House Shotgun Rules.

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House Shotgun Rules.

One thing that bugged me the most about FNFF since I first read it at age 10 was the lack of functioning shotgun rules. What is presented in FNFF is both broken and too Hollywood. Below I present a wall of text to vent my frustrations with the system and show how I solved these problems.

Problem 1. Spread.
The spread on any shotgun is 1m at short(12.5m), 2m at medium(25m), and 3m at long range(50m) with any pellets and choke. While I accept that these rules were meant to be simple, they just don't represent any real shot spread shy of super cut down shotguns which in turn have their own ranges and pattern rules (nobody likes you Crusher SSG! Not even your mum!). Your typical combat shotgun has an 18-20 inch barrel and an open choke.The spread from a combat shotgun firing 00 defensive shot is about 1" for every 10feet (or 1" for every 3m). To reach a 1m. spread (~39in), that short barreled shotgun has to be firing at a target about 390 feet or 130meters To achieve the full 3m. spread a range of almost 400meters is needed, which rifle range. Shot barely carries energy past 50meters, this is pure Hollywood.

Fix: Splashy spread.
Spread is a nasty thing to face as a target, its harder to avoid being hit by nine to fifteen 32 caliber chunks of lead then it is to avoid one slug , but it isn't a door filling cloud of death. Instead of an AoE, the damage of the shot is divided by range and applied to multiple adjacent locations, representing the potential of a shot to cover more then one location. This reduces the effectiveness against armor at a range, but also accurately represents armors ability to soak up lots of small projectiles (even class IIA body armor is rated for buck shot).
At point blank, maximum damage is applied to one location, like any other gun.
At short range, rolled damage is applied to one location. At 13m. a combat shotgun only has a spread of 4".
At Medium range, rolled damage is divided by 2, and location is rolled, results of a limb (head counts as a limb) cause the second grouping to hit the torso otherwise a second roll is made. If both shots hit the torso, damage is added together as one hit.
At Long range, rolled damage is divided by 3 and applied to a rolled location, if a limb is hit, the second grouping strikes torso and the third is rolled. If first group hits torso, the second is rolled; if second is a limb apply third to torso, otherwise roll third. Its hard to keep a 15" pattern inside a persons core. As above, multiple damage rolls applied to the same location add together.
As usual, intervening terrain/people that provide cover to a location hit take the damage instead.

Problem 2: All the autofire rules.
This was my biggest issue, its a giant pile of mess. According to the rules you roll to hit for each shot, taking 2 off your roll for each shot after the first (-8 for 5 shots) but that shots must be within 1m of the last shot, and patterns (seem to but it is never directly stated) place hit or miss. This means that someone firing a high rate shotgun like the Hurricane or Ragnarok are taking up to 38 points off of 20 rolls creating an impossible mess and huge pile of rolls. The example given in the book states that the shots still place despite the roll (Ripper Jack placed his shots 1m apart, turning the 5meters of hallway into hamburger heaven). If the shots still place and create an area of effect, why roll to hit? If you roll to hit, how can your shot automatically place? Do the shots scatter like grenades? This is never stated. It makes slightly more sense if your auto-firing slugs, since they don't place and create an AoE, but if that's the case then nobody would use an auto-shotgun because who the hell can hit with a -38 to their roll even with a +2 for firing 20 rounds in short range or less?! Even if you do hit, the odds you have more than 1 shot land are slightly above the odds that someone will roll a solo with ref as its dump stat. I don't even want to math hammer it.
MATH HAMMER
Using a high end solo with a ref and rifle of 10 each and a smart/target linked hurricane shotgun we have an attack roll of 23+d10. Firing a full burst from the shotgun at minimum range generates a penalty of -36 (-38 for shots fired, +2 for 20 round burst). At this point the solo would need to ambush the target (+5) and roll a 10 to get a roll of 2, which is 8 shy of hitting at point blank. On a 20 round burst you would normally see 2 10's rolled, which reroll and add the result to the 10, so out of 20 rounds 2 have a 20% chance of hitting someone our solo is standing right fucking behind. Meanwhile firing two shots (rof is 2/20) generates a -2 to the 23+d10+5. You would have to fumble to miss.

