Homosexuality in the Witcher 3

[wichat]

There's deep homosexuality in Spakowki book's but very subtle and private. In fact, few sexual relationships can be read in books with exception of Geralt's ones. By contrast, the female figures are much more numerous and impressive in the books than the games.

 

[sidspyker]

It's a game set in the medieval period, I really don't see the problem. As far as I know homosexuality wasn't something so 'accepted' back then. This is the kind of thing Bioware would do.

And no I'm not some intolerant prick who hates people for their sexual orientation.

 

[mai3r]

And no I'm not some intolerant prick who hates people for their sexual orientation.

I would be that prick and say that it's not really a sexual orientation... That's deviation, same as pedophilia and zoofilia, but disguised as "orientation". I don't say that i'm homophobic or something i just don't want to watch two guys kissing on the street, that's disgusting.

Waiting for my "-"

 

[cmdr_silverbolt]

I am surprised that people forget about Phillipa, the most interesting and potent lesbian character to exist in gaming history to date. But I guess if you're biased to see something, you can't see everything as it is, but how you want to see it.

The other thing I absolutely hate is how people look down on Dethmold as a character because of how he died in one scenario of the story; he had many admirable qualities, but he also had other qualities which make you dislike him (raping someone etc.), so you know, he's like a person who could actually exist in our world.

So really, there aren't a whole lot of "positive" characters in these series anyways- these characters are based after how people exist in the real world, our fucking world, where no one is a paragon or some blob of "positivity"; they have traits that some consider positive, but which others would not, like Dethmold's intelligence could also be considered as shrewdness by characters who fear him as an enemy.

I don't think this series is for people who can't understand or appreciate nuance, and this has nothing to do with one's sexuality (ahem, I am mostly gay myself).

What I find insufferable is people making retroactive demands like this from storytellers- do you go to GRRM's website and say you think he shouldn't

Spoiler

have killed Renly?

Or that his story is anti-gay for having done so?

I don't think that Dethmold's death had any negative connotations for or about gay people, and no- it does not make sense for any storyteller, who wants to write about real people and not cliches or cartoons, to include any which are just blobs of "positivity", and not like real people, who have both "positive" and "negative" qualities, and are subject to suffer the consequences of their actions, sometimes undeservedly so.

Guys- DON'T downvote the OP- everyone should be free to say what they want to say. The only reason I considered downvoting it was because this same discussion has occurred at least on three different occasions since I've been here.

So, advice for the future- please look up relevant threads before posting a new one.

 

[sidspyker]

I would be that prick and say that it's not really a sexual orientation...

Eitheway I don't 'hate' them.

 

[Kris_teh_pwnz]

Yeah, i'm tired of this as well.

So am I, but don't worry the game is being developed in Poland so we shouldn't really encounter any gay propaganda while playing. Anti-gay more likely.


and btw, if some have the right to say: "I like gay people" why others should be forbidden to say: " Gay people disgust me". It's just an opinion and you have to accept it

 

[mai3r]

It's okay if you're gay or lesbian, but just don't go outside and scream: 'I'm GAY, i'm GAY, Where's my tolerance?!" Do whatever you want to do people, but do it in your house.

 

[Kodaemon5924]

So am I, but don't worry the game is being developed in Poland so we shouldn't really encounter any gay propaganda while playing. Anti-gay more likely.

You see, now, as a straight Polish male, I'm offended.

 

[volsung]

I agree with everybody to an extent.

On the one hand, The Witcher universe is decadent and rotten and awful things happen to everybody. In particular, Roche has severe emotional issues and is addicted to violence, and after what Dethmold personally did to his group it is no surprise he acted that way. It is not justifiable in our society though. And yes I wouldn't be surprised if Roche was also homophobic. But he's a character in a play that doesn't represent CDPR's stance.

On the other hand, as medieval as it is, this setting is full of anachronisms! Guerilla? Triss talking about genetics? I'm sure if CDPR wanted they could throw in an acceptable gay couple, maybe living in fear of being discovered by the obtuse society they live in. In Vergen we had people fucking a succubus, is that socially acceptable then? I'm sure that, acceptable or not, there were tons of gay relationships in our historical middle ages (probably with terrible consequences). When has a restrictive society stopped people from doing what they want?

Also think about ancient Greece, tons of "gay relationships" there.

