How do characters feel about Doll Chips?? [SPOILERS] + [TRIGGER WARNING]

[Ayinde_Palmer]

People are missing the forest for the trees here.

The work dolls do and the doll chip process is bad.

The fact that everyone accepts it is what makes it devastating.

If people in the game were talking about how awful it was, we wouldn't have the dystopian world of Night City. The point is that no one cares. That is the message, and what the devs have shown us (over and over again for many things) over the course of the game.

well, I did say that aways back, but the OP said they should have made it more clear that the wrong was the existence/use of the chips itself and not the thing that happened to Evelyn.

But I think that whether you think the chip itself is wrong goes to how you perceive freedom and contractual consent. The game presents the situation, and leaves it up to the player to determine, but it does show regardless of what you perceive, it commonly leads to bad outcomes for the dolls. Installing the chip itself is a risk, the chip has a hi fail rate, and the fails are not good for the person.

So I think its also an implied question, should society allow people to gamble their minds, sign away their bodies, time, memories and a piece of themselves, and the ability to protest, knowing that the very nature of the system is prone to abuse?

And this type of option will always also primarily target people with less options, and greater pressure to accept exploitation.

on the other side, the freedom to choose to be completely exploited.

 

[GogRelvas]

It is surprising that they seem to work mostly in the Sex Industry given how easily they could jump around specialist roles. One minute the Doll could be in Accounting the next minute in the Warehouse doing maintence on Forklifts, Delivery vehicles etc and then go do building maintence. They dont even need breaks and are barely considered Human. You could have Dolls working 16 hour Shifts without breaks and poor pay.
Why are the Greedy corporations not taking advantage of such a labour supply that could fill any role that is needed? If Judy can make Kung Fu Dolls surely the Corps could do the same for any purpose they need.


I believe there still needs to be a balance to this dystopia, otherwise people WOULD revolt. There's a shard about best megacorporations you can work for. One advertises like 3 payed days off a year. So the conditions people subject to need to be felt reasonable by the majority so maybe megacorporations are setting the stage for what you describe in 2090 maybe?

 

[Jetro30087]

So I think its also an implied question, should society allow people to gamble their minds, sign away their bodies, time, memories and a piece of themselves, and the ability to protest, knowing that the very nature of the system is prone to abuse?

I would say the other side would be 'should there be freedom to exploit others?' Should society allow technology that empowers individuals to exploit their more vulnerable members?

You could argue that the doll chip and contract are analogues for the indentured servitude practices common in the 1800's. Many of those practices were done away with because there was no way to reconcile the 'freedom' to choose servitude and the abuse of the workers by those who created the contracts.

 

[koalahugs]

well, I did say that aways back, but the OP said they should have made it more clear that the wrong was the existence/use of the chips itself and not the thing that happened to Evelyn.

That's not what I said, lol. Wording matters.

 

[Milfguard2077]

wasn't Evelyn attacked by the voodoo's or arasaka? i thought it didnt have anything to do with chip, it was an attack

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

wasn't Evelyn attacked by the voodoo's or arasaka? i thought it didnt have anything to do with chip, it was an attack

VDBs ruined her emotion chip, but if you investigate the incident, and based on Judy's opinion. She actually becomes catatonic, and doesn't respond to surgery, because of psychological trauma.

When vdbs fired her chip the Tiger claws got scared she might be cyberpsycho or a hassle to deal with. Woodman then took her for himself while she was chip zapped for a couple days and did what Judy described as horrible things. Maiko/management realized he was messing things up/mishandling it, and it was effecting other doll's performance. They wanted the situation taken care of(Evelyn killed) Woodman then realized he may get in trouble, and maybe didnt want to kill her, so he took her to Finger's who finally replaced/fixed her chip. But she was still unresponsive. He then abandons her to fingers, who calls wakako to take an unresponsive high end doll off his hands. Wakako sells her to scavs who scroll snuff and other types of BDs and who knows what else.


After Judy checks out her tech, she realizes that nothing was physically wrong with her body or tech.


So basically the entire doll system screwed her over. If they had taken her to a ripper doc of Finger's level or higher initially, she would likely have eventually recovered, maybe not the same as initially, but not catatonic as she became, and suicidal. And its implied that this type of thing is not that abnormal for dolls. Skye mentioned sometimes customers go too far, Woodman, its implied took advantage of other dolls (maybe not exactly the same way, but who knows) The management made killing a troublesome doll sound like the normal solution, I think they said to recycle her. Fingers has other insane dolls, and joytoys living in his building that he was unable to cure

so overall, its implied the doll system as a whole chews up and spits out people in general. Even though its presented as the high class version.

