How do you think they 'level up' Ciri?

[AvarageEnjoyer]

Your ignoring the fact that the witcher and Gerald did not want her to undergo the trial. For good measure because every single female died during the trials of grasses.

Formulas can be improved, you know.

Your ignoring the fact that the knowledge to make new witchers got lost.

In wolf school, yes. Didn't stop them from keeping the mutagens, that led to the events of Witcher 1. Not to mention that different people can arrive to the same conclusion separately. It happened in real life quite often, that's why a lot of mathematical formulas have double name.

It is this trend now-days with every game going girl boss route.

Again with this girl-boss thing...

 

[eLmeFist0]

Formulas can be improved, you know.

In wolf school, yes. Didn't stop them from keeping the mutagens, that led to the events of Witcher 1. Not to mention that different people can arrive to the same conclusion separately. It happened in real life quite often, that's why a lot of mathematical formulas have double name.

Again with this girl-boss thing...

From my knowledge in the books it says they(witchers) don't remember how to make someone a witcher( certain trials, spells).

Gerald and the rest of the witchers clearly did not want to make her a witcher. Wanting now to make her while she is an adult makes no sense. they specifically made them witcher when super young for lore reason.

girl-boss thing or whatever you wanna call it is a ongoing trend. It is a clear push. The reason for why it is happening is beyond me. I watched recently the latest gaming related reveals and most games had a super looking tough female protagonist.

 

[GrimReaper801]

Again with this girl-boss thing...

Of course.

Because at the end of the day, the real reason for the anger will always rear it's ugly head back.

 

[Andrew_Waples]

Your ignoring the fact that the witchers and Gerald did not want her to undergo the trial. For good measure because every single female died during the trials of grasses.
Your ignoring the fact that the knowledge to make new witchers got lost.

Considering the above facts having Ciri being a witcher is a big lore break and logic break. It does not make sense.
When you ignore things anything is possible.

It is this trend now-days with every game going girl boss route. Where some things are forced to make place for tough-strong female protagonists in next entry of a game series. Don't know what is the reason. It is weird.

It might look like a Last of Us 2. Lets hope we do not get Gerald killed and then "revenge of the fallen" by Ciri. would be disappointing. Gerald is my favorite gaming character.

Why are you afraid of "girl bosses?" What does that even mean.

 

[Domhnallaich]

"Girl-boss" is a term I absolutely hate, but okay, let's entertain it for a moment.
So, a girl who is:

1. related to every major royal family on the continent;
2. is a direct heir of Nilfgaard Empire;
3. has a very special™ elven herritage;
4. was trained by witchers;
5. was trained by mages;
6. was a gang-member at some point;
7. and is lusted over by interdimensional elves, while being a walking, talking weapon of mass destruction - is not a girl boss.​

But once you add being a witcher into the mix - an objectively lower position in status - she suddenly becomes one? How does that work?

So points 1, 2, 6 and 7 have nothing to do with her martial prowess. And she was not lusted over by interdimensional Elves, she disgusted them - they thought her not much better than vermin - it was her blood they were after, just like almost everybody else. So lets look at it this way:

1. She has the elder blood within her, that gives her unique powers.
2. She has been semi-trained by Witchers - so she is very skilled in swordplay, better than most she will come up against.
3. She has been semi-trained by Yennifer & Triss and is learning to control magic.

As I said before, she is absolutely lethal! But then if you add in Witcher mutations - specifically Witcher mutations that would enhance rather than undermine all the other elements - you get a girl boss.

It's her story too, probably in equal measure. In Witcher 3 she was a secondary protagonist - I've heard somewhere that Sapkowski even wanted to name the series "Blood of Elves" - but published wanted him to keep the Witcher title for name recognition. As a matter of fact, she is the main hero of Witcher 3. the entire plot revolves around her and she gets a big character arc - it's just she wasn't the main protagonist.

Respectfully disagree with this - the novels for sure, but everything else including short stories, no. Its also interesting that Sapkowski doesnt appear to be releasing new content about Ciri - its based around Geralt.