But I agree. We're not here to campaign or to tell the writers and designers how to do their job. The game is what it is and it does a fine job telling (or letting us tell) a story. But give the guy a break. Geralt has tons of heterosexual sex and the only openly gay (or bisexual) guy is, ugh, Dethmold.

 

[MarcAuron]

So CD Project are a bunch of savage, barbarian nutcases, how progressive OP.

Also it is propaganda, it's forced positive portrayal of a sexual orientation because of a sexual orientation, regardless how horrible the person is.

Roche avenged the blue stripes, possibly and indirectly Ves rape, and the slave another reason to be disgusted by the S/M element of Dethmold, not just his orientation
with one cut.

 

[wichat]

I am surprised that people forget about Phillipa, the most interesting and potent lesbian character to exist in gaming history to date.

No, but majority of men find exciting a lesbic scene but disturbing and awful a scene with two men. Maybe it's not a problem of game-devs but another kind of matter.

 

[CostinRaz]

No, but majority of men find exciting a lesbic scene but disturbing and awful a scene with two men.

Wouldn't there be a lot of women who would feel the same way about a gay scene in that they find it exciting?

Just saying it goes both ways.

 

[cmdr_silverbolt]

No, but majority of men find ...

And lesbians and bisexuals.

Costin said it first

 

[Eldanon]

The point is that The Witcher is dark fantasy, meaning that it's heavily grounded in real world Middle Ages. That's one of the reasons why many people (including myself) love it: the author of the books and the developers of the games tried to realisticly reproduce medieval society. They didn't force modern moral standards there, like it's done in many other games and books.
Now, nobody can deny that the real world Middle Ages society was quite homophobic and mysoginistic by modern standards. You cannot reproduce it faithfully without having these aspects. This means that in The Witcher world an openly gay character would be despised by almost everybody, simply because of how society works there. Some people there can get away with this, like sorcerers and sorceresses who are already percieved as being quite queer, but even they suffer a hit on their reputation for being openly gay.
I understand your concerns, but there simply cannot be truly positive openly gay character in this setting, because he/she will be hated by the society, which produces hate in response and so on.

Very very well said.

 

[xx55xx]

It's okay if you're gay or lesbian, but just don't go outside and scream: 'I'm GAY, i'm GAY, Where's my tolerance?!" Do whatever you want to do people, but do it in your house.

The issue is that we need to do that because people are not tolerant. If people were tolerant to begin with, we wouldn't need to take political steps to ensure that our rights are not trampled upon.

 

[wichat]

Wouldn't there be a lot of women who would feel the same way about a gay scene in that they find it exciting?

Just saying it goes both ways.

Never gonna count lesbic scenes in "normal" movies vs the opposite. Marketing was based on who really get money to home, and for centuries it was the Man of the House. So, cannot compare. Maybe, in future yeaars... well, I don't know.

 

[CostinRaz]

The issue is that we need to do that because people are not tolerant. If people were tolerant to begin with, we wouldn't need to take political steps to ensure that our rights are not trampled upon.

So it's a political discussion now then. Well time to call the moderators.

Wichat: Movies have been shit for a very very long time. I strongly believe games have far surpassed in being able to tell a story.

However my point about women getting excited at gay sex stands.

 

[username_3218976]

Castration is perhaps the most cathartic way to kill a gay person, and has been used as a tool to suppress homosexuality for decades. While I know that the Witcher is set in a dark medieval fantasy world where the norms and mores are different, video games should strive to promote positive messages whenever possible. Being gay is not a disease, and isn't something that should eradicated or exterminated, etc, etc.

So gay people should be portrayed in a positive light just because they are gay?
It's a bit hard to find someone who is truly portrayed in a positive light in The Witcher universe, isn't it?
CDPR uses history to add texture and verisimilitude to their plot. And If I'm not mistaken castration was a fairly common punishment for homosexuals in medieval times, at least for the first offense. That and burning. You really shouldn't take that scene as an offense to your sexuality.

That said, gays actually do have a place in The Witcher universe. Throughout history there have been many gay monarchs who only slept with women as chore. Not that I would like to see any myself... But hey, that's history.
Oh, and monarchs especially shouldn't be portrayed in a positive light in The Witcher. Imagine that happening, heh.

 

[xx55xx]

So it's a political discussion now then. Well time to call the moderators then.

Pardon me. Should not have taken it there, but some people were making political comments, so I had to respond in kind.

 

[wichat]

And lesbians and bisexuals.

Costin said it first />

In a society where any homosexual or "sexual desviated" aren't well seen? No.