Homecoming Reveal

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Dear @StrykerxS77x, @FG15-ISH7EG, @DMaster2,
there are indirect ways to tune the consistency of decks or induce players to be careful with deck thinning.

As you know, Ciri:Nova is a good example of that, its strength induced many players to try out 2 bronze copies decks, without the need of a hard limit. In fact the limit of 30 cards will reduce diversity and design-space: no more 40 cards Foltest, no more cards like Hubert Rejk, no more 26 cards decks. Just one option: 30 cards.

An indirect threat to hyperthinning decks was Mill. You could run all your tutors, but you could get punished by the opponent strategy. I'm a huge Mill fan as it provided almost a different win condition and it was a counter to the meta. Basically it kept highly consistence decks in check.

The developer could even come up with specific cards that increase in points the lower the number of cards left in your opponent deck.

Right now when I see the reaction of the community and most of the streamers, it feels to me like another Midwinter patch. Most of the people were actually happy with the create mechanic. Streamers and their viewers were asking for more RNG. But in the end they changed their mind. I hope to be wrong.
 
Sorry can't get the hang of these forums {prefered the old one} how do I quote each portion of text from a post the way you did?
.

I copy and paste this -- [/QUOTE] --- to the end of the portion I want to discuss. Also the quoted portion of your name goes at the start of the portion I am clipping out as a quote.

Cheers.
 
Right now when I see the reaction of the community and most of the streamers, it feels to me like another Midwinter patch. Most of the people were actually happy with the create mechanic. Streamers and their viewers were asking for more RNG. But in the end they changed their mind. I hope to be wrong.

Errr are we watching the same streamers? ;)

Off the top of my head two of the major YT streamers / content makers stopped playing the game after the midwinter patch explicitly because of the create mechanic and increased RNG (with implied point slamming and reduction in strategy).
 
Faction abilities will be readded in a more healthy state

Eh, where do you get that? I dont mean the statement itself, but the grounding infos for that assumption. Do we know what the faction abilities are yet?

For Goldimmunity: If i remember correctly, there were Yennefer which was a problem and some other were a bit(!) to strong, not complete op. All we needed in this time are some units, which could damage golds, like some silvers. A valid tactic in these times was a D-shackle/bomb as well. This should be pretty easy with all these tutors nowadays.
On the other hand, gold give you a some stable points against weather. Another part which could be balanced. And we had some promising ideas for it, like weather immune or a better counter like todays daylight
 
... All we needed in this time are some units, which could damage golds, like some silvers...
Yes. I was running D-Shacks in, I think, every deck I've built and it won me games more often than not. Also, there were cards like the (now Bronze) Kaedweni Officer, that had the ability to Demote Golds to Silvers, which was also very useful. Lock cards were auto-include for the most part - you could not see a NG deck without Aukes (just like now with Assire and I was SICK TO DEATH of Aukes). Auto-include is no good, but what is worse is to make cards like D-Shacks, D-Bomb and locks (Aukes and Donnar in particular) USELESS. Aukes also had the ability to damage by 1 with every lock, which could've align a Scorch or Igni here or there, but this was also taken away from the card. Donnar was disgustingly OP so they made him totally useless now.

... when I look back at how much stuff was removed from the game my head starts spinning...

... and now we go to really low points cards which... I don't know, this scares the shit out of me. Are they trying to do so every deck can calculate exactly X amount of points and than the way you play will decide the game? But than comes the problem with the cards you draw during every game. Which makes Leaders/Cards that give you more mulligans superior. Sounds like replacing one broken mechanic with another.

Of course, I can be entirely wrong, but when you start thinking of it... it get scary.
 
OK wow. This was unexpected. Not expecting to see anything.

I like that the cards are closer to how they were in closed beta. Like the size too. However the borders need to be brighter be a use bronze and gold look similar. I like the idea of having a separate action for the melee and ranged row. Very cool. No silvers is a disappoint though. But I guess it doesn't matter honestly. Point creep looks like it's toned down too.

