High heels vs character-believability and respect

+
High heels vs character-believability and respect

I'm going to try to phrase this as much in the vein of constructive criticism as I can, because I don't want to sound like I'm shitting all over CDPR.
I do in fact have a great deal of respect for CDPR, which is also the reason I'm going to bother writing this in the first place, I wouldn't bother if I
didn't think you would at least take the time to read it, and hopefully to act upon it.

Character-believability and respectful, non-exploitative representation of characters is of course immensely important in a game like The Witcher 3.
As it has been explained by two separate developers, in different interviews already, the character designers spent a lot of time tweaking the designs of each character in a way that makes them believable, and doesn't just try to make something look cool. And I quote: "Geralt needs to be able to kill monsters effectively" and "This isn't a fashion contest!"
Now while this is thankfully the case with Geralt and the other male witchers in the franchise, I find it extremely disrespectful to the character, that Ciri wasn't afforded this consideration. And judging by the nature of this oversight in believability and practicality it is simply because she is a woman, which apparently means that sex-appeal trumps believability and lore-accuracy, even when this character isn't, or at least shouldn't be romanceable.

Whether you consider Ciri to be a witcher or not, makes no difference. She is a swordfighter, and a bloody good one at that. Her fighting-style is the same as the witchers use, and I am flabbergasted (as our friend Johnny would say) that the very talented people designing the characters for TW3 decided to give her high heeled boots!

It should be abundantly clear to anyone who has ever used their legs for more than simply walking, that high heels are just the worst type of footwear imaginable.
Frankly, anything that impedes ones ability to function as a normal, healthy human being, is a terrible idea for someone who's life has revolved around fighting and training for fighting since the age of 11 to wear.

High heels have one single purpose in normal life, and that is to manipulate a woman's posture into an exaggerated state, that is meant to be sexually appealing. Basically: Tits forward, ass backwards, arched back, while simultaneously making her slightly taller.

Not only do high heels severely hamper a persons movement, but wearing them in the long run is very bad for you, as it makes you stand in an unnatural stance, and your weight isn't supported by the parts of your body that are meant to support it, but rather by the parts that are NOT meant to support your entire body-weight.

Because I don't want to make this text too long, and I don't think it should even be necessary, I will end by re-iterating that I think CDPR is doing a fine job with the game!
I am loving pretty much everything we have been shown so far, and Ciri's design is nothing short of excellent apart from the high heels! Give her some normal boots that are good for fighting and all will be well.


For the sake of making this thread a discussion, rather than just a "Heads up, we are not okay with this" kind of thing. Please feel free to discuss what other things you feel harms the believeability of a character/creature.
 
girls butt looks better when she is wearing heels

thread closed.



also your post have strong anita feminism vibe



this is bad mkey ?
 
I completely agree with all the points made in the OP; however, we should take into account that there might be a plausible in-story explanation for the high heels. We know that Ciri is on the run, escaping from the Wild Hunt. She might have escaped from some, say, social event where her high heels would be appropriate. Though, in my opinion, her other clothing, and the fact that she had her sword with her, somewhat contradict this version.

Maybe @Marcin Momot could ask the concept/character artists to give us some clarification on this vision? We would be very grateful for this.
 
Totally agree!! I think she would actually look cooler with normal boots, and the one other thing that bugs me about her design(yeah I know its getting old) is her hair, to me it should be the same color as Dany's hair in GoT, but if not the it should at least be a different color from Geralts hair
 
It would be nice to have a story on how Ciri is dressed the way she is, what sword she is carrying, and so forth. Absent that, it is of the greatest importance to avoid treading over the line between requests and demands and accusations of disrespect or catering to a sexist audience. Gods know, the rest of the world will do that already. But it's nice to know the forums have so many character artists who know how to draw a character they have never seen better than the artists CDPR has had working on Ciri for months or years.
 
It would be nice to have a story on how Ciri is dressed the way she is, what sword she is carrying, and so forth. Absent that, it is of the greatest importance to avoid treading over the line between requests and demands and accusations of disrespect or catering to a sexist audience. Gods know, the rest of the world will do that already. But it's nice to know the forums have so many character artists who know how to draw a character they have never seen better than the artists CDPR has had working on Ciri for months or years.

I don't know about you, but I would like it if CDPR didn't have to get accused of sexism when the game comes out in the first place.
Not giving important characters like Ciri the eyecandy treatment would go a long way towards preventing those accusations.
 
I don't know about you, but I would like it if CDPR didn't have to get accused of sexism when the game comes out in the first place.
Not giving important characters like Ciri the eyecandy treatment would go a long way towards preventing those accusations.

It will. Thanks to A.S. and the way her drivel was accepted uncritically in some quarters and viciously overreacted to in others, there's no way it won't happen. So not letting fear of criticism undermine your character decisions is actually the way to take a stand.

More important to have well-founded stories of who Ciri is and why she is who she is, and how they created her character in line with those stories. Character is infinitely more important than dress.
 
