Health: regen or stimpack?

[kilravok]

I am completely against health bars.

Sure, people regenerate injured tissue, but it takes weeks without treatment and days with treatment.
There are drugs and med packs that can keep you alive long enough for medics to patch you up, but they won't heal you. They might be able to surpress the pain so that you can still move and stay conscious, but they can't re-attach that limb you just lost.
No drugs will ever repair your damaged metal, no toolkit will fix your meat (except maybe a seamstress pouch), the only way to actually heal, as in getting back to norm, happens only with medical care.

There needs to be a well refined and detailed hit location system. The damage system needs to be able to differentiate between damaged meat and damaged chrome. It needs to take into account what kind of chrome and bioware you have. A shot to the heart is irrelevant if your heart is not where it should be but rather spread over four locations (Decentralized Heart bioware augmentation). If your arm gets hit, The doctor will be able to heal over time the tissue damage, but for the damaged metal you still need to see a techie. If you have several options and systems in that leg, the combat/damage system needs to know what system has been damaged and if it is something that can explode (like your clip pouch with the XXPlosive and the Incinerate ammo).

And you will not be able to know how damaged you are except by looking at your toon and seeing the damage or noticing how you can't use several parts of your body the way you should. Or of course, if you have a bio monitor.
Nano Surgeons can speed up your healing, maybe even stabilize you to prevent you from going from critical to dead. Immunity boosters can counteract viruses and maybe poisons and prevent infections, but not heal injuries. Air filter implants make you more resistant to gases and aerosol transmitted diseases but they don't heal anything. Chrome can not heal you, most chrome won't even allow you to take more damage before you kick it, but it can well reduce the damage you have to take.


Who said netrunners don't need? And why would it be sink or swimm for them?
Netrunners have their body in the real world. A shot to the shoulder hurts them as well, even if they don't even notice until they log out. And netrunners need mental regeneration and protection, which is gained in form of software and chips on their decks...a feedback buffer wouldn't hurt either (Black ICE might fry your deck, but not your brain), nor an emergency jack-out protocol (it really gives a nasty headache when some ICE kicks you out or someone pulls your plug). As for net combat, a runner's online combat capabilities are based on his mental stats, instead of chrome, he has programs, but the combat is just as lethal as in meatspace.

 

[Sardukhar]

You only need instant healing in a video game if you are sloppy and think you ar Wolverine. I call that "Newb" difficulty.

Not that I don't die in ARMA or DEHR on GMDE difficulty, or Witcher on Dark, but it's not so hard once you get over the urge to charge superior numbers. With your face.

Diff 1: easy combat, can take at least 3 to 1 odds, regen health.

Diff 2: moderate combat, probably take 2 to 1 odds, stim pack.

Diff 3: Serious combat, 1:1 doable, 2:1 if good, 3:1 if really good, no regen, no stims.

Diff 4: Same as 3, only with one savegame slot. "Blackhand" difficulty.

 

[ChaosWolf1982]

Diff 1: easy combat, can take at least 3 to 1 odds, regen health.

Diff 2: moderate combat, probably take 2 to 1 odds, stim pack.

Diff 3: Serious combat, 1:1 doable, 2:1 if good, 3:1 if really good, no regen, no stims.

Diff 4: Same as 3, only with one savegame slot. "Blackhand" difficulty.

I like this idea. It's a nice "compromise" between all the various healing options mentioned so far.

 

[sympathy4saren]

I say no to health regen, unless its small and part of an Aug effect.

I have no experience with Cyberpunk 2020. But a lot can happen in 57 years.

What would be a big doozy is if you dropped and lost all of your currency when you died.

 

[Sardukhar]

Yeah..I really should add this to the FAQ. DESPITE the timeline update, the tech seems to be FROM ALL WE'VE SEEN, nearly identical to 2020 tech. Cyber, weapons, vehicles you name it. Everything in that trailer is IN CP2020, except the assault rifles, which, being cased, look like a step backwards, not forwards.

So bet on CP2020 tech, plus a bit more lazorz.

