off not showing anything at all.
It's starting to get Ridiculous that Company advertised these amazing games, explaining how AMAZING, BIG AND IMMERSIVE the world is, only for it to come out short of what was shown.

though, It does come to a problem when people get too overly excited and starts going off rails like "OMG, WILL IT HAVE FLYING CARS?!" and so on lol with that whole Hype Train.
I didn't really have any grandiose ideas and assumptions of what the game could be. I was just eager to play an actually authentic cyberpunk game. and CDPR honestly did a bang up job. out of every game I have played that was "Cyberpunk". CDPR did and absolute amazing job at the world. DAMMNET I love Night City but HATE that the environment is not all that interactable. It's literally eye candy, you can look but don't touch.

Either way I digress.
Again, I appreciate everyone comments. Who knows if CDPR Peaked, OR CP2077 if people want to get that specific. it was just a question that I don't really know the answer too. They still have plenty of work to do with the game, plus with the one Expansion coming. But as Bartinga puts it. Cyberpunk has becomes a very Difficult game to manage and maintain. They do one thing, fucks up another. Thats the trouble when it comes to Updating games. It can be a hell of a Tedious thing.
I blame the engine and how too ambitious they got. They were literally building the game as they were making the engine to work with it. I think to quote the Dev that worked with the game: "We were putting down the Tracks as we were moving the Train. A slow and Tedious process."

Still, I look forward to coming back to Cyberpunk 2077. Especially after their previous big update. But I kind of want to wait longer to see what else happens.
 
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i doubt they have peaked and possibly witcher 4 will be better then all there other games. Im more concerned with them moving in the wrong (for me) direction towards less RPG mechanics/replayablity and so on and become another studio making pretty much the same games as everybody else does. Ill reserve judgement untill i see what they do and how the games are but i have a fairly strong feeling im probably not going too get the expansion at release and probably wait a while with witcher 4 whenever that comes out unless it seems like the best game ever for me.
 
I doubt they've "Peaked" I could be wrong, but I feel like CDPR has some very talented and dedicated developers and they still have a lot of good content to put out.

They're not the first well respected Dev team to have a bad launch, and unlike some others the game did get fixed and is considered by many to actually be a good game now (Yes it should have launched good). But look at how many games in a "Great series" had a dud in the middle somewhere but other games in the same series came along and we're better than ever. I know it's a massively different game but look at Sonic, there's like 100 of them and the quality range from title to title is huge but for every crappy sonic game there are a handful of good ones and even a few great ones.

Point is 1 bad release that has since been fixed and mostly accepted warmly by fans, does not mean they've peaked or are on a decline or anything like that, Now I plan on getting the CP2077 expansion pretty much day 1, and if that goes well, I'll probably get the Witcher 4 at launch too. I'm very curious as to what their new IPs they are working on could be, but I'll reserve judgment on that until I see what they are. If one or more of those things goes badly sure maybe we can start saying they've peaked, or they're done or they're moving in the wrong direction, but personally I think it's a little early for that right now.
 
Does it really matter if CP or W pedestrian Ai is better IF both are flat compared to other games?

Ai in both games are not up to date and surely not groundbreaking.
 
Does it really matter if CP or W pedestrian Ai is better IF both are flat compared to other games?

Ai in both games are not up to date and surely not groundbreaking.

I'd argue that it does, to a certain point anyway.

Other games might do pedestrian AI better but you also have to look at everything else both games do for a fair comparison. You can't just straight up compare pedestrian system X to pedestrian system Y without looking at everything else. Every PC and console has a finite amount of resources, it's a balancing act, and I feel like it's obvious that was a big challenge with CP2077.

As long as there is a clear evolution within their own games, I don't mind if certain of CDPR's systems aren't the best. There are things they are incredible at and where other studios can't compete with. Ultimately, no studio can boast being the best at everything and I don't expect CDPR to try to reach that point. That would be completely unreasonable expectations on my part.

I'd say the evolution between TW3's pedestrian and CP2077's is very clear - at this point in time.
 
You really shouldn't say "everyone" with statements like these.

I saw that and assumed there would be some form of racing but I definitely didn't expect street racing to be part of the game in any significant way. It ain't GTA or NFS. It never was meant to be that kind of game. Some form of racing is in-game. No disappointment there as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not saying the marketing campaign was perfect. There is an argument to be made about a significant portion of your clients wrongly believing your game is going to be something it never was meant to be, as indicative that your marketing campaign is sending the wrong message. If you followed development, it was clear the kind of game this was meant to be but most people don't follow development.
Marketing isn't just about posting straight up, dry information: it's about creating impressions.
It's hypocritical from CDPR to now complain: "Oh, but there was simply too much hype and people expected too much from the game", while they were more than happy to hype the game for preorders and blind, day-1 purchases.
Think about how many really good games ended up a complete commercial failure and shutting down their studios, simply because there was too little hype about them, and through no fault of it's developers.
If your game has massive interest as Cyberpunk had, then it's very important to give a clear, concise presentation of what game is about, what features players can expect.
There are plenty of misleading statements coming from "journalists" and were people overhyped some aspects of the game on their own. But same is true for CDPR.
- New generation of open world gaming ... this is objectively not true, by measurable technical standards ( interactivity, variety and quantity of content, physics, animations, simulation systems, implementation of mechanics, are all far below many open world games).
- New standard for roleplaying games..the game is barely even considered rpg, by most people, if at all.
- Cyberpunk will refresh the genre, and bring punk into Cyberpunk
..also not true. Punk element is barely present, compared to urban mercenary role.
- Misleading presentation through trailers. It's similar to MGSV that appeared with trailers that overemphasized narrative than what the game actually had.
Why make a specific trailer for Lifepaths or Gangs if they are such an undeveloped, basic feature of the game? Knowing how high expectations of public are, you are intentionally presenting them to be more than what they are. Same is with Pickup mission ( a stand out mission in terms of roleplaying) or simulation features.
In comparison, release day trailer that exclusively showcased characters was far more accurate, highlighting emotional stories of main characters that is the core of the game's narrative.
Witcher in comparison had a much more direct, better, honest marketing ( aside from visual downgrade). Trailers simply showed what the game is about: story driven action adventure with some rpg elements, cinematic storytelling, characters, combat.
 
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