Health: regen or stimpack?

[Sardukhar]

Yep, and just how many players would go nearly full borg during character creation then complain LOUDLY when they find out cyber-psychosis isn't just a fancy word for "unstoppable killing machine"?

God, the humour.

"Warning: your humanity loss is nearing 100%."

"Warning: Your humanity loss has exceeded 100%"

"Warning: Cyberpsychosis imminent."

"Meh, sounds cool. <Click accept.>

WELCOME TO NIGHT CITY.


"Raaaaaahh! DIE FLESHY MEAT BAGS!"

<BANG>

"C-SWAT to HQ. One borg crazy down."

"What? NO!"

 

[Suhiira]

I like it !

But let's face it without a GM to warn them, and we all know how much attention most folks pay to a games rulebook (electronic tho it may be these days), it's gonna happen a lot. Simply because many folks could care less about the RP aspects of a game and will concentrate on becoming the baddest-ass killing machine with the biggest gun possible.

 

[Sardukhar]

I like it !

But let's face it without a GM to warn them, and we all know how much attention most folks pay to a games rulebook (electronic tho it may be these days), it's gonna happen a lot. Simply because many folks could care less about the RP aspects of a game and will concentrate on becoming the baddest-ass killing machine with the biggest gun possible.

So true. So true.

Perhaps a built-in Empathy Cost limiter at start? Sayy..no lower than 3 Emp? You can go lower later, but teh rationale is that you'd never have been let out of hospital/corp rebuild center with any lower.

 

[Suhiira]

So true. So true.

Perhaps a built-in Empathy Cost limiter at start? Sayy..no lower than 3 Emp? You can go lower later, but teh rationale is that you'd never have been let out of hospital/corp rebuild center with any lower.

That works!
Rather then 3 minimum I'd say 1/2 your starting empathy.
Of course if you decide to skimp on empathy because it's a "waste stat" you won't be able to have many augmentations before you lose it, but hey I guess it's not a "waste stat" after all if being a borg is your goal.

 

[Sardukhar]

That works!
Rather then 3 minimum I'd say 1/2 your starting empathy.
Of course if you decide to skimp on empathy because it's a "waste stat" you won't be able to have many augmentations before you lose it, but hey I guess it's not a "waste stat" after all if being a borg is your goal.

Ah, yes, the fundamental weirdness of Cyberpunk - the more empathic you are, the more you can borg. Well, the luck of the HL dice and European treatments/ high-end corporate optimizing notwithstanding of course.

Some people complain, but I've always liked the idea that only the truly empathic can become the most like machines.

Very cyberpunk.

 

[Suhiira]

Remember the whole point of cyber-psychosis is the loss of "humanity" because of the replacement of meat with chrome.
The original Robocop did a pretty good job of it. Murphy was a very family oriented, church going, do what's right, look out for your mates type of guy ... high empathy. The murderers, pushers, and generally half psycho to start with guys they tried to turn into borgs just couldn't handle it due to the lack of empathy for their fellow man to start with.
So I don't see it at all "wierd" that high empathy allows more augmentation.

 

[Harthwain]

Keep in mind that we don't know what kind of time system the game will be supposed to have. I mean, it doesn't have to be full real time in-game, so the wounds can heal faster to us, because the in-game system counts hours and days faster. In Skyrim time was passing much faster and you always could speed it up by forcing yourself to wait some time. It can be a nice compromise for those who don't want to walk around in very bad shape or waste money - if they even have it - on special help. It can be even tied to your difficulty choice too.

 

[Sardukhar]

Keep in mind that we don't know what kind of time system the game will be supposed to have.

Mmm. This will determine so much. Sue talked about skill deterioration, we've covered some stuff about pay...and now healing.

If it takes place over a month, sure, doable. if it's a day, I say absolutely no fast heal OUTSIDE medical intervention, except on Casual difficulty.

Otherwise, people will be hiding behind cover waiting for their Wolverine heal to kick in.

Well..hmm. I wouldn't mind seeing Wolverine Heal with serious nanotech, I suppose.

Other than that, I'd like to see Speedheal and cyberware stabilize you, or stop blood loss or heal you for some small amount and no more.

 

[Suhiira]

If they pay any attention at all to CP2020 healing rates the game will have to cover weeks if not months because every time you get a new piece of cyberware you're gonna be out of action for a few days at least. You can't just trade in your meat arm for a cyber one with a built-in minigun in the morning and go out that afternoon and butcher people with it.

That said, there will almost certainly be a "speed up time passing" option because no one wants to have to play a character laying in bed watching TV and twiddling their thumbs as they recover from an injury or surgery.

 

[Lolssi83.811]

That said, there will almost certainly be a "speed up time passing" option because no one wants to have to play a character laying in bed watching TV and twiddling their thumbs as they recover from an injury or surgery.

I'd like to see you fail some time sensitive missions while recovering. Not fan at all of missions where you have clock ticking, but more like you have 5 days to complete this mission and if you get injured well...

 

[Harthwain]

I'd like to see you fail some time sensitive missions while recovering. Not fan at all of missions where you have clock ticking, but more like you have 5 days to complete this mission and if you get injured well...