 

[ChaosWolf1982]

Yeah..I really should add this to the FAQ. DESPITE the timeline update, the tech seems to be FROM ALL WE'VE SEEN, nearly identical to 2020 tech. Cyber, weapons, vehicles you name it. Everything in that trailer is IN CP2020, except the assault rifles, which, being cased, look like a step backwards, not forwards.

So bet on CP2020 tech, plus a bit more lazorz.

Agreed. all info seems to be pointing to 2077 being more of a number used to distance the game to be further off than les--than-a-decade, rather than actually indicating it's fifty-plus years away.

 

[cabbagehead]

Agreed. all info seems to be pointing to 2077 being more of a number used to distance the game to be further off than les--than-a-decade, rather than actually indicating it's fifty-plus years away.

My view

1. maybe it reflects the state of high tech weaponry in police department hands at any given quick respond situation, specifically with having to deal with augmented phys that could crush you (Because they sure were prey and spraying) in Night City?


2. It's maybe going to change as the game shapes up over two year (It's a benchmark trailer anyways and concept always changes) or maybe different departments have better tools and we were seeing a rookie squad or ill prepared unit.


But then again you could be right its just a title and year that does not always indicate how levels of technological advancements appear in that time period and with it being in the gritty, cold, wet, unforgiving cyberpunk universe,

it's even more so the case

 

[ChaosWolf1982]

But then again you could be right its just a title and year that does not always indicate how levels of technological advancements appear in that time period and with it being in the gritty, cold, wet, unforgiving cyberpunk universe, it's even more so the case

I'm pretty sure. I mean, Cyberpunk 2020's main storylines actually more-or-less began in 2013.

Which reminds me, where's my freaking cyberware already?

 

[Sardukhar]

There's a forum topic about real cyberware NOW. It's out there, oh yes.

http://www.designboom.com/tag/prosthesis/

 

[cabbagehead]

Something a little off topic but tit's in the same realm npc/enemy health...

Please avoid


The floating npc health bars (Syndrome) plz do something more visual reasonable ,work in some allocated damage system an more positional death animation for the npc.Because nothing makes me cringe more is watching a bunch of semi floating health bars waste away on screen as you try kill your enemy in combat, it just seems kind of dated to me though it is a classic reminder of your enemies health it's.... ^^^


(It was the only thing that kept me from playing Witcher ten more times)

 

[killerjv]

Makes perfect sense.

Don't want dev's to read long essays

 

[killerjv]

You only need instant healing in a video game if you are sloppy and think you ar Wolverine. I call that "Newb" difficulty.

Not that I don't die in ARMA or DEHR on GMDE difficulty, or Witcher on Dark, but it's not so hard once you get over the urge to charge superior numbers. With your face.

Diff 1: easy combat, can take at least 3 to 1 odds, regen health.

Diff 2: moderate combat, probably take 2 to 1 odds, stim pack.

Diff 3: Serious combat, 1:1 doable, 2:1 if good, 3:1 if really good, no regen, no stims.

Diff 4: Same as 3, only with one savegame slot. "Blackhand" difficulty.

Short, Simple, sweet and makes sense. Thumbs UP

 

[Don_Carnage]

I don't want healthpacks like most games have.
I'd like the uber-slow regeneration that the tabletop had, along with optional cyberware upgrades.

Any 'stim-packs' that a character finds should be more like Trauma-Team and black-market drugs, and have costs/ side-effects accordingly.

 

[FoggyFishburne]

Health regen and ONLY if you have cyberware for it. Like an exo-skull with nanomachines to fix some of the damage.

If you are going to battle in Night City without the proper gear and cyberware, you deserve to die.

Also, I would REALLY like to see the Trauma Team contract in the game. Like in the PnP, it would be expensive with a summon of an AV vehicle to treat your character and bring him to a hospital. Expendable, of course (you would have to pay a lot again to renew the contract).

Yeah that's a great idea. I feel like you've ended the thread. What more can I add :S

But yeah, everything in the game should have something to do with augmentations. Whether it's health regen, HUD, sprint option, all of that should be closely tied to cyber upgrades. I think that'd really reinforce the narrative, where cyber augmentations boost your performances but do it too much and you lose your mind. This way people can customize their build and specs and grow their own character and subsequently define their own playstyle as well.