The battlefield is cool. Not sure if I care for the leaders standing there though. I would have liked to see more though like a full match. I'm a harsh critic of gwent as it's all I play but I'm liking what I see for the most part.
 
And had a unique atmosphere.

One month still...

Can we at least have this current version of the game somewhere to play? Cause my eyes will not bear what I saw presented after 5 months of work.

This board with these Leaders... what were you thinking? ANY man with a pinch of sense of art will tell you it looks like crap. Yes, the UI did needed some adjustments, just like the current version of the game, indeed, but this... way, WAY too much.

I am sorry, I am so frustrated right now. This game did not deserved this.
I still think it's a good idea to keep old gwent as a game mode. Even if hc is a success
 
Hello there,

I would like to take the opportunity to give some feedback about graphics/visuals of project Homecoming.

The art is getting better and better. And I'm pretty sure this is the right direction for Gwent. Great work CDPR!
That being said, I would really like to see several tweaks:
  • A redesign of 3D leaders (more consistent and polished)
  • A different position for the leaders (several players suggested the opposite side of the board)
  • A better way to appreciate bronze cards, gold cards and rarities
  • A more consistent focus between elements in the background (some of them seem blurred)
  • A little bit more saturation for cards in hand and on the board
  • A more consistent design for the blue arrow
  • A better highlight for row symbols
  • A 'pass' and 'end of turn' button more polished in terms of animation and design
  • A better transition between the board, the hand, the deck and the graveyard in terms of graphics
  • Changing the white font of the mulligan screen for something less blank and more elegant
  • Filling the blank background of cards highlights with small runes or lore diagrams
  • Adjusting the small tooltips in order to match the new art direction (colours, saturation and textures)
On top of that, I think the new board has a problem of perspective, as u/SalvatoreCiaoAmore pointed out here. I created a picture to better understand what he meant. As you can see each zone (1. Sides / 2. Graveyard / 3. Hand / 4. Board / 5. Opponent's graveyard / 6. Opponent's hand / 7. Leaders / 8. Tree) has a slightly different perspective or angle. This is something that you guys should take a look at. In my opinion it might confuse players and/or break the game immersion.

Overall, I'm very curious and excited to see how this new atmosphere will be handled in the menu of the game (UI/UX).

Va faill! :)
 
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1) If I wanted to have random match results, I would choose a trading card game of any competition.


2) I am always surprised that it is assumed that more playability would only be possible with Powercreep. More ways to play are key. For example, theme-based decks such as a focus on the cursed or items.

This should not be confused with forcing the cards to be used by reducing the limit.
1) If you wanted a game with no variance, card games are an ill pick. You are free to choose whatever game you prefer, that doesn't change the fact that gwent NEEDS to have less consistency.
2) Think in prospective. After release the game should pump out 150+ cards expansions, probably at least 2 per year. How do you think they could print more bronze that see play but aren't powercreep to the current ones? They can't, simple as that.
 
Dear @StrykerxS77x, @FG15-ISH7EG, @DMaster2,
there are indirect ways to tune the consistency of decks or induce players to be careful with deck thinning.

As you know, Ciri:Nova is a good example of that, its strength induced many players to try out 2 bronze copies decks, without the need of a hard limit. In fact the limit of 30 cards will reduce diversity and design-space: no more 40 cards Foltest, no more cards like Hubert Rejk, no more 26 cards decks. Just one option: 30 cards.

An indirect threat to hyperthinning decks was Mill. You could run all your tutors, but you could get punished by the opponent strategy. I'm a huge Mill fan as it provided almost a different win condition and it was a counter to the meta. Basically it kept highly consistence decks in check.

The developer could even come up with specific cards that increase in points the lower the number of cards left in your opponent deck.

