High heels vs character-believability and respect

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What kind of heels are in the game ?

I believe some flat bottom heels are really effective when traversing rough terrain and when riding horses,although I amnot a very knowledgeable explorer lol.
 
First and foremost, this is fantasy. This is the fantastical we are talking about. Anything and everything can happen here because of it.

I mean we can have teleportation, magic powers, interest creatures, monsters....and the thing we worry about is...High Heels ? Eye Candy treatment ? Give me a break, the pungent smell of hypocrisy is getting on my nerves.

This the realm of the fantastical where imagination goes wild, where artistic vision comes to life and where we can make any character that wear whatever they wear and look however they like.

Just because CDPR makes characters that look beautiful and wears high heels, does not mean they are anti-believabilty or pro-objectification. This is their artistic vision, it is not harming anyone and its main purpose is to entertain people. CDPR is not perpetuating some "women are weak" social justice agenda.

All in all, this is a fantasy interactive entertainment. Characters can wear whatever they like, behave the way the writers want them to and have abilities and powers the writers want them to. Because its fantasy, not reality. Also, wearing high heels is not a sign of disrespect.

I am of the opinion that CDPR is having a mix of the fantastical and of the real nitty gritty, which is perfectly fine by me.
Anything goes in the fantasy genre. I personally try not to over think cosmetics/fashion in the fantasy realm; a losing battle indeed.
I don't agree that just because you categorize something under the "Fantasy" genre, then everything can go. Or that there is nothing that should not go. My personal preference is that fantasy remains coherent with itself and sticks to its general tone. Some choose to go for the extravagant, with very bulky armor like in WoW, or a stimulating lack thereof.



CDPR opted a very gritty, medieval-esque era, where people in the franchise behave like people in our world. It's portrayed wonderfully in their attitude towards Geralt - what would he wear that would offer him protection, without harming his precious maneuverability? This is a practical sort of thinking a Witcher would assume. Despite being incredibly fast, with a plethora of other bonus mutant abilities, he is not so "fantastical" that he doesn't need to take into account utilitarian considerations.

Ciri's heels stand out in particular because the Reds do a fantastic (pun intended) job in general. The game looks so marvelous that the small things become more jarring. If you want to resemble an alternate medieval era with monsters, then to maintain that verisimilitude your imagination shouldn't "run wild" in the non-fantasy elements. When you're designing hags and werewolves and spells, then you can be creative. But when you're dealing with a swordswoman, your way of thinking should change to a realistic one. Yes, even if she is a sorceress. Because, again, there is a distinction between the non-fantasy elements, and the fantasy ones.

Mind, I don't relate to the objectification argument. Nor does this issue burn in me. I just think it's more credible, and that's about it. Also, heels aren't too cool anyway in my opinion. Something about practicality in gritty fantasy makes me enjoy a character much more. It makes me think: "Oh, this guy knows what he's doing." It's what in TW2 made me love Triss' design so much, and what made me quirk a brow at Iorveth's skirt. Seriously, how does he run in the woods with that thing? Probably annoying as hell.
 
If you want to talk realism in a fantasy game...

If I am one of the most powerful sorcerer in the game, I should be able to wear what I want and look cool, especially if I can time travel or teleport. Functionality for walking would be the least/none of my concern.

I'm not defending CDPR. At least Ciri doesn't look like she just came out of a club or anything. IMHO it's just a hint of fashion being added. It's not overly done at all compared to other female Witchers in term of sex appeal. I think a good compromise is to cut a few centimeters.
 
I'm going to try to phrase this as much in the vein of constructive criticism as I can, because I don't want to sound like I'm shitting all over CDPR.
I do in fact have a great deal of respect for CDPR, which is also the reason I'm going to bother writing this in the first place, I wouldn't bother if I
didn't think you would at least take the time to read it, and hopefully to act upon it.

Character-believability and respectful, non-exploitative representation of characters is of course immensely important in a game like The Witcher 3.
As it has been explained by two separate developers, in different interviews already, the character designers spent a lot of time tweaking the designs of each character in a way that makes them believable, and doesn't just try to make something look cool. And I quote: "Geralt needs to be able to kill monsters effectively" and "This isn't a fashion contest!"
Now while this is thankfully the case with Geralt and the other male witchers in the franchise, I find it extremely disrespectful to the character, that Ciri wasn't afforded this consideration. And judging by the nature of this oversight in believability and practicality it is simply because she is a woman, which apparently means that sex-appeal trumps believability and lore-accuracy, even when this character isn't, or at least shouldn't be romanceable.