Example, I'm not too big on open encounters with the enemy: I prefer stealth. So health regen and sprint might be a little redundant for me, as I'm not focusing on movement speed and survival ability.

I think that'd work really well, not only within the context of the game, but as RPG levelling upgrades and combat mechanics.

 

[kilravok]

Solos who don't actually know what being a Solo is about and rather think they are big bully tanks would scream to get health packs and instant regen, but one of the main skills of a Solo's success and survival is not being some uber-warior who can take on a hundred enemies (who all have access to the same augmentations and skills) but being someone who knows when and how to fight and when it is better to lay low and wait.
In every war in every battle, 60% of the victory is tactics and 30% supplies, only 10% is strength, arms and skill.

Trauma Team needs to be there. Even if only for this kind of scenario
In that one group of runners I played in, there was a Solo who kept screwing up all our plans and effort by just "going in guns ablaze". When the GM got tired of that he gave us a contract to get a data disk from some corporate bigwig. We planned on taking him armored car down on route with a good snipe. Sniper Solo was already in position, the CQC Solo was to stand buy and take out the guards as they crawl out of the crippled vehicle, the hacker was watching the emergency channels and manipulating CCTV feeds and so on.
The Corporate comes round the corner, Sniper announces clear view on the car's motor block and....the CQC fires a one-shot portable rocket launcher under the chassis of the car. Car goes flying a few times around it's own Z axis and crashes upside down. The CQC drops his launcher and goes in, two machine guns, one in each cyber arm. All the others of the team curse him and go in hiding, that Car was supposed to have at least three highly augmented and highly skilled bodyguards. Our CQC mannaged to take the first guard out and started crippling the second as he suddenly took fire from behind....HV armor piercing and HV X-plosive rounds...a lot of them.....He mannaged to turn around before he went down and saw six military grade FBC with heavy mini-Gatling and high speed rail-guns and additional to their titanium bodies, they had full military Kevlar suits...all with the logo of Trauma Team painted on them, behind them a heavy anti-grav tank with cow catcher (ram plow) and a gun turret from which medics with trauma equipment and stretcher emerged....
THAT is what we need Trauma Team for.....for all those tanks who want rapid-regen and instant-heal Med-packs.

For those who want to know how the scene ended:
As the corporate was carried to the med tank, our sniper took a shot and exploded his head, the medics ran for cover, the fighters looked for attackers and calmed down (sniper rifles with satelite supported aim are awesome on range). The medics checked their file, found that the customer did have a contract clause specifying that he is NOT a organ doner. head gone, nothing to save, the dumped the meat and took off. Once they were gone, the sniper gave a few warning shots to the remaining guards and we walked over to take the data disk...the corp and our CQC friend got sold to a body bank.

 

[Cyber_Death]

Maybe the difficulty should be a deciding factor. Easier difficulty leads to regen-health, while on the contrary, harder difficulty results in having to rely solely on stimpacks or other means to regain back your character's health.

 

[Sardukhar]

Maybe the difficulty should be a deciding factor. Easier difficulty leads to regen-health, while on the contrary, harder difficulty results in having to rely solely on stimpacks or other means to regain back your character's health.

WHAT A CRAZY IDEA. I WISH WE'D THOUGHT OF THAT.

Mutter.

 

[Cyber_Death]

WHAT A CRAZY IDEA. I WISH WE'D THOUGHT OF THAT.

Mutter.

There's many great suggestions honestly, I'd thought someone probably already suggested something similar to what I said.

 

[kilravok]

OK, I can accept a difficulty level option for those who need to tank, as long as it is an option and I still can go straight into Impossible mode.

 

[Sardukhar]

I like one-save-game for your whole playthrough, on Impossible. Not as unforgiving as Ironman, which as blank-redge I think pointed out I could replicate by just deleting my save, but one save game for your whole playthrough makes your decisions have weight.

A friend of mine played DEHR that way and I have to say, I think he had more fun than I did. Also more cursing, heh.