Right now when I see the reaction of the community and most of the streamers, it feels to me like another Midwinter patch. Most of the people were actually happy with the create mechanic. Streamers and their viewers were asking for more RNG. But in the end they changed their mind. I hope to be wrong.
Are we sure that it has to be exactly 30 cards? I only know of a minimum of 30 cards and the fact that Foltest 40 will be gone. With a new deck building system it is quite likely that there is an actual limit, but I can also imagine systems, where there isn't one.
 
Dear @StrykerxS77x, @FG15-ISH7EG, @DMaster2,
there are indirect ways to tune the consistency of decks or induce players to be careful with deck thinning.

As you know, Ciri:Nova is a good example of that, its strength induced many players to try out 2 bronze copies decks, without the need of a hard limit. In fact the limit of 30 cards will reduce diversity and design-space: no more 40 cards Foltest, no more cards like Hubert Rejk, no more 26 cards decks. Just one option: 30 cards.

An indirect threat to hyperthinning decks was Mill. You could run all your tutors, but you could get punished by the opponent strategy. I'm a huge Mill fan as it provided almost a different win condition and it was a counter to the meta. Basically it kept highly consistence decks in check.

The developer could even come up with specific cards that increase in points the lower the number of cards left in your opponent deck.

Right now when I see the reaction of the community and most of the streamers, it feels to me like another Midwinter patch. Most of the people were actually happy with the create mechanic. Streamers and their viewers were asking for more RNG. But in the end they changed their mind. I hope to be wrong.
Ciri Nova is a terrible example because people still load tutors and card draw and manage to play Ciri every single game. That quite defies the point.

And you don't grasp the issue. The issue is not hyperefficient decks per se. The problem is that it's impossible to design more bronze that see play unless you go into the powercreep route.
And not just "a few", Gwent after release should see a steady stream of expansions, i'd say at least 2 per year. It's simply impossible in the current gwent to do so.
 
How many times are they going to ruin this game for me.. I loved it back in closet beta, then they redid all the cards and took away all the card from me (even the once I've crafted) and I just started getting in to in again last month.. if you reset my cards this time then I'm f***ing out.
 
and we're still being fed scraps of informations. The reveal video didn't say that much if you ignore the graphics stuff.
My point right there. We don't know much of it yet. You let your imagination of fear and pessimism to conquer. There is not much information about it for anyone to have an insightful criticism nor opinion. All we know is that what we know of Gwent won't be there. Is that a bad thing? It is jarring for sure. The idea of learning Gwent from scratch is uncomfortable. (Btw, did it say there will be more RNG in Homecoming? Did I miss something ...)

I don't particularly feel comfortable with this revamp decision but I understand why CDPR did it. There is a fundamental problem in Gwent right now that no amount of balance will fix without killing archetypes. Some cards are great against some and completely useless to other. If you don't draw a certain card at the beginning against certain decks, you will most likely lose the game, etc. etc. It was the dwarf decks being op. CDPR changed "strengthen" to "buff," and that archetype is nowhere to be seen. Then, a new problem arose and it was the coin flip + Wardancer. CDPR killed it per the community's request, and look what we have now.

If ppl are so accustomed to the 25-40 card, 3 rows, gold/silver/bronze structured decks that they are unwilling to try anything new. That's fairly fine. It's their choice after all, isn't it?

Lastly, people, CALM DOWN. How helpful is it to blow it up based on what you don't know? You may be right or You may be wrong. Maybe it will be "RIP Gwent," or "Horray Gwent." We'll find out when it arrives.
 
How many times are they going to ruin this game for me.. I loved it back in closet beta, then they redid all the cards and took away all the card from me (even the once I've crafted) and I just started getting in to in again last month.. if you reset my cards this time then I'm f***ing out.
They will delete every single one of your cards MWHAHAHAH


But you'll get full refund for each one
 
Are we sure that it has to be exactly 30 cards? I only know of a minimum of 30 cards and the fact that Foltest 40 will be gone. With a new deck building system it is quite likely that there is an actual limit, but I can also imagine systems, where there isn't one.

