How can anyone trust Reed (or the Prez) after that first event?

[koalahugs]

"overthinking" might not be the right word. But I mean searching a "sick/hidden" purpose for a simple shard which for me don't have any other purpose than providing players some infos if they willing to search a bit. Like the one in the Arasaka tower, this shard have no other purpose than providing infos to players who make the effort to search a little or like all "archived conversation" shards in the world (the area where you can find them is not revelant in any way for me).

Dude, you are trying way too hard to shoot this down. I'm not even suggesting anything particularly deep. It's just about enjoying and noticing the nuances and details of a spy thriller story. That's it.

It's open to interpretation. You're supposed to interpret and speculate on these things. That's part of the fun of it. Dismissing all of that as mere "overthinking" just feels to me like a killjoy response and really takes for granted the thought and care CDPR put into the details of the game.

I guarantee you, CDPR didn't design that Dogtown apartment haphazardly; there is thought and intention behind every element of it.

So again, if you search a "sick/hidden" purpose for the shard, sure, we don't know what happened to Jacob and Taylors and might consider them dead... But for me, the shard have for sole purpose to provide infos, so Jacob and Taylors got paid and so, are alive somewhere.

You're naive for thinking they're alive based purely on Myers' notes. Which, again, she conveniently leaves behind on top of the desk.

That shard, in combination with Reed saying, "They've been taken care of. No need to worry about them anymore", heavily implies they've been zeroed. But we also don't know for sure - and that's the beauty of the writing! Things are deliberately implied and left vague and you're forced to read between the lines.

Again, It's a spy thriller. Reading between the lines is exactly what you're supposed to be doing. You're supposed to be questioning these things. You're supposed to second-guess who these people are. The way they've written the story is to make you paranoid and trust no one and that's kinda the whole point.

Making players thinking that Mayers is a good person, when players likely already know she's not, is a bit too much (for me).
- Songbird make it clear in the exhibition hall before the fight with the Chimera (if you make the effort to interact with the "art works").
- She suggested to kill Jacob and Taylors at first (before even talking to them).
- She set Reed up, 7 years ago for the good of the NUSA.
Come on, who can still possibly think she's a good person at this point... But as bad as she could be, it doesn't mean she killed the two guys.

"Making players think that Myers is a good person"? No, I'm saying, "Myers is trying to make V think she's a good person".

Listen, this really isn't that complicated. Here's how simple it is: Myers is a character. She's written to behave in ways that's in her character to do. That's basically it.

All I was suggesting, is that it would be in her character to be strategic and "forget" to take her notes with her, in order for V to find them. As a planted form of subtle manipulation. Am I saying that's what's definitely happened? No. Am I saying it wouldn't be surprising if that's exactly what's happened? Abso-fucking-lutely. I bet she did. She's a calculating and shrewd puppet-master.

It make me think the same as some who search "weird" theories like the one in which Judy is a "bad person", that she tried to kill V with the BD in the Lizzie (i.e searching "weird schemes" where there is likely none).

Oh come off it, this isn't a "weird" theory and that is absolutely not the same thing and you know it.

Nope, just to point out I "cordially/happily" disagree or argue. Nothing negative (maybe a bad use^^).

Okay, because I've tried giving the benefit of the doubt before but it can honestly came across as patronising and snide a lot of the time (even during a friendly debate) - good to know in future though

 

[LeKill3rFou]

You're naive for thinking they're alive based purely on Myers' notes. Which, again, she conveniently leaves behind on top of the desk.

Maybe I'm naive...
The difference between us I guess, it's I consider the shard as information let by devs for players (like many shards in the game) while you consider it as a note left here for V intentional by Myers.
So obviously, for me it's simply means that Jacob and Taylors get paid and so, are alive. While for you, well I assume it's more suspicious.

Beside, for me Reed had good reason to kill Slayers (he is aware about the FIA, Songbird and the fact she pierced the black wall) and the twins (they're a key point of the next step and keeping them alive represent a risk he's not wiling to take), while, personally I don't see any "good" reason for Reed/Myers to kill Jacob and Taylors (they know and saw Myers at some point, but that's all...)

But again, even with Jacob and Taylor alive, it doesn't mean Reed is trustworthy

 

[Jones2046]

I never trust Reed and Songbird, I don't have to. V just needs the cure, not making new friends in a shitty place like Dogtown, or even the Night City. The DLC ending(s) says it all.

