Τhat combo is problematic in that regard, in the sense that there is no real counterplay that does not involve losing a metric ton of points yourself. The best you can do is aim for a short round 3 (decks that run this combo literally have no other power play beyond that) where it's subpar to say the least. If they play their spy immediately when you've lost the coinflip, and then they use that combo, they are still 1 card down in order to win round 1. Other than that, spread your big units around. Don't keep them on the same row.
I run this combo a lot, because it's really strong against greatswords. I got a few tips, but first of all, if you do see that in the first round then they're both lucky and crippling their late game.
1) Try not to keep your strongest cards on the same row, same rule as for Geralt: Ingi. Its the safest thing.
2) Mandrake Letho or if you can, Regis. If you see Letho come out, and they have a card, it's safe to assume it's Regis. If you have the bronze mushroom card, that's better because you can reset and strengthen Letho, so you take less of a hit.Cyclops/Slave Driver work well too; anything that destroys letho's boost. Just don't consume him with anything but Arachas Queen
3) Minimize round length. Decks that run L/R typically benefit from longer rounds as to mill out their decks to guarantee they get both. So they typically have bad early round tempo, or require luck.
4) The ideal use of L/R is to put Cantarella beside your strongest card to guarantee that they get the last play so save your spy if they haven't played their's so that you can kill Regis. If they have played their spy before round 3, you might be fine. I personally don't play Cantarella till r3 with Nilfgaard though.
1) Try not to keep your strongest cards on the same row, same rule as for Geralt: Ingi. Its the safest thing.
2) Mandrake Letho or if you can, Regis. If you see Letho come out, and they have a card, it's safe to assume it's Regis. If you have the bronze mushroom card, that's better because you can reset and strengthen Letho, so you take less of a hit.Cyclops/Slave Driver work well too; anything that destroys letho's boost. Just don't consume him with anything but Arachas Queen
3) Minimize round length. Decks that run L/R typically benefit from longer rounds as to mill out their decks to guarantee they get both. So they typically have bad early round tempo, or require luck.
4) The ideal use of L/R is to put Cantarella beside your strongest card to guarantee that they get the last play so save your spy if they haven't played their's so that you can kill Regis. If they have played their spy before round 3, you might be fine. I personally don't play Cantarella till r3 with Nilfgaard though.
ser2440;n10960745 said:
Lately I saw this combo only in reveal decks. That means that when you are on a blue coin, you either go 2 cards down to win R1 or lose it on equal cards (or you drypass and risk losing both rounds). So unless you have high tempo plays in R2, you go into R3 2 cards down (because he spies you back), so your opponent has a perfect opportunity to play Letho + Regis in R3.
Anyway, I think the problem is not Letho + Regis, but 23 points Morvran (2 golems + 2 scorpions). That's even worse than Brouver -> Barclay -> Cleaver since the combo is more flexible (you can spread scorpions' damage or replace scorpions with daerlan footsoldiers when you need less points to be ahead).
Esmer;n10964786 said:
Reveal's weakness is that it runs out of fuel fairly quickly. Your leader is powerful sure but that is assuming you get a good hand, and also, it's the only power play Reveal has aside from Vattier. The key is to push on. Yes, do win the round 2 cards down, against this deck, it's the best thing you can do. When they use the leader or Vattier, they most likely have to pass afterwards, due to a lack of concealers or extra reveal targets in their hand (if they don't pass and keep using alchemists to trigger them with mangonels, they are shooting themselves in the foot, they will end up later in round 2 and 3 with daerlan and scorpions that they cannot reveal) And then, push on on Round 2, force them to expend plays and mangonels. Reveal's short round 3 is worse than the Wild Hunt's (which means I have lost a card up in short round 3s against non- Nova WH decks with all my attempts at using Reveal). If you go on Round 3, even a card down, but with only 3 cards, chances are one is a fire scorpion, another is a blind Villentretenmerth they have to play immediately (and with the lack of targets, they might be forced to damage the only villentretenmerth target on your end) or a risky yennefer: enchantress into scorch. If you won R1, they play first, so even a card up, their scorpions have no targets, and yen will scorch herself.
ser2440;n10964828 said:
We were talking about Letho + Regis, and suddenly there's Villy and Yen.