I think it's not yet set in stone.

And you don't grasp the issue. The issue is not hyperefficient decks per se. The problem is that it's impossible to design more bronze that see play unless you go into the powercreep route.

"Impossible to design more bronze that see play" is a bit of an exaggeration. The An Craite Warcrier, a bronze card that see almost zero play for months, has found a place in the deck of both Gwent Challenger finalists. Sometimes cards are not played, because they are not fashionable. It's not necessary a matter of raw power. So if you introduce new cards, doesn't necessarly mean that they become meta right away. Sometimes they need more sinergy from cards that are released at later stage in a different expansion or simply they need a different deck to work.

By looking at some of the suggestions of the community I also saw nice mechanics proposed (like a unit that would charge forward, moving one row at a time and damaging an opponent unit once on the front row). I think that there would have been enough design space without a reboot.

Plus there is no guarantee that after Homecoming the problem will be solved. Maybe in one year, we'll discover that "it's impossible to design more bronze that see play". Anyway, most of the CCG deal with this kind of stagnation by rotating their set of cards, not by rebooting the entire game.

Thinking of game developers choices entirely based on design space is also quite naïve. It looks to me that the choices made in the last year are made to increase the audience of the game. Young players, that like the fancy 3D monsters that fight at the edge of the board. Casual players that prefer a less complex gameplay: you place your minion on the board, you slap X damage to a random unit and that's it. An overall simplification of cards, that's what happened with Alba Pikmen, Shieldmaidens, Trollololo, Sk's Hunter, Morenn and so on.

Mind I'm not blaming CDProjekt Red. If their data show that they need a different demographic for their game, it's business.
But as a customer I'm not happy on how the game evolved from CloseBeta to Homecoming. It wasn't a golden age, with all those Promote Henselt, it wasn't balanced, but I simply liked the game more.
 
Decided not to multiple quote this but you can see the original post about 6 posts above. :)
  • A redesign of 3D leaders (more consistent and polished)
Yes (not sure it’s called a redesign, the shape and probably movements are fine, different mesh/texturing or some filter or something).

  • A different position for the leaders (several players suggested the opposite side of the board)
I don't see the problem with leaders on the same side that a lot of ppl seem to have. They also emote and look at the board and probably have more interactions (at the same time) so looking at different sides of the screen to see them might not be the best idea.

  • A better way to appreciate bronze cards, gold cards and rarities
The gold ones (and their rarity because you can guess a bit more reliably about how many gold cards they have left) matter but I don't think anyone cares or needs huge white and blue triangles or whatever to show the quality of bronze cards during a match. They said they are already working on making golds more visible.

  • A more consistent focus between elements in the background (some of them seem blurred)
Yes to "no blur" anywhere in any game ever

  • A little bit more saturation for cards in hand and on the board
Yes to saturation (even if it might look a bit out of place with the dark boards like monsters have)

  • A more consistent design for the blue arrow
Yes the arrows sucks (also something smaller/thinner)

  • A better highlight for row symbols
Row symbols don't need to pop-out (and ruin the battlefield feel), you understand what those are after 2 games (*cough* new mandatory tutorial we are getting *cough*) and they don't move (ever) but a bigger (but not that big) problem is the alignment of the row power count with the actual rows. The row symbols aren't even alligned (but still don't particularly care).

  • A 'pass' and 'end of turn' button more polished in terms of animation and design
Don't see why not. I’m wondering if there are different ones for each faction (or there could be).

  • A better transition between the board, the hand, the deck and the graveyard in terms of graphics
No idea how that would look but sure, as long as they get rid of thing where you don’t see the lower third (up to half) of your cards on top of not seeing 15-25% of their right side. And maybe the apparent levitation of the stacks of cards on the sides of your hand (at least on this board).

  • Changing the white font of the mulligan screen for something less blank and more elegant
Yep to cool font for every faction (or even just one, maybe with different color theme, for the whole game).

