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Hattori could use a buff

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Cabowse

Junior Member
#1
Hattori could use a buff

Like most I am thrilled that Scoia finally have a unit that can resurrect, however I feel that in comparison to Sigdrifa he definitely falls short a bit as you need to buff him first to actually resurrect whoever you want.

Now we know that Skellige is all about those resurrections so you would think that it makes sense that Sigdrifa has an advantage, but at the same time Skellige's units are made to carry over strength gained from past rounds, where Scoia units don't so much. (So I feel that Hattori is at a double disadvantage)

My suggestion is that Hattori gives the unit armour also based on his current strength, this makes sense as he is an armour/weaponsmith after all and would allow you extra value if you use it properly, but isn't going to result in any crazy swings.
 

4RM3D

Moderator
#2
Cabowse;n9801381 said:
My suggestion is that Hattori gives the unit armour also based on his current strength, this makes sense as he is an armour/weaponsmith after all and would allow you extra value if you use it properly, but isn't going to result in any crazy swings.
Lore-wise, it's an interesting suggestion; gameplay-wise, I don't think he needs a buff. Using him on Barclay Els or Dwarven Agitator already provides good value.
 

Cabowse

Junior Member
#3
4RM3D;n9801411 said:
Lore-wise, it's an interesting suggestion; gameplay-wise, I don't think he needs a buff. Using him on Barclay Els or Dwarven Agitator already provides good value.
Aye, I've been using him in a elf deck so the most I get to res straight off the bat is an Elven Wardancer or Ida.
 

devivre

Moderator
#5
From my point of view he doesn't need a buff. Even if you don't have any cards that buff units in hand...
ST in general has enough targets in the 3 points area and if more is needed, there's nothing wrong with adding a few units to buff it.

Not sure an armor addition is the best way to go. Should armor NR become strong again at some point, an heavily armored unit might do more harm than help :D

However for Hattori in general I'd prefer to see a different ability (even though I like how his card works).
Lorewise I'm not convinced it really matches the character. But that's a different story :D
 

gem4ik

User
#6
A logical way to improve Hattori without changing numbers

Hello!
My suggestion is to change Hattori to such an effect:
"Choose a minion on graveyard with power equal or less to Hattori and play it's copy on board"
Why?
Because its makes it possible to Hattori be playble in Ambush decks. So, if your opponent not gonna see what minion you are choosing from a graveyard, you could be able to ressurect some Ambush units.

Example: You are have a 7-power Hattori in hand and Toruviel and Morenn both on a graveyard. You could ressurect one of them and trick your opponent into some kind of a mindgame.
 

byExeplar

Junior Member
#7
gem4ik;n9802071 said:
Hello!
My suggestion is to change Hattori to such an effect:
"Choose a minion unit in graveyard with power equal or less to Hattori and play it's a copy of it on the board"
Why?
Because its makes it will make Hattori be playable in Ambush decks. So, if your opponent not don't see gonna see what minion unit you are choosing from a your graveyard, then you could be able to resurrecting some Ambush units.

Example: You have a 7-power Hattori in hand and Toruviel and Morenn both in your graveyard. You could resurrect one of them and trick your opponent into some kind of a mind-game.
I like this change! Got a Thumbs up from me, though, I'm not too sure about the tricking part but maybe could work. :)

Note: You will find corrections made highlighted in Purple.

Regards,
byExeplar

:yes:
 
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devivre

Moderator
#8
gem4ik;n9802071 said:
Hello!
My suggestion is to change Hattori to such an effect:
"Choose a minion on graveyard with power equal or less to Hattori and play it's copy on board"
Why?
Because its makes it possible to Hattori be playble in Ambush decks. So, if your opponent not gonna see what minion you are choosing from a graveyard, you could be able to ressurect some Ambush units.

Example: You are have a 7-power Hattori in hand and Toruviel and Morenn both on a graveyard. You could ressurect one of them and trick your opponent into some kind of a mindgame.
It's an interesting suggestion but Hattori would need to be doomed and stubborn in that case, otherwise it would be too easy to just decoy this card and copy the same unit again (and then use for example Eithne to play another copy... and if you are lucky and your opponent used Decoy as well, you can play Aglaise to get another one... I'm not so keen on playing against three Toruviel's ;) ).

And there's a reason why CDPR changed Operator so this card only works with bronze cards (in closed beta he copied silver cards as well... which is not far away from this suggestion here).
 

gem4ik

User
#9
devivre;n9802291 said:
It's an interesting suggestion but Hattori would need to be doomed and stubborn in that case, otherwise it would be too easy to just decoy this card and copy the same unit again (and then use for example Eithne to play another copy... and if you are lucky and your opponent used Decoy as well, you can play Aglaise to get another one... I'm not so keen on playing against three Toruviel's ;) ).