I don't know about you, but I would like it if CDPR didn't have to get accused of sexism when the game comes out in the first place.
Not giving important characters like Ciri the eyecandy treatment would go a long way towards preventing those accusations.

I cannot agree with you here (sorry, that redpoint was a misplaced click), since I don't think that CDPR should care about any accusations. In my opinion they should care only about their vision and believability/coherence of the story. And from the point of view of believability high heels seem to be out of place (if there isn't solid story reason why they should be there, of course).
 
It will. Thanks to A.S. and the way her drivel was accepted uncritically in some quarters and viciously overreacted to in others, there's no way it won't happen. So not letting fear of criticism undermine your character decisions is actually the way to take a stand.

More important to have well-founded stories of who Ciri is and why she is who she is, and how they created her character in line with those stories. Character is infinitely more important than dress.

Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. To me, a witcher wearing high heels is as ridiculous as Geralt wearing a banana-hammock, ironically a banana-hammock would be more fitting for combat than high heels.

Also, just because people like Anita Sarkeesian will no doubt criticize it anyway, is no reason to give them more ammunition.
 
I don't know about you, but I would like it if CDPR didn't have to get accused of sexism when the game comes out in the first place.
Not giving important characters like Ciri the eyecandy treatment would go a long way towards preventing those accusations.
No!

Game devs should make the games they want to make, not the games that someone with no clue dictates (not referring to you), especially when that someone lies through their teeth and and cherry picks moments in games to sustain their arguments that hold no water when analyzed logically.

The "it doesn't make sense from a practical point of view" argument is more than valid, if they chose to change Ciri's looks it should be based on their own vision and criteria, not on some political agenda BS that's being pushed around by people who are more interested in making money than the actual real issues they present.
 
I cannot agree with you here (sorry, that redpoint was a misplaced click), since I don't think that CDPR should care about any accusations. In my opinion they should care only about their vision and believability/coherence of the story. And from the point of view of believability high heels seem to be out of place (if there isn't solid story reason why they should be there, of course).

My main point about the high heels being removed isn't about avoiding criticism, that would just be a nice little bonus. It's about respecting the characters and not compromising the credibility of the universe, which is one of the most notable parts of The Witcher franchise, the fact that it is a believable fantasy.
 
Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. To me, a witcher wearing high heels is as ridiculous as Geralt wearing a banana-hammock, ironically a banana-hammock would be more fitting for combat than high heels.

If my memory serves me well, Geralt was wearing quite unwitchery clothes at least once (at the party before the Thanedd coup). If Ciri, for instance, was attending something like that when she had to start escaping from the Wild Hunt, high heels would be appropriate. However, her other clothing, as I said above, somewhat contradicts this version.

@jerf exactly, except that I doubt that CDPR care about people like Sarkeesian or other feminists.

Fortunately, they don't. (I'm looking at you, Bioware.)
 
Last edited:
CDPR should go on with their own vision, without giving a damn about that Sarkeesian's opinions and other people that doesn't know a damn thing about the witcher universe. And about the high heels, I see it as one of the bottom issues, there are things far more important that should be handled first.
 
Well, It doesn't make sense to have high heels especially on the run. But Guys it's CDPR we know and love. I'm sure they have a reason behind it, at least as a promotional material. Maybe in game she's wearing normal boots, who knows. Maybe Marcin will let us know ahead of time
 
If my memory serves me well, Geralt was wearing quite unwitchery clothes at least once (at the party before the Thanedd coup). If Ciri, for instance, was attending something like that when she had to start escaping from the Wild Hunt, high heels would be appropriate. However, her other clothing, as I said above, somewhat contradicts this version.

Well, I would be totally fine with it if Ciri's heels were explained by having to make a hasty escape from some fancy party or whatever and she changes into swordsman-friendly footwear after making her escape to the witcher world. I very much doubt this is the case though. If it is, it would be nice if a developer could let us know in as spoilerfree a manner as possible.
 
My main point about the high heels being removed isn't about avoiding criticism, that would just be a nice little bonus. It's about respecting the characters and not compromising the credibility of the universe, which is one of the most notable parts of The Witcher franchise, the fact that it is a believable fantasy.

Bonuses like this one shouldn't be taken into account, because it can lead to dire consequences in the long run (let me nod at Bioware once again).

I completely agree with all the other points you raised, though (as I already said above).
 
I don't know about you, but I would like it if CDPR didn't have to get accused of sexism when the game comes out in the first place.
Not giving important characters like Ciri the eyecandy treatment would go a long way towards preventing those accusations.

Just doing something because they fear the reaction from a certain crowd would be the worst thing they could do. CD Project Red is not Bioware and I hope they will never ever be like present Bioware. I'm also not happy with the high-heels, but If people claim to remove them to appease some radical feminists than I would be the first person to defend the design choice. This being said, we don't know where she was before she went trough the portal. Maybe there are story reasons for her to wear heels. I think CD Project Red deservers a bit trust.
 
Top Bottom