Fix: New rules entirely!
With the removal of shotgun AoE the rule fix becomes much easier. Treat auto-shotguns like any other auto-fire weapon. After some testing it was determined that the procedure had to be modified for the lower rate of fire that shotguns have. Realistically it would be easier to hit anything with an auto-shotgun than with an SMG at the same range (precision not being a factor) since pattern spread does make it easier to hit (though not as easy as pointing towards enemy and shouting 'Alan Bourdillion Trahern!')
Burst Fire.
Given that regular auto fire is 10 rounds per point of modifier, giving a typical range for SMG's and rifles of +1 to +4, dividing the number of rounds required to gain bonus by 2 generated the same range with the shotguns in game. In essence 5 rounds for every modifier (as opposed to the+2 available for the fastest shotgun not used by cyborgs under normal rules). Since this creates a potentially high MoS with a lower output of rounds, it was deemed necessary to give an additional round hit for every 2 points of Margin of Success (round to screw) instead of one. Apply spread as per range.
Cover Fire.
Using the same process as above, if you take the number of rounds fired, divide it by the space covered in meters, and multiply that by 2 you have a workable if not somewhat less effective set of cover rules. Given that the number of rounds required to reach a difficulty rating is now half what it is for a regular cover fire shot, the number of hits on a failed roll should be 1d6/2. its easier to get past so few rounds, but if you get hit you are fucked. Apply spread as per range.
3-round burst.
If you can find a damned shotgun that can do 3 roundies, then really you deserve your +3 at sht/med 1d6/2 number of hits. There are three of them, only one directly states it can do 3 roundies. Apply spread as per range. You monster.

Problem 3: Shotgun AP
I don't think Maximum Mike Pondsmith actually knows what a slug is, or in the future all slugs are sabotted fin stabilized pieces of tech swag. Traditional shotgun slugs are simply big fucking plugs of lead, usually with a lightly rounded business end and rifling cut into the sides so that air pressure in the barrel causes it to spin, imparting some amount of stability. When fired from a smooth bore they fly fairly well up to 100m. but when fired from a rifled barrel (an option for almost all production model shotguns. On the list of things for me to buy for my 88) the round can be accurate at up to 300m (hello new sniper rifle).
By the rules, soft armor is cut in half, along with the slugs damage. Hard armor is cut in half, but damage is full. I can kind of see the point to this. Soft armor absorbs kinetic energy and spreads it through several layers of cloth, hard armor ablates the energy, forcing the round to strike off (or in the case of ceramics, absorbs the energy completely shattering in the process). Damage can penetrate soft armor without breaking it, the concussive force causing harm, but not a fatal wound (most energy absorbed by the multiple layers of cloth like a net). Hard armor either deflects the shot, or it punches through, turning the metal armor into shrapnel and causing the massive wound that getting bitch slapped by hunk of lead can do. My problem with this is that ANY heavy enough slug should have this effect. The kinds of slugs put out by some sniper rifles in CP 2020 are on par with a shotgun slug, and even some very heavy handguns put out huge (though smaller) chunks of lead at such speed as to carry comparable kinetic value. Having fired slugs through hard and soft targets I can say a shotgun slug could probably punch Metal Gear and cause severe injury. On the other hand most armor vests get obliterated by a 12 ga slug too.
Ultimately the penetrative value of a shotgun slug is represented by the huge amount of damage it does. The differences between a 12 ga slug and a comparable size bullet is minimal. If anything shot slugs should simply be armor defeating(AD), doing full damage after AP no matter what if the physics of it deem that the slug can punch out any armor.

Fix: Slugs are Bullets! *edited*
A slug is a bullet, just a really huge one. As such it does a profound amount of damage, but shouldn't cause any amount of armor penetration then any other chunk of lead that does as much damage. On the other hand, since a slug is just a bullet, it means slugs can be made into specialty rounds at listed price modifiers like any other bullet. You want AP? Buy AP slugs.


Ideas?
 
TLDR:
Damage at point blank applied as any other gun.
Damage at short applied to one location.
Damage at medium rolled then divided by 2, applied to rolled location and torso if limb/head, torso and a second roll if torso (double torso added together).
Damage at long and Ex rolled then divided by 3, applied to limb, torso, and roll; or torso roll and torso; or torso, torso, and roll. Multiple hits to same location added together.
Burst fire is +/-1 for every 5 rounds at short range, number of hits = MOS/2 round to shaft. spread as per range.
Cover fire is #rounds divided by area, then multiplied by 2 for diff to pass through unharmed. Number of hits for failing roll 1d6/2 spread by range. *edited for accuracy*
3-round burst is unaffected. Spread damage as per range.
Slugs are regular bullets made for smooth bore guns. No special AP, but can be made into specialty ammo like normal bullets. *edited*
 
"I don't think Maximum Mike Pondsmith actually knows what a slug is, or in the future all slugs are sabotted fin stabilized pieces of tech swag. "

Eyebrow raise.
 
You are taking a really long and convoluted path to overcome a pretty small issue...

Ths is how IU handles it... keep in mind that IU uses additional sublocations, determined by D6, in addition to the standard d10 location table.