And there's a reason why CDPR changed Operator so this card only works with bronze cards (in closed beta he copied silver cards as well... which is not far away from this suggestion here).
Well it sounds cool, but hard to perform and not that really strong. You should have Toruviel in your graveyard, you have to get 6-power Hattori, get a decoy in hand, get 4 units on same row, lose a lot of power by playig it (lose power from Hattori you got before). And still, it doesnt match current NR 27-power plays. Since ST is the weakest faction in this patch, it could use such strategy too.
 

devivre

Moderator
#10
gem4ik;n9802501 said:
Well it sounds cool, but hard to perform and not that really strong. You should have Toruviel in your graveyard, you have to get 6-power Hattori, get a decoy in hand, get 4 units on same row, lose a lot of power by playig it (lose power from Hattori you got before). And still, it doesnt match current NR 27-power plays. Since ST is the weakest faction in this patch, it could use such strategy too.
Decoy buffs the decoyed unit +3 which gets Hattori exactly in Toruviel range. So it would be pretty easy to achieve.
 

gem4ik

User
#11
devivre;n9802561 said:
Decoy buffs the decoyed unit +3 which gets Hattori exactly in Toruviel range. So it would be pretty easy to achieve.
Yeah, i know. I mean, you buff Hattori to 6 (3 additional power), and you lose this buff by playing Decoy. So, to commit this play you have to make a weak turn before that (like, make super weak 6-power tempo play to buff Hattori from 3 to 6).
 

devivre

Moderator
#12
gem4ik;n9802641 said:
Yeah, i know. I mean, you buff Hattori to 6 (3 additional power), and you lose this buff by playing Decoy. So, to commit this play you have to make a weak turn before that (like, make super weak 6-power tempo play to buff Hattori from 3 to 6).
If you do that to copy another silver card it can definitely be worth it and it's not a bad tempo play.
The value of Hattori is not his strength but his ability to draw other cards.
 

Exoclyps

Junior Member
#13
Of course he needs a buff, that's the whole point of the card, duh! So just buff him and he'll be god!
 

Cabowse

Junior Member
#14
Exoclyps;n9806871 said:
Of course he needs a buff, that's the whole point of the card, duh! So just buff him and he'll be god!
Really you are just transferring value from other cards to him, you shouldn't need to buff a card for it to be inherently useful.

The point I made above is that he's basically the same as Sigrdrifa, but with extra limitations, which doesn't really make sense.
 

Exoclyps

Junior Member
#15
It's still fairly useful, even without the buff. In the right deck that is.

Thing is though, he got to be different, and also have some limitations. Some cards are not meant to be rez'd, so if he can do them easily it can cause unforseen issues.

With the current setup needed it is easier to predict what he'll be able to bring back, and if by chance someone finds some broken targets to bring back, the setup needed balances that out.

NR got a resurrection that is a gold, while SK get it as a silver. But you as a result, all their silvers need to be balanced around that.
 

Cabowse

Junior Member
#18
Exoclyps;n9828141 said:
It's still fairly useful, even without the buff. In the right deck that is.

Thing is though, he got to be different, and also have some limitations. Some cards are not meant to be rez'd, so if he can do them easily it can cause unforseen issues.

With the current setup needed it is easier to predict what he'll be able to bring back, and if by chance someone finds some broken targets to bring back, the setup needed balances that out.

NR got a resurrection that is a gold, while SK get it as a silver. But you as a result, all their silvers need to be balanced around that.
I think he should stay as he is but with another unique effect, I don't really want him to be the same as Sigrdrifa, I just want him to compete.

 

Cabowse

Junior Member
#19
Here are a few potential ideas for what his ability could be please feel free to vote for your favourite:

(1) Every 2 turns at the start of your turn give allies adjacent to this unit 2 armor.
Deploy: Resurrect a Bronze or Silver Scoia'tael Unit with Power less than or equal to this Unit's.

(2) Deploy: Resurrect a Bronze or Silver Scoia'tael Unit with Power less than or equal to this Unit's and give it 3 armor.

(3) Whenever an ally adjacent to this unit is damaged give that unit 2 armour.
Deploy: Resurrect a Bronze or Silver Scoia'tael Unit with Power less than or equal to this Unit's.

(4) Deploy: Boost a unit in your hand by this unit's total power.

​​​​​​​
 

ResoundingBuahaha

Junior Member
#20
I think it's not Hatori need a buff but Sigdrifa & Freya need a nerf. Being able to play your key silver/bronze again is such a good effect you don't even care spending a gold slot on that. Hatori's limitation, while harsh but not impossible to work around in hand buff, and the silver he can target are usually worth the effort. What's lacking here is more reliable hand buff tool rather than the card itself. (But I also can see the reason buffing Hatori itself, he kinda deserve a 1-2 pt buff)