Whether you consider Ciri to be a witcher or not, makes no difference. She is a swordfighter, and a bloody good one at that. Her fighting-style is the same as the witchers use, and I am flabbergasted (as our friend Johnny would say) that the very talented people designing the characters for TW3 decided to give her high heeled boots!

It should be abundantly clear to anyone who has ever used their legs for more than simply walking, that high heels are just the worst type of footwear imaginable.
Frankly, anything that impedes ones ability to function as a normal, healthy human being, is a terrible idea for someone who's life has revolved around fighting and training for fighting since the age of 11 to wear.

High heels have one single purpose in normal life, and that is to manipulate a woman's posture into an exaggerated state, that is meant to be sexually appealing. Basically: Tits forward, ass backwards, arched back, while simultaneously making her slightly taller.

Not only do high heels severely hamper a persons movement, but wearing them in the long run is very bad for you, as it makes you stand in an unnatural stance, and your weight isn't supported by the parts of your body that are meant to support it, but rather by the parts that are NOT meant to support your entire body-weight.

Because I don't want to make this text too long, and I don't think it should even be necessary, I will end by re-iterating that I think CDPR is doing a fine job with the game!
I am loving pretty much everything we have been shown so far, and Ciri's design is nothing short of excellent apart from the high heels! Give her some normal boots that are good for fighting and all will be well.


For the sake of making this thread a discussion, rather than just a "Heads up, we are not okay with this" kind of thing. Please feel free to discuss what other things you feel harms the believeability of a character/creature.

Alright what I have to say on this is simple. She has the power to walk through dimensions, and god knows what else. Her wearing inappropriate footwear for some unknown reason in that one scene is not indicative of anything. Later attire, skill impediment, or anything. The girl has the ability to make REALITY her bitch, and you think she can't pull off some simple gymnastic feats in raised boots. Not even high heals, but fully ergonomically supportive raised boots that people hike in.
 
Giselher did not answer. He picked up a rock, took aim and sent it crashing against the door. ‘Come out, Bonhart!’


‘Come out, Bonhart!’ The Rats repeated in chorus. ‘Come out, Bonhart!’


Steps echoed from inside. Slow and heavy. Mistle felt a chill run down her spine.


Bonhart appeared at the door.


The Rats instinctively took a step back, dug the high heels of their boots into the ground, and moved their hands to their hilts.

from The Tower of the Swallow
 
If you want to talk realism in a fantasy game...

If I am one of the most powerful sorcerer in the game, I should be able to wear what I want and look cool, especially if I can time travel or teleport. Functionality for walking would be the least/none of my concern.

Ciri is not the most powerful sorceress. She's the most powerful if she was taught be Philippa or Francesca since she has the most magical potential also she disavowed magic and almost never uses it (didn't read the books though).

Ciri is a swordsman witcher first and foremost and even if she's the best swordsman she still wouldn't wear those heels.
@Guy N'wah how much time will Ciri be spending on a horse realistically? Is she going to fight on a horse all the time? The logical thing would be to compromise and make the heels sensibly shorter.
 
how much time will Ciri be spending on a horse realistically? Is she going to fight on a horse all the time? The logical thing would be to compromise and make the heels sensibly shorter.
We don't even know how much we'll see Ciri in the first place, time spent doesn't even come into the equation we could be seeing her for very short whiles until the very end for all we know.
 

wazaa

Forum veteran
Hm... personally, I don't care. With or with no heels the way she is dressed is much better than most of other fantasy games.

If I have to begin to care, I would care about things as welding the swords in the back (dangerous when you take it, thanks to the protection (it is clearly shown in the in game demo the issue), and dangerous cause it makes it easier to take the sword from the back for someone that wants to kill you.

The real fact is that most of us doesn't know almost NOTHING of how these things worked, of the pros and the cons of the weapons, shields, armor... how they managed combat, different weapons, etcetera. What did they wear, etcetera.

