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If you play with blood eagle you'll realise the conditions are not that easy, most of the time you want to instantly use blood eagle, mainly to pull Skjordal for a quick kill on a Engine or something, which is going to be more difficult.
Anyway I'm surprised by the quick Nerf, Can't tell how hard it's going to hit SK, but it's a little annoying that most factions get hotfixed, apparently the ones that are mostly weak throughout the year, but when it comes to certain factions we have to wait seasons for a nerf.
I believe like the others prov limit is a good way to balance these Leaders, Nothing equals to playing These high prov cards twice basically.
There are so many options to get the deathblow or bloodthirst how can you say it's not easy?
This is the only faction specific echo card that consistently tutors their evolve card and it's a measly 10 provisions, ridiculous. I have yet to see a Skellige player struggling to pull this card off, it's practically guaranteed. Not difficult at all.
 

DRK3

Forum veteran
I wonder if they've considered making Greatsword a gold card. One is obviously bad news, but can be managed. Two of them is just a silly amount of points. These guys keep getting stronger with every expansion.

Making Greatswords a gold card is never going to happen... Because it already exists, its called Dagur and its even stronger, for +4 provisions.

A smart nerf to GS isnt easy - make it 7 provisions? currently i dont think there's any bronze unit at 7p (maybe ice giant? any other?)
- they made all SK cards do damage multiple times instead of a fixed amount like other factions precisely to support GS/Dagur archetypes, the problem is they gave them too much support, with really powerful cards, that usually play for way more than their provisions
- you see a GS, you feel an immediate threat and need to answer like it was a Damien or Skellen, the problem is even if you deal with it, it can be revived or another played
 
Just in regards to Greatswords specifically, it seems to me that most bronze engines are designed around the idea of generating a single point per turn when some condition is met.

What if Greatswords was changed to something like "If any enemy unit takes damage during your turn, boost self by 1." i.e. it could only boost by a single point in any one turn.

That would bring it into line with most other bronze engines. It would also make it more associated with decks that actively do damage to their enemy. Passive damage, like weather for example, which ticks on the opponents turn, would not trigger it.

Obviously its provision cost could be reduced slightly to compensate if necessary. The opposite row condition could also be removed.

Dagur as a gold card is probably ok as it is.
 
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Making Greatswords a gold card is never going to happen... Because it already exists, its called Dagur and its even stronger, for +4 provisions.

A smart nerf to GS isnt easy - make it 7 provisions? currently i dont think there's any bronze unit at 7p (maybe ice giant? any other?)
- they made all SK cards do damage multiple times instead of a fixed amount like other factions precisely to support GS/Dagur archetypes, the problem is they gave them too much support, with really powerful cards, that usually play for way more than their provisions
- you see a GS, you feel an immediate threat and need to answer like it was a Damien or Skellen, the problem is even if you deal with it, it can be revived or another played


This is why I think they should differentiate GS from Dagur more.(also you could argue Dagur is actually weaker because it's row locked)

I still think having a softcap for GS boost at like 10 or so where it gains vitality instead of boost after that point would be better. It would keep it from being a cure-all 30 point swing in 1 turn; which is where the card really exceeds what a bronze should be capable of.
 
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I think something has flew over the heads of a lot of posters on this thread. I'm not trying to be mean when I say this, but you need to realise CDPR are in the business of making money. That is priority number 1, 2 and 3. It's obvious from the way they design their cards, to how journey challenges were set-up, to even how pro players qualify for the Gwent Masters.

Many of you seem to think they were going to nerf more of the new cards etc.

They were never going to do that. This is a pay to win game guys.

It's pretty obvious the new cards are over powered. Here is the MO deck of one of the top 10 faction players.


Notice how they have just jammed every possible copy of the new MO cards into a deck and achieved a 70%+ win rate on pro rank...

And it's pretty obvious many SK, NG and NR players are doing exactly the same thing as well.

I'm relatively new to the game. This is my first expansion, but has there ever been an expansion where you could just include every new faction card in a deck with little thought and get incredible results ?

That should be a flashing red light.
 

DRK3

Forum veteran
I'm actually a little



This is why I think they should differentiate GS from Dagur more.(also you could argue Dagur is actually weaker because it's row locked)

I still think having a softcap for GS boost at like 10 or so where it gains vitality instead of boost after that point would be better. It would keep it from being a cure-all 30 point swing in 1 turn; which is where the card really exceeds what a bronze should be capable of.

Yeah, Dagur is only played on the Second wind play, to avoid such an easy counter has movement, while GS are played "willy nilly", even if countered, just do a cheap revive. I guess players figured a GS is enough for big swings and dont need Dagur, that's why i rarely see Dagurs on current SW lists.

And i agree GS could use a limit, but i dont agree with a softcap, merely because no other unit has it, it would be a new mechanic, complicating the game further, i expect new mechanics to be used more widely, so for this, they would need a more elegant change.
 
There are so many options to get the deathblow or bloodthirst how can you say it's not easy?
This is the only faction specific echo card that consistently tutors their evolve card and it's a measly 10 provisions, ridiculous. I have yet to see a Skellige player struggling to pull this card off, it's practically guaranteed. Not difficult at all.