  • Filling the blank background of cards highlights with small runes or lore diagrams
Yea those did look out of place (maybe even a way to turn them off, or to have an “abridged” version to make them even less visible and less meddling with the feel if you don’t need them and are used to the cards). And I’ll say it again, the mouse hover base power needs to be a thing.

  • Adjusting the small tooltips in order to match the new art direction (colors, saturation and textures)
Maybe even faction specific ones.


  • On top of that, I think the new board has a problem of perspective, as u/SalvatoreCiaoAmore pointed out here. I created a picture to better understand what he meant. As you can see each zone (1. Sides / 2. Graveyard / 3. Hand / 4. Board / 5. Opponent's graveyard / 6. Opponent's hand / 7. Leaders / 8. Tree) has a slightly different perspective or angle. This is something that you guys should take a look at. In my opinion it might confuse players and/or break the game immersion.

Maybe I’m blind but I don’t get what “tilted front view” means or how it differs from “tilted top down view” (in this case) BUT the right side front view is a bit weird and not needed AND the important part are the way too tilted cards on the back rows (especially the enemy side). I don’t really care if there’s a weird (or weirder) view discrepancy between the board and the part where the leaders are if you see more of the cards on board from a closer to top view angle.

There was also the question that you have to click on the board then the row to place cards (instead of dragging, it's not clear from the video), if that is the case atm it should be changed back (or be an option).
 
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"Impossible to design more bronze that see play" is a bit of an exaggeration. The An Craite Warcrier, a bronze card that see almost zero play for months, has found a place in the deck of both Gwent Challenger finalists. Sometimes cards are not played, because they are not fashionable. It's not necessary a matter of raw power. So if you introduce new cards, doesn't necessarly mean that they become meta right away. Sometimes they need more sinergy from cards that are released at later stage in a different expansion or simply they need a different deck to work.

By looking at some of the suggestions of the community I also saw nice mechanics proposed (like a unit that would charge forward, moving one row at a time and damaging an opponent unit once on the front row). I think that there would have been enough design space without a reboot.

Plus there is no guarantee that after Homecoming the problem will be solved. Maybe in one year, we'll discover that "it's impossible to design more bronze that see play". Anyway, most of the CCG deal with this kind of stagnation by rotating their set of cards, not by rebooting the entire game.

Thinking of game developers choices entirely based on design space is also quite naïve. It looks to me that the choices made in the last year are made to increase the audience of the game. Young players, that like the fancy 3D monsters that fight at the edge of the board. Casual players that prefer a less complex gameplay: you place your minion on the board, you slap X damage to a random unit and that's it. An overall simplification of cards, that's what happened with Alba Pikmen, Shieldmaidens, Trollololo, Sk's Hunter, Morenn and so on.

Mind I'm not blaming CDProjekt Red. If their data show that they need a different demographic for their game, it's business.
But as a customer I'm not happy on how the game evolved from CloseBeta to Homecoming. It wasn't a golden age, with all those Promote Henselt, it wasn't balanced, but I simply liked the game more.
I'll have to reinforce the concept, as a developer you need to design hundreds of bronzes per year and they should see some kind of play.
Warcrier found a place in a greedy deck that worked only because no one had a control list? Cool, that's like 1 bronze out of how many that still don't see any kind of play?

And we are still at the base core of the game. If there is a problem designing new bronzes that sees play now (check midwinter), guess what happens in 1-2 years.

And sure, eventually after a few years rotation will probably be introduced. Like many other games before gwent. That is because you have to "free up space". And yes, because certain staples would always see play unless powercreeped or nerfed to death.
 
Everyone needs to watch this starting from minute mark 3:20 and at 0.25 speed. Makes me feel much better about the coming changes.
 
I like the look of the board. But i also like the faction boards they added as well...
Maybe if they can have the option to either or.... that would settle A LOT with the community

I've been playing this long and i have enjoyed the game in every phase,good or bad so im not going any where
 
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