Hot Fix for Grave Hag

[Restlessdingo32]

Sorry. I can't keep up with the abbreviations. What's CA?

Also. Usually by that time I've already used Scorch or the Mushrooms. The concern is that Hag is played last. Like. Literally last.

Card advantage. It's when you have more cards in hand than the opponent. If you have, say, 6 cards when the opponent has 5 going into R3, you get to play your final card after them (usually). A number of decks do X, Y or Z in R1, turning certain units into powerhouses along the way, try to get CA R2 and play those powerhouse cards late R3. CA is important for a number of reasons.

In the case of Gravehag, if the MS player has CA R3 they can play her as the last card play and the opponent is out of cards, thus unable to stop it. The way you stop Gravehag is to hold a counter for her for the end of the game and, under no circumstances, lose CA for R3. Now, there is a difference between saying and doing that.

 

[TheShift]

Rethaz Responds to Monster OP claims

Not Hag related .. but none the less

 

[Restlessdingo32]

I don't think MS is OP at all. Much of the time a deck gets blasted with OP claims when it becomes hard to deal with, over represented because certain deck builders champion it and everyone runs to netdeck, players simply do not know how to deal with it or some combination of these. That or their own favorite build has a terrible time dealing with it. I think Dagon swarm decks have a bit of all of this going for them right now. I don't think Consume does, so I see little reason to nerf it.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

Does everyone agree that Grave Hag needs a change?

I don't really see an argument for it being ok. It's basically always played last which the devs have not liked in the past. It generates far more value than any other silver card in the game by far. Heck I commonly see it have more value than gold cards. On top of that countering it is extremely hard unless you can pull off getting card advantage. Since it's agile they can keep it out of weather or other premeditated counters. How could it possibly be a balanced an interesting card for the game?

 

[Archpriest]

I don't play Spawn deck too often if at all but in order to generate all those points, it has to meet certain conditions:
1. spawn a lot of arachas
2. have ca or go dead last
All that isn't easily done imo. A decent opponent will deny Behemoths at every opportunity or try to 2 round. At least try to milk every card in the second. That is without removal options kept for the very pupose of killing her on sight.
Is she a powerful card? Absolutely.
Is she OP? I don't think so.

 

[Exoclyps]

I think they are working to fix it though. All spawned units are to be tokens next patch if I understand correctly. And perhaps tokens won't go to the graveyard, which will make the swing she make a lot less.

 

[devivre]

The way she is now she definitely needs a slightly longer timer.
But let's wait fot the patch .

 

[Lantea]

It definitely has to be changed so that the oponent has a chance to counter it, and so it can't trigger when the oponent has passed and has no cards left. Its completely out of whack with all other cards that were nerfed for this exact reason, like the cow carcass.

 

[Draconifors]

Grave Hag isn't a problem card or OP. She's definitely a powerful win condition when pulled off properly, but there are several ways to counter and/or prevent her getting value.

Lock or kill Behemoths to completely shut down the Consume player's plans. Lock or kill Vrans to prevent Arachas production. Mardroeme is great against Nekkers, eggs and the hag herself. Villentretenmerth and other Scorch effects can kill the hag post-consume. Many cards can be used to kill or lock the hag even if she was played via Marching Orders if you have card advantage.

If playing Scoia'tael, you can even snipe the hag with Morenn. It's an awesome feeling.

 

[SkippyHole]

I think they are working to fix it though. All spawned units are to be tokens next patch if I understand correctly. And perhaps tokens won't go to the graveyard, which will make the swing she make a lot less.

This is what they did in closed beta, and it was a bad idea there. The whole point of the card is that you can flood the graveyard, and get a higher number on your Grave Hag by doing so. It also limits design space for future cards that have effects that are based of graveyard numbers. I really hope this doesn't happen.

Grave Hag to me has never been a problem card. More often than not I shut it down. If I don't, it's more a case of "ok, that's your win con, and it won". It's certainly not more problematic than a massive swing like Tibor or Witchers, Crones, or anything else that gives a massive swing in one card. If it needs changing, increase the counter to 2, it would give a guaranteed turn to counter, unless you are massively behind, but I really don't think its too problematic.

 

[RickMelethron]

i hope they don't go around nerfing all round 3 finishers because people fail to counter them... if you're losing to them consistently, is probably for pushing too much on previous rounds or not running tools for card advantage (silver spies)

so far, i don't remember losing to grave hag finishers more than once; more often than not i can either counter the card or out value the opponent even with a 20pts hag

 

[StrykerxS77x]

Grave Hag to me has never been a problem card. More often than not I shut it down. If I don't, it's more a case of "ok, that's your win con, and it won". It's certainly not more problematic than a massive swing like Tibor or Witchers, Crones, or anything else that gives a massive swing in one card.

I really don't see the comparison to those other cards. Tibor is a 23 strength gold card that gives the opponent a bronze for triggering. So in reality Grave Hag pulls just as much or more strength than a Tibor without giving the opponent anything and it's just a silver card instead of a gold card. Witchers and Crones aren't a good comparison either. They take up three silver slots while Grave Hag takes only one. On top of that Witchers (unbuffed) is 17 strength. Grave Hag gets far more value regularly.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

i hope they don't go around nerfing all round 3 finishers because people fail to counter them... if you're losing to them consistently, is probably for pushing too much on previous rounds or not running tools for card advantage (silver spies)

so far, i don't remember losing to grave hag finishers more than once; more often than not i can either counter the card or out value the opponent even with a 20pts hag

What round three finisher is even comparable to grave hag?

 

[marina22]

Yes,just now had game where i had 2 cards advantage and he just pulled out grave hag at end ,pufff 27 points card so fair lol

 

[Karajorma]

I have no idea why people have so many complaints about the Hag when SK and ST can easily boost or strengthen a single card to 20 points (or a pair of cards to 30 or beyond) and keep it in their hand until the last round and monsters pretty much can't do that except with the hag, a card which has the same sort of level of swing but which gets played as a 2 point card which can be taken out by almost anything.

 

[Cardzilla]

add a 2 turn timer and make some of those consumables be banished. i've seen her played for 29 pts.

 

[SkippyHole]

I really don't see the comparison to those other cards. Tibor is a 23 strength gold card that gives the opponent a bronze for triggering. So in reality Grave Hag pulls just as much or more strength than a Tibor without giving the opponent anything and it's just a silver card instead of a gold card. Witchers and Crones aren't a good comparison either. They take up three silver slots while Grave Hag takes only one. On top of that Witchers (unbuffed) is 17 strength. Grave Hag gets far more value regularly.

The comparison is that it's a round 3 finisher, pretty much your win con like those other cards can be. And the fact that its silver instead of gold is a big plus, means you can counter. But you are right, they aren't the best comparison. Perhaps a better one is Queensguard. Round 3, last card res can easily be 30+ strength in one turn, from a bronze card. Base strength as well, so much harder to counter. Both are the finishers for their decks, both can fit in multiple decks but require a strategy built around them to work. As such, I'd say 2 turn timer and Grave Hag is fine.

 

[premiumlagerbeer]

Give her a 2 turn counter and she's fine. But as is it's game over if you go into round 3 against Consume without card advantage.

 

[Skryba86]

Grave hag with a 2 turn counter needs a bigger base body, so it doesn't just die to everything that touches it, IMO.

 

[RickMelethron]

What round three finisher is even comparable to grave hag?

tibor, crones, triple/double buff units (spotter, captain, protector)

lets not forget those cheeky little queensguards