I think you missed the point of the previous argument. It didn’t claim bloodthirst 3 is hard to pull off, it claimed it is hard to pull off in a timely fashion.

How difficult it is to pull off bloodthirst 3 is highly dependent upon both the deck your opponent plays and the deck you play (although if you take bloodthirst cards, it only makes sense to take cards to trigger it). But even with good damage potential, it is not trivial to obtain bloodthirst 3 against many boost decks and many consume decks.

To obtain bloodthirst 3 quickly is almost impossible. Assuming you start your round with 3 consecutive units damaging an enemy unit, and none of these units are killed or healed, then you have bloodthirst 3 on the fourth round. And this does not allow you time to develop any of your engines. Alternatively, you could use a mass damage card (something you might want to save until you can play GS) — but that still likely requires at least three round for your opponent to play units.

Deathblow is easier to set up quickly, but that is very hit and miss.
 

DRK3

Forum veteran
I'm relatively new to the game. This is my first expansion, but has there ever been an expansion where you could just include every new faction card in a deck with little thought and get incredible results ?

That should be a flashing red light.

That is literally every expansion in Gwent.
On Crimson Curse, Dethlaff was so OP he had to be hotfixed in 1 week (kinda like second wind now)
On Novigrad, Syndicate, just released, was so much stronger than other factions, only SK could kinda keep up
On Iron Judgment, ST dwarves become brainlessly OP, the only time where Novidgrad Justice was used with ME more than WoBrokilon... until the super nerf, not shortly after
And on Merchants of Ofir, Scenarios were absurdly strong, Radeyah and Matta on every deck, new poison cards everywhere...

So yeah, get used to it, this happens every expansion.
 
has there ever been an expansion where you could just include every new faction card in a deck with little thought and get incredible results ?

Try Spellcraft: Descent into Chaos. Every expansion (always a new faction) was almost perfectly balanced—no power creep. It is a game worthy of far more players than it ever received.

But this may prove your point — as excellent as the game is, Spellcraft never made money (or even broke even) and is virtually dead as a consequence.
 
In the strictest sense, yes, just like every other CCG. However, the "P2W scale", so to speak, is measured by how easy a F2P player can compete. And in that regard, Gwent is not pay to win.

I totally agree. I played a certain tavern based ccg since it came out and it took me years to build a decent collection.

I've been on Gwent for about 2 months now and with much less commitment I almost have my collection filled out. Gwent is very generous when it comes to f2p players. I do admit I couldn't help myself and I did buy packs for Master Mirror, but with all the other sets I'd say my collection is already 75% complete.

It only took like a week of Gwenting to build a deck that got me to pro rank. Focusing on one faction helps at first but it's hardly necessary especially between journey and the reward book.
 
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Some good changes here, but I disagree that Skellige's Second Wind needed a Nerf down to 11 provisions.
Yes, it ruins some of my favourite decks to play that I've spent months refining, but I don't think this was the nerf it needed.
As others have mentioned, limit it to bringing back a unit of 9 or less provisions, or maybe just a bronze card?

Actually, another idea might be to limit it to resurrecting a unit of 9 provisions maximum, but that maximum increases by 1 for every spare provision in the deck
e.g. Second Wind allows a total of 164 provision, but a 162 provision deck allows Second Wind to resurrect a 9+2=11 point card maximum.

Ach, well, there's no use crying over spilled Irn Bru - I guess I need to go back and think about my favourite decks.
There's fun to be had trying to fit them in to the new provisions.
 
O
In the strictest sense, yes, just like every other CCG. However, the "P2W scale", so to speak, is measured by how easy a F2P player can compete. And in that regard, Gwent is not pay to win.
"In that regard?" LOL I can't take you seriously any more with some of the nonsense you have been coming out with these last few weeks as arguments.

Of course this game is Pay to Win.
Premium Journey (Pay to Win)
Needing to have all the newest expansion cards to compete on pro ladder (Pay to Win)
All the newest expansion cards becoming auto include (Pay to Win)
Stealth nerfs to new player rewards to slow them down accumulating cards (Pay to Win)
Tell me what is the route for a relative new player to qualify for the Gwent Masters? (Pay to win)

Must be difficult to prevaricate so much. So I really should applaud you.

I imagine you can tell me next how many angels can stand on the head of a pin.
 
O

In that regard? LOL I can't take you seriously any more with some of the nonsense you have been coming out with these last few weeks as arguments.

Of course this game is Pay to Win.
Premium Journey (Pay to Win)
Needing to have all the newest expansion cards to compete on pro ladder (Pay to Win)
All the newest expansion cards becoming auto include (Pay to Win)
Stealth nerfs to new player rewards to slow them down accumulating cards (Pay to Win)
Tell me what is the route for a relative new player to qualify for the Gwent Masters? (Pay to win)

Must be difficult to prevaricate so much. So I really should applaud you.