 

[NakedRenegade]

I never trusted Reed or Alex and was furious that I couldn't put a bullet in Alex's head at the end after they killed the twins. I didn't really trust Songbird, but identified with her and felt sorry because she was in the same situation as I was. Wanted to help her get away from the NUSA and being used as Myers weapon.

 

[VdaNetrunner]

I don’t trust anyone.
sidenote: I played the game entirely and I didn’t go for the cure. The fear, terrified, my Fem V expressed was felt. The reality is no one can’t predict the future. I did what I had to do to pick Nomad ending for at least you have Panam and friends with you, leaving all what’s left behind.

 

[koalahugs]

Beside, for me Reed had good reason to kill Slayers (he is aware about the FIA, Songbird and the fact she pierced the black wall) and the twins (they're a key point of the next step and keeping them alive represent a risk he's not wiling to take), while, personally I don't see any "good" reason for Reed/Myers to kill Jacob and Taylors (they know and saw Myers at some point, but that's all...)

But again, even with Jacob and Taylor alive, it doesn't mean Reed is trustworthy

We can agree to disagree on the other stuff, but otherwise yes, the fact he has logical (yet morally bankrupt) reasons for killing the twins is, again, why he isn't trustworthy. That was my point all along though.

Not sure he killed Slider though? My impression is that he just didn't give a shit that he died?

 

[LeKill3rFou]

We can agree to disagree on the other stuff, but otherwise yes, the fact he has logical (yet morally bankrupt) reasons for killing the twins is, again, why he isn't trustworthy. That was my point all along though.

Yes, indeed we can

Not sure he killed Slider though? My impression is that he just didn't give a shit that he died?

He didn't in reality, it's the connexion through the black wall.
But if I remember (from memories^^):
- When you say = "Oh Sliders didn't survive, it's because of us!" Reed answer something like = "Why, you feel bad for him? He's a murderer, a scumbag, bla,..."
- Then you can also continue "You always intended to kill him, did you?" Reed answer = "Why asking? it doesn't matter anymore..."

So I pretty confident with what Slayers is aware about (Reed, Myers, Songbird who use/used the black wall for the FIA,...), he never intended to let him go alive anyway. If it wasn't the black wall which killed Slayers, he would have killed him himself like he does with the twins.

 

[tavellone]

Sorry if this was clarified, but I noticed a bunch of personal arguments about what is ultimately about a bunch of characters in a video game so I skipped through most of the previous posts, but I have to ask: which friends? The two guys who come to the apartment where V takes Myers? Because I blew them away and dumped their asses down the trash chute and I didn't even do it for Myers I just thought they were being some cocky dickheads who were trying to be smart, so I can't really blame Reed for doing his job and getting rid of any potential witnesses, even if I never cared about Myers or helping the NUSA for any reason other than being promised a cure.

 

[MartineDee]

I never trusted Reed or Alex and was furious that I couldn't put a bullet in Alex's head at the end after they killed the twins.

On this and the other occasion when that duo stumbles upon Myers and me, it showed that I am incredibly chill with the way FIA operates. That with the twins was swift and brutal, which left the impression, even though it shouldn't have. I left countless corpses behind me already and am on a few orders of magnitude beyond any of the FIA's finest by the body count left behind.

What may seem special to players is that V actually got to know the twins, and has seen them alive and happy, which makes it harder to watch their swift and brutal demise.

In a second, my opinion on it settled at: "good riddance."

I'm out to replace Adam in NC after all, but the twins weren't exactly saints either. They knew the risks of the trade too. I'm in fact pleased by how smooth Reed and Alex did their part. Tho, Reed couldn't even look his victim in the eye, which makes my guts a bit queasy. He is a total softie.

And... That just sounded like someone else: "(...) Disgusting. Mercy is disgusting."

 

[Jones2046]

I don't care about how the twins were killed. V has been a mass murderer from day one anyway, why would he/she care?

 

[MartineDee]

I don't care about how the twins were killed. V has been a mass murderer from day one anyway, why would he/she care?

From 2.x on.
Before that, there was nice cyberware mod to render attacks non-lethal. Only a few people really died from my V.