And we don't need. I don't need to know how people lived for real in an era that toilet paper did not exist. I don't need the details :) I only care about something that feels believable in the interpretation of the world that has been done, in the game.

And in the Witcher interpretation, from CD Projekt, most of the girls wear heels and witchers steals money from people houses.
 
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Yeah, but she doesn't necessarily need high heels for that. I'm pretty sure she'd be just as attractive without them.

Personally I don't mind them but I wouldn't mind it either if they removed them. I don't really care. Realistically speaking they don't make much sense but you can find similar situations in the Witcher games (and games in general I guess) that don't make much sense either yet people come to accept them because it looks cool/attractive/whatever. Like swords on back+rolling for example, it makes 0 sense realistically speaking but it's fantasy and people accept it because it sets witchers further apart from normal swordsmen.
 
As long as it has a reason I am fine.
If it is made "just because" however I agree it is not okay. It will definitely not ruin the game for me (in contrast to Geralts face for example) but it will definitely bother me once in a while.

I want to go ahead and lay some supporting arguments for my opinion here, and some basic facts and assumptions around this discussion.

First and foremost, this game - although a fantasy game - is presenting a solid game world to us with lots of cultural background, location knowledge and physical rules of the so called "Witcher universe". Those background informations are a mix of CDPR-created information and the lore of the Witcher books on which the game is based. The world has a set number of rules to which every object and individual within the book and series is bound. Those borders can be stretched by creating certain circumstances or introducing new (reasonable) concepts.

Fact however, due to game lore, is that Ciri is taught to fight and has the knowledge about what to wear in a fight.
She also is on the run a long time now.

A possibility is that Ciri might have tried to go incognito (the clothing) while still being ready to fight if needed (the sword).
That is a reasonable explanation.
Every other explanation, such as a party or cultural event or special circumstances might explain the outfit.
And if it is that way this is 100% okay.

However, the devs definitely have a responsibility here. The responsibility to keep their characters reasonable and believable within the world they are set in.
This included respecting game lore.
In this case it would not be bad if there was a reason Ciri wore those clothes.
However if there is none, and if Ciri wears them throughout the whole game, then this would be a bad thing.
Within the word, and with the knowledge Ciri has due to the before mentioned lore her character is based on, she should know better than to take heels to run and fight.

This is my opinion basically.
 
Ciri is not the most powerful sorceress. She's the most powerful if she was taught be Philippa or Francesca since she has the most magical potential also she disavowed magic and almost never uses it (didn't read the books though).

Ciri is a swordsman witcher first and foremost and even if she's the best swordsman she still wouldn't wear those heels.
@Guy N'wah how much time will Ciri be spending on a horse realistically? Is she going to fight on a horse all the time? The logical thing would be to compromise and make the heels sensibly shorter.

Even if she mostly rides, those heels are too high. The concern I have is that we are making much of a superficiality, and sometimes doing so in disrespectful, demanding, and accusing words. I want to know what trouble she is in and how she got there. I have a pretty good idea, but I want to play the game to learn that, not focus on whether she is running about the countryside in too-high heels.
 
What Ciri was wearing are chunky heels with more stability than traditional high heel or Stiletto, so it's not that bad.
From what I can see, it's about 10 cm, which is a bit too high, but in term of practicality, it's not worse than Geralt having 2 long swords with scabbards on his back.
So it's non issue for me, and actually could be one of her quirks. I always imagine she's an oddball like Geralt.
 


But seriously, heels and swords don't work together very well.

Yeah, but you know, one of the main issues people have is that it's apparently ruins the believability of this world, However, the quote provided by ReptilePZ indicates that all Rats members were wearing high heels boots, even in combat and yet they still were effective fighters. In other words, Sapkowski himself didn't had any problem with that.

To elaborate even further, if all Rats were wearing high heels boots on daily basis, it's not surprising that Ciri wears them too, especially seeing how much they affected her fashion sense. So there is nothing strange about the fact that she's wear them even nowadays. Saying that REDs are sexualizing Ciri by giving her heels is ridiculous, as Sapkowski established it as acceptable type of shoes for the warriors and it actually fits pretty well in Ciri's backstory.

I said my piece.
 
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