I imagine you can tell me next how many angels can stand on the head of a pin.
Gwent is the most generous f2p game I have ever played, hands down. I got to pro rank within 2 weeks of downloading. AND I spent the first week just messing around figuring out how it was different from TW3 version xD
 
I totally agree. I played a certain tavern based ccg since it came out and it took me years to build a decent collection.

I've been on Gwent for about 2 months now and with much less commitment I almost have my collection filled out. Gwent is very generous when it comes to f2p players. I do admit I couldn't help myself and I did buy packs for Master Mirror, but with all the other sets I'd say my collection is already 75% complete.

It only took like a week of Gwenting to build a deck that got me to pro rank. Focusing on one faction helps at first but it's hardly necessary especially between journey and the reward book.
Yes you can build one competitive deck using scraps. That doesn't resolve the issue. Plus investing everything on one deck is a gamble come patch time.
Gwent is the most generous f2p game I have ever played, hands down. I got to pro rank within 2 weeks of downloading. AND I spent the first week just messing around figuring out how it was different from TW3 version xD
Please read my arguments again. I appreciate you managed to get to pro rank with one deck. But unfortunately that doesn't resolve any of the arguments I put forward.

Really, your experience getting to pro rank, though I applaud your achievement. Well done! Is not that strong an argument when a lot of players experienced with CCG could have joined the game, crafted the SK deck and already be in Pro Ranks in the last 7 days. Then what? The same could be done with Mystic Echo last meta.

This is my 3rd month, up until yesterday I had a 100% record with my MO insects deck at pro rank. Putting me in top 10 faction player listings in the game. Does that make my opinion any more valid than other peoples? No, it doesn't.

But I think it's important to factor in I achieved that whilst also being guilty of being a Pay to Win player. I purchased Throne Breaker, and Premium Journey.

Also note, the stealth nerf took effect this update, so you were uneffected.
 
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Of course this game is Pay to Win.

And yet you dodged the main point. Gwent being pay to win is completely irrelevant. Why? Because pretty much every CCG is pay to win. So, why single out Gwent? Instead, compare Gwent to other CCG. Then it actually means something. In the past, I would have said that Gwent was the most generous CCG, which says enough.

More importantly, it's not fair to put Gwent Masters as the goal to reach. Actually, quite the opposite, it's completely flawed because, ironically, skill actually starts to matter more. Yes, do still need 4 decks, but that really isn't the barrier that's keeping people away (or down). No, getting into pro-rank should be the indicator.

[...] any more with some of the nonsense you have been coming out with these last few weeks as arguments.

Oi, you cannot just thrown down a blanket statement like that without examples.
 
Yes you can build one competitive deck using scraps. That doesn't resolve the issue. Plus investing everything on one deck is a gamble come patch time.

Please read my arguments again. I appreciate you managed to get to pro rank with one deck. But unfortunately that doesn't resolve any of the arguments I put forward.

Really, your experience getting to pro rank, though I applaud your achievement. Well done! Is not that strong an argument when a lot of players experienced with CCG could have joined the game, crafted the SK deck and already be in Pro Ranks in the last 7 days. Then what? The same could be done with Mystic Echo last meta.

This is my 3rd month, up until yesterday I had a 100% record with my MO insects deck at pro rank. Putting me in top 10 faction player listings in the game. Does that make my opinion any more valid than other peoples? No, it doesn't.

But I think it's important to factor in I achieved that whilst also being guilty of being a Pay to Win player. I purchased Throne Breaker, and Premium Journey.

Also note, the stealth nerf took effect this update, so you were uneffected.
You missed the part about how I said it was easy to build up your whole collection rather quickly.

Plus I made it to pro rank using Meme shupe decks so you don't have to just play the FOTM or top meta cards to compete if you play smart
 
You missed the part about how I said it was easy to build up your whole collection rather quickly.

Plus I made it to pro rank using Meme shupe decks so you don't have to just play the FOTM or top meta cards to compete if you play smart
I think you will find it is currently very difficult for players who have joined this month to enjoy the gains you and I enjoyed recently regarding our collections.

My issue is that I have seen with every move that CDPR has made with this game, in only the 3 months I have been playing, a move deeper and deeper into monetisation, and pushing people toward buying lootboxes (with real money) to keep up. And yet I keep being told how generous this game is/WAS to new players, like that is some kind of excuse for predatory monetisation.

So whilst I appreciate it WAS the most generous CCG game, I am not sure that harkening back to the halceon days ever more is ample succour for the new (hopefully expanding) player base. Whilst I realise I shouldn't direct such criticism directly to you though.

Again, I congratulate you on your achievement. My MO deck is also homebrew.
Let's have a hug.
 
You missed the part about how I said it was easy to build up your whole collection rather quickly.

Plus I made it to pro rank using Meme shupe decks so you don't have to just play the FOTM or top meta cards to compete if you play smart
Well, to be fair, Shupe is not necessarily a "meme" deck. Shupe and Radeyah are incredible cards and the "no duplicates" requirement this side of beta is just laughable. Ohh, so you can't use bonded cards, hardcore.
 
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