Moreover, I was saying he will spy you back (to be clear, in R3), so when you go into R3 with -1CA, your opponent still has a perfect opportunity to play Letho + Regis. So I guess the best option is forcing him to play either part of the combo in R2. But again, that won't be easy when you lose a coin flip and have to go -2CA in R1.
Esmer;n10965290 said:
Losing the coinflip is never easy, it's why everyone's crying for a fix of that mechanic. In Reveal's case, their massive early tempo makes things a bit worse admittedly. But if it's Letho Regis, yeah, like you said, forcing them to play either part of the combo and then passing, forces them an extra card down with their biggest play expended. It's like an Iris that they cannot insta-kill. It's very much telegraphed.
You can sort of counter Letho/Regis by row stacking. If you're able to fill the row, they can't play Letho, and Regis has no good targets either (but woe be to you if they aren't actually running Letho/Regis and instead have Hailstorm + Yenn: Enchantress to recast it).
Aside from that, you can sort of counter Letho/Regis by using a powerful last-turn play. In particular Miruna is excellent against Letho/Regis because Regis doesn't do enough to kill her, and if she triggers she'll probably provide enough of a swing to win. Just try to play her on a row which the opponent can't use Letho on.
Finally Letho/Regis is only effective if they're both drawn, so opponents will probably run a great amount of thinning. You can conceivably beat them then with a card like Avallach - just play him last, when the opponent has already thinned to no cards in deck.
Of course these aren't exactly ideal counters, which is why I created a thread some time ago suggesting the combo should be changed or better counterplay added.
Aside from that, you can sort of counter Letho/Regis by using a powerful last-turn play. In particular Miruna is excellent against Letho/Regis because Regis doesn't do enough to kill her, and if she triggers she'll probably provide enough of a swing to win. Just try to play her on a row which the opponent can't use Letho on.
Finally Letho/Regis is only effective if they're both drawn, so opponents will probably run a great amount of thinning. You can conceivably beat them then with a card like Avallach - just play him last, when the opponent has already thinned to no cards in deck.
Of course these aren't exactly ideal counters, which is why I created a thread some time ago suggesting the combo should be changed or better counterplay added.
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there are exactly 2 realistic direct counterplays
Arachas Queen on Letho
Regis on Regis
... everything else is a losing proposition
I can't really include forcing him out or broken on R2, because that's really just bad playing (or worse luck) on the users part
Arachas Queen on Letho
Regis on Regis
... everything else is a losing proposition
I can't really include forcing him out or broken on R2, because that's really just bad playing (or worse luck) on the users part
Unseen Elder is a great option when your oppo is playing Regis last. You've got 20 pts, Letho pulls that to 21, UE then takes 11 from Letho leaving Regis with 9. 10 point Gold Card? Not so hot. If going with UE, partner it with a deck built to support Imlerith:Sabbath would be my advice. If you've got Imlerith at the end, he's likely to do some final damage anyway.
Also Shupe:Mage pulls a card more often than not if you've got no Card-pull spy left.
Also Shupe:Mage pulls a card more often than not if you've got no Card-pull spy left.
You use that word "counter"... I do not think it means what you think it means
Sometimes you're cooked but usually, you either generate more power than they steal or eliminate enough to make up for that. I, personally, find it much less problematic than some perceive.
OFF: You mean me? It's possible...my English is not good enough
My German is much better, because I teach German Feel free to correct me, if I write something stupid.
(it's a was a line borrowed from the movie "The Princess Bride")
... to counter it you would need to both prevent your opponents gain of points, AND your loss... using mandrake on Letho is like cutting off your arm if you get bit by a zombie.... sure you're not a zombie, but you've still lost an arm.
... to counter it you would need to both prevent your opponents gain of points, AND your loss... using mandrake on Letho is like cutting off your arm if you get bit by a zombie.... sure you're not a zombie, but you've still lost an arm.
Yeah, I know that ;-) but if I win with this move then I can call it"counter"...when I don't do that, I lose.
"The zombie analogy is great It happened in "The Walking Dead" with Hershel...not with his arm, but with his leg"
It happened in "The Walking Dead" with Hershel...not with his arm, but with his leg"