Shotguns fire a cloud of small metal pellets called a
"pattern". The width of the pattern is based on the distance
between the attacker and the defender. Any target in a straight path
between attacker and intended target is also considered to be in the
area of effect. Note: if something is between the path of the
shotgun and its intended target, the intervening spaces behind that
object are considered to be exempt from the effects of fire.
Buckshot however, is extremely ineffective against armor, and
treats it as having 50% more SP. For a standard 12 .ga :

Close/PB: 4d6
Medium 3D6
Long: 2D6

Due to the spread of pellets from a standard
shotgun round, shotguns get a +1 at Close
range, +2 at medium range, +4 at long
range, and +5 at extreme. This only counts
towards standard shotgun rounds, Sabot, stun, slug, etc... rounds
are treated as normal. Specialty rounds are subject to GM
discretion. At medium range and extreme range, a shotgun hit will
hit 2 main locations locations. At Close range it will hit 2
sublocations. Roll once for location, the apply equal damage to that
location and one location adjacent
 
Doesn't sound much different from what I set up, except that the pattern I went with doesn't discriminate based on damage so its easily scaled to any shotgun. I don't throw sub locations in because its hard enough for uninitiated players to keep track of. The other option for spread was just roll locations randomly but it kept coming up with things like one arm, opposite leg, and head. Otherwise using splash like I use for directed explosives (hit location and all adjacent locations) really made spread too big 3-7 times.
 
I have to admit I abused Shotgun rules when I was playing my Solo.
I have to say it saved my characters tail a few times too.

There are issues with it, spread main issue.
I like your rules setup at this moment none of my players characters even carry a shotgun.
 
See, this is where too much of the maths gets in the way of the fun. The few players who had shotguns in my campaigns simply got autokills on unarmored targets at point blank (or at least a death save), and plusses to hit at longer ranges, as that's what shotguns are for, at least as far as I can tell.

Still, for those who like specificity with their rulesets, all I can say is enjoy trying to model life's rich tapestry in math form, and I thank you for your services in pointing out broken or at least problematic rulesets. At least we can all agree that CP2020 works far better than Dungeons & Elfqueens. You want a really broken system for firearms, FASA can deliver!
 
Skip to the white bolded Section for explanations.

V3RT's Shotgun Homerules (Version 1.5):
Buckshot/Slugs Damage:
410 - 3d6
28g - 4d6
20g - 5d6
16g - 6d6
12g - 7d6
10g - 8d6
8g - 9d6
4g - 10d6

Damage decreases by 1d6 for each range, starting at point blank (max damage)

"If the shot misses, reroll to hit, and if it meets the target based on range, it does half damage to the same location. Do not roll a spread hit if it already hits normally."

Spread hits are half damage.
Slugs get no spread hit, and can be purchased like special munitions (AP, DP, Explosive, etc.)

Spread Hit Options:

A: Spread hits count as one level of difficulty lower than a normal hit (-5) unless point blank (min 10)

B: Spread hits automatically if the attack roll is >5, even if it is a normal miss

C: Spread hits reroll a d10 based on range target number
-Point Blank: <1
-Short: <3
-Medium: <5
-Long: <7
-Extreme: <5

A sawed off barrel reduces range from 50m to 40m, or -20%.

Buckshot:
Soft Armor - Normal Damage
Hard Armor - Half Damage

Slugs:
Soft Armor - AP Damage
Hard Armor - Normal Damage

Note: AP Slugs act as AP against hard and soft armor, but do not increase AP value against soft armor


Explanations and Rulings:
Shotguns in base CP 2020 have absurd spread, and under normal circumstances will really only hit one limb at house to house distances. In addition, shotguns in 2020 are much weaker than they should be. The only explanation I can offer for this is that shotgun munitions are only birdshot now and were never 'upgraded' like brass to caseless munitions... but this in itself is a nonsensical excuse.

To make up for this, and doing the math, 12g shotgun should do roughly 7d6 damage at point blank, if we compare it to other contemporary rounds and their damage in game versus real ballistic kinetic energy. For the sake of simplification, munitions in the future between slugs and buckshot are equal in total mass, meaning the kinetic energy and muzzle velocity remains very similar.

As far as I'm concerned, the reasoning for slugs being treated as AP, is due to the incredible physical trauma of being hit by one... even if soft armor "stops" the round, it will turn your ribcage into shrapnel inside your body, and on top of that can punch 3in (more or less) deep into your torso, without "penetrating" the armor. That's relevant, because that trauma is directly hitting your heart... and don't think I should have to explain why that's bad. Buckshot is much less of an issue, but still may cause internal bleeding due to bruising.

So, Slugs naturally are AP against soft armor ONLY in my ruling. Contemporary AP slugs work much like SABOTS, often using a submunition in a light casing or polymer mold to increase velocity. This increases penetration, but leaves a smaller wound channel which, for the sake of simplification, the overall damage past soft armor would be very similar.

I have created three ways to integrate non-direct hits, called spread hits. These are essentially the chance for part of the "spread" of the pattern to hit and deal a portion of damage which in two out of the three examples are based on range. I prefer option C, as I think its the most balanced/realistic representation of how spread works based on both my own experience shooting shotguns and other's as well.


Option:
Full-Auto Shotguns have +1 per 5 shots fired, but require 2 points for each hit. In addition, they will take half as many (rounded down) spread hits, up to the amount of shells missed. This is if you'd like to avoid rolling a large number of d10s to see how many partial hits the enemy takes.
 
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