 

[SigilFey]

I think if there was clear attempt to make the doll chip seem terrible, then it's limited to that database and maybe the note Robotic_Onion mentioned. It went right over my head the first time I played. It wasn't until I read the database that I did a double take and realised, "oh, that makes it even worse... but then why aren't the characters bothered by it, if they're bothered by everything else?".

So if the game was trying to make it clear that the doll chip is this terrible thing, to me it seemed overly reliant on having read that piece of info. I had no idea from the way the characters behave. Obviously the game makes it clear that working at Clouds is bad for other reasons; not sure about this one though.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's because CDPR just didn't see it as a negative thing - or maybe they did but it was low on their list of priorities or something, who knows

Oh, no, I would strongly disagree, and I would argue that the entire premise of that scene was heavily loaded, nuanced, and carefully delivered -- especially if the player chooses the option to use the "safe word". When the prostitute emerges from the trance, she's angry. "You pulled me out of it!" She also, very, very clearly has no idea what was happening, what was said, or who we are.

This very direct reaction alone says something simple and irrefutable: She does not want to be there.

So, the deeper connotation is that she is willing to sell her body and risk whatever happening to her, and is not even going to face the actual act of it, preferring to let it all happen while she is blissfully unaware of the reality. There's no part of this that is presented in a "comforting" way.

Then, we have mention that stuff sometimes happens to the dolls or the customers. Management hushes it up. The JoyGirls and JoyBoys are treated like commodities, as we see clearly with Evelyn. As the post just above mentions:

So basically the entire doll system screwed her over. If they had taken her to a ripper doc of Finger's level or higher initially, she would likely have eventually recovered, maybe not the same as initially, but not catatonic as she became, and suicidal. And its implied that this type of thing is not that abnormal for dolls.

Therefore, I'd say the themes, characters, and overall tone surrounding the dolls is incredibly dark. I'd argue that there's absolutely nothing about the game or the universe that's meant to show how anything in this future got "better". I'd find it very difficult to make an argument that the doll chips are improving life for prostitutes in any way -- not without specifically omitting truckloads of context that is very strongly established.

In a sense, a regular JoyBoy/Girl in CP would know what they're doing, be conscious during the act, able to at least manage things and defend themselves, and would then need to deal with the physical and psychological aspects of the lifestyle. A doll simply blinks out of consciousness. When they come out of it, they may be perfectly fine with no idea of what happened to their body...they may find themselves staring at a complete stranger lying in a bed with them with no idea of what was just happening...or they may find themselves chained to a pipe in the darkness holding their intestines in with their own hands and taking their last, few breaths. That's all assuming the tech doesn't backfire and fry their minds altogether. I'd argue there's no part of this that doesn't make prostitution even worse.

 

[Milfguard2077]

there are some seriously heavy sexual crimes in the game, like the BD file for the Father/Son black market BD ring with clearly awful statements, "rape, murder, torture" in reference to what is done to a preachers son. or the file that says "children/forced" under the BD listing. The information on the actual human traffic and black market recordings done at the ho-ho club by jotaro, where states he wants non-professional people as his human sex slaves because he wants to break them himself, he enjoys hurting people. I think CDPR didnt shy away from blatantly awful topics that have direct parallels to crimes recording in modern history. With that in mind, I don't think the doll chip needs much reading into, if they wanted to present it as a directly horrific thing they would have. Not taking a stand on clouds and dolls being moral/legal in anyway, but if they wanted to present it as a violation of human rights they would have, how they don't hesitate to make it clear with what Woodman does to her

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

there are some seriously heavy sexual crimes in the game, like the BD file for the Father/Son black market BD ring with clearly awful statements, "rape, murder, torture" in reference to what is done to a preachers son. or the file that says "children/forced" under the BD listing. The information on the actual human traffic and black market recordings done at the ho-ho club by jotaro, where states he wants non-professional people as his human sex slaves because he wants to break them himself, he enjoys hurting people. I think CDPR didnt shy away from blatantly awful topics that have direct parallels to crimes recording in modern history. With that in mind, I don't think the doll chip needs much reading into, if they wanted to present it as a directly horrific thing they would have. Not taking a stand on clouds and dolls being moral/legal in anyway, but if they wanted to present it as a violation of human rights they would have, how they don't hesitate to make it clear with what Woodman does to her

I disagree, most of the bad things that happen and occur in cyberpunk never have someone telling you its bad. The only reason we are exposed to this is because Judy blames Woodman. No one else we meet particularly is concerned. Maiko is woodman's boss, and she doesn't care much. And Judy isn't the perfect barometer of good and evil, she doesn't even realize maiko is just as bad.