I think missions like PayDay 2 might fit in - you have limited time and they'll go away until you accept terms. Then can go back, of course, but you'll have to wait some time to catch them again. It allows for some flexibility while not always letting you do "this mission" you might want in your current situation. I'd like to see character being driven on missions in order to get funds for "living" - ammo, meds, drugs, that kind of stuff. If you're injured on a mission then you spend some amount to see a doctor who helps you to heal up quicker (in a hospital?) and need to be careful, because the amount you spend on ammo, meds and drugs would be the amount that'll be eventually deducted from your payment. And there is always a question of having money for upgrades (weapons, augs, etc.), so you won't get too much money too quick. If you combine all this there would be an extra incentive to stay safe and sound.

 

[Lolssi83.811]

I think missions like PayDay 2 might fit in - you have limited time and they'll go away until you accept terms. Then can go back, of course, but you'll have to wait some time to catch them again. It allows for some flexibility while not always letting you do "this mission" you might want in your current situation. I'd like to see character being driven on missions in order to get funds for "living" - ammo, meds, drugs, that kind of stuff. If you're injured on a mission then you spend some amount to see a doctor who helps you to heal up quicker (in a hospital?) and need to be careful, because the amount you spend on ammo, meds and drugs would be the amount that'll be eventually deducted from your payment. And there is always a question of having money for upgrades (weapons, augs, etc.), so you won't get too much money too quick. If you combine all this there would be an extra incentive to stay safe and sound.

Don't really have interest to see repeatable missions. Rather well written unique ones.
But I liked the idea getting stuff deducted from pay. You could add mission planning phase meaning extra man power, blueprints, alternate entrances, passwords and other intel that would be deducted from you payment.
Deducted works better than paying yourself especially in the beginning of the game when money is short.

 

[Harthwain]

Here is the question - if you take [part of] payment in advance, spend it and still won't [manage to] accomplish the mission*? Will you be able to be in debt? What are the consequences? There should be some. Otherwise you shouldn't get paid before the task is done and not getting money would be punishment enough as you'll still have to buy other necessities (i.e.: spend money, or steal, or take a loan, etc) to get goods (health included) that'll allow you to carry on (on top of what you paid lost for preparing the action in the first place). I think ability to get some cold, hard cash before you get a reputation enough to be able to ask payment in advance is a must (or should be for those who aren't convincing enough) and opens interesting possibilities. I remember taking loans in Crusader Kings 2 or Europa Universalis 4 to pay off my long war or to start business as merchant in Space Rangers 2.

*It's pretty much the same as deducting money from payment, only better simpler, because payday happens when you're done with the mission and if you fail you don't get what was required to get paid, so there is no money to be deducted to pay for the cost of preparations, etc. and you're missing the rest of the payment, so you're basically "in debt". In this case it's not even deducting money from payment - as there is no payment - it's more like taking a loan you didn't want to take (as you wanted to accomplish the mission).

 

[Lolssi83.811]

I like consequences. Yes let's have some of those.
Would be cool if you'd end up being in debt and deadline drawing close, you would become more and more desperate to get the money in any way you can.

 

[A T Ś]

I do not know how Devs are going to implement braindancing mechanics into the game but I believe there should be an option of some kind of a sleep mode during which you:

1. regenrate, obviously(different means like nanobots,conventional medicines etc.)
2. have different options like
2.1 lucid dreams
2.2 brain dancing(these two are not the same, right?)
2.3 play a conventional movie
2.4 upload some knowledge datainto your system you bought somewhere

 

[Maelcom404]

Brain dance is like going to the theater to look at a movie, except it plays in your head (like in the movie strange days), no interaction or whatever, and you have to be awake to experience it.
On the opposite, Bran Dance turns people crazy if they use it too much.

But yeah, sleeping should be used as a way to regenerate.

 

[Maelcom404]

Here is the question - if you take [part of] payment in advance, spend it and still won't [manage to] accomplish the mission*? Will you be able to be in debt? What are the consequences? There should be some.

According to my experience as a GM, your life will become hell, your place will be filled with traps (look under your couch for mines), you'll be harassed by solos and hitman all the time, you'll have the reputation of a thief so no one will want to hire you, etc...
Well, you'll look like a jerk for everyone.

 

[Suhiira]

Here is the question - if you take [part of] payment in advance ...

Giving players (as opposed to characters) "credit" or pre-payment is a bad idea.
While debt collectors (in the form of a couple Solos with a bad attitude) can be sent after a character most players merely view this as another combat/loot opportunity thus it's in their best interests NOT to maintain decent credit rating/reputation.

So no ... I VERY firmly believe in "pay as you go".

 

[Harthwain]

I think you're reading this incorrectly. If combat is as deadly as they say then it's detrimental for your health to have loan sharks on your back while walking the street as you can be targeted by debt collectors and if you die... you die.

 

[Suhiira]

I hope having armed debt collectors after you IS likely to lead to "you're dead - restart the game".
But at the same time I'm trying to keep the way people tend to play games in mind.
And I can already hear the crowds roaring in outrage because the game "unfairly" "punished" them by sending collection team after collection team after them to the point they died because of something as "stupid" and "unrealistic" as not repaying a debt.
Good design strategy to just not open your game to such problems in the first place by not allowing debt or pre-payment.