Outside of this issue, we never see the game tell you what they think on anything, they just show the world and the results. Its up to the player to be like.... hm.... this might not be good. most times.

 

[SigilFey]

I disagree, most of the bad things that happen and occur in cyberpunk never have someone telling you its bad. The only reason we are exposed to this is because Judy blames Woodman. No one else we meet particularly is concerned. Maiko is woodman's boss, and she doesn't care much. And Judy isn't the perfect barometer of good and evil, she doesn't even realize maiko is just as bad.

Outside of this issue, we never see the game tell you what they think on anything, they just show the world and the results. Its up to the player to be like.... hm.... this might not be good. most times.

I think that's largely the point of the whole universe. To them...the characters within the CP world...it's not bad. It's normal, day-to-day life. I mean, even during the intro sequence, they're celebrating Night City's culture of corruption, murder, violence, depravity. This is what life has become.

The intended effect is to be equally shocking, repulsive, and...alluring. "Alluring" because we, as an audience, are safely removed from that potential reality to simply explore it at our leisure through suspension of disbelief. This is why "dark" literature is often really enjoyable -- because we're safe.

But, if we were ever faced with the actual realities depicted in the game, I'm not sure we'd see anyone clamoring with eagerness to engage in such a world and lifestyle. Not for very long, anyway.

 

[Liquidcyberpunk]

This is a great analysis on your part, but these characters in my perspective were always selfish in accomplishing their goals because... that's just how people are. Which to me, made it feel more real and Night city isn't a nice place.

 

[CTPhipps]

I think it's kind of funny how people are reacting to this who have only encountered this through Cyberpunk 2077 because the entire concept of the Doll Chip is actually one huge homage to classic cyberpunk literature. It's sort of like if you were outraged by finding a bunch of Clones hunted by the police for escaping slavery or discovering humans being used as batteries in a Virtual Reality simulation.



The doll chips are an homage to Molly Millions in NEUROMANCER and pretty much the entirety of the plotline with her and Evelyn is identical until the end. Molly being a prostitute who willingly had one installed because she didn't WANT to remember doing sex work and still got paid for it. It was only while she was under she discovered that her pimp and customers were going WAY beyond the contract she'd signed.

So she escaped after waking up during a particularly messed up session and became Wolverine to slaughter all of the psychos involved.

 

[ShadowAssassinxxx]

Needless to say the situation of forced Install doll chips. In the situation of agreed to this it isn't rape, just like deliberately and consensual drunk as a sex play before consensual sexual behavior. However, though it's usually not considered as rape, it'll increase the risk due to unconsciousness

I thought of this, if replace the "doll chips" to "killer chips", and replace the "sexual behavior" to "battle" (in the situation of agreed), does this count as forced conscription?

I thought again that in most countries, having sex with a minor/under-age person is considered rape, even if consensual. But what if a minor with a full-adult mind, or an adult with a full-minor mind (sane but mind-backward, similar to Kula from The King Of Fighters)? Though these two situations are probably extremely rare in real life, but if it happens, how do people think legally and morally?

 

[CTPhipps]

To go back to the Neuromancer example, the chips are an inherently skeevy concept in that they are built around the idea of briefly giving up control over your body and autonomy sexually in order to get paid. It's an evil of capitalism but because it is "your" choice, you have people who voluntarily agree to it. We see this in the TV show DOLLHOUSE that is also based on Neuromancer to an extent.

The thing is that we see with both Molly and Evelyn and the people at Clouds is the fact that the people who implant Doll Chips are not going to abide by any contracts, agreed upon barriers, or deals. It's also inherently skeevy because the appeal of a Doll Chip is that you don't have to deal with any form of trust or "real person" with the level of control over them increased significantly.