And they probably will in the future - but that's doesn't mean that Ciri would be a bad protagonist.

Not saying for one min she is but I am saying that about mutated Ciri.

 

[eLmeFist0]

Why are you afraid of "girl bosses?" What does that even mean.

Who says I am afraid?
I just said what I noticed latest as a trend in gaming being a gamer and all.

 

[Andrew_Waples]

Who says I am afraid?
I just said what I noticed latest as a trend in gaming being a gamer and all.

So, you would call it a "guy boss" trend?

 

[koalahugs]

Formulas can be improved, you know.

In wolf school, yes. Didn't stop them from keeping the mutagens, that led to the events of Witcher 1. Not to mention that different people can arrive to the same conclusion separately. It happened in real life quite often, that's why a lot of mathematical formulas have double name.

Yep, exactly. And the real world is a lot less flexible than a fictional one with fricking magic. That’s what makes their whole argument sound so ridiculous to me.

They’re acting like if you invent a medical procedure, then that‘s that - no more improvements, no development, no alternatives, nothing.

And, like you’ve said before, there’s Rayla, there’s Avallac’h, yet Ciri going through some kind of process to gain mutations is suddenly impossible for them. It’s just selective outrage.

 

[eLmeFist0]

So, you would call it a "guy boss" trend?

What is your problem with what I said?

Post automatically merged: Dec 19, 2024

Yep, exactly. And the real world is a lot less flexible than a fictional one with fricking magic. That’s what makes their whole argument sound so ridiculous to me.

They’re acting like if you invent a medical procedure, then that‘s that - no more improvements, no development, no alternatives, nothing.

And, like you’ve said before, there’s Rayla, there’s Avallac’h, yet Ciri going through some kind of process to gain mutations is suddenly impossible for them. It’s just selective outrage.

Is not just one thing. There multiple things ignored. It's not just girls dying on the procedure.
Let's not pretend its just one thing.

 

[AvarageEnjoyer]

From my knowledge in the books it says they(witchers) don't remember how to make someone a witcher( certain trials, spells).

Gerald and the rest of the witchers clearly did not want to make her a witcher. Wanting now to make her while she is an adult makes no sense. they specifically made them witcher when super young for lore reason.

Yeah, but who says that it's going to be Geralt or his friends? She doesn't even have a wolf medallion, I think it's fairly obvious that some other people are at play.

So points 1, 2, 6 and 7 have nothing to do with her martial prowess. And she was not lusted over by interdimensional Elves, she disgusted them - they thought her not much better than vermin - it was her blood they were after, just like almost everybody else.
As I said before, she is absolutely lethal! But then if you add in Witcher mutations - specifically Witcher mutations that would enhance rather than undermine all the other elements - you get a girl boss.

I mean, Eredin was telling her that she wants him, when he visited her dreams - it's not unusual for racists to lust over those they despise, it even happens in real world too, ironically enough. Forbidden fruit and all that.
I still have no idea how "dimension hopping, sword swinging, teleporting anime protagonist" is in any way less of a girl boss than a witcher - and most importantly, what's even wrong with her being a girl boss?

Respectfully disagree with this - the novels for sure, but everything else including short stories, no. Its also interesting that Sapkowski doesnt appear to be releasing new content about Ciri - its based around Geralt.

And it's mostly inconsequential prequels - maybe he wants to leave her adventures to imagination. Or maybe, despite all the whining, he sees how valuable games are for his brand, so he doesn't want to contradict them directly.
Also, how do her mutations make her a worse protagonist? If anything, they add additional layer to her.

 

[GrimReaper801]

Yeah, but who says that it's going to be Geralt or his friends? She doesn't even have a wolf medallion, I think it's fairly obvious that some other people are at play.

Her medallion looks more like a cat in fact.

And that Polish tabletop game you found did have female witchers in it's school of the cat's ranks.

And it's mostly inconsequential prequels - maybe he wants to leave her adventures to imagination. Or maybe, despite all the whining, he sees how valuable games are for his brand, so he doesn't want to contradict them directly.

It's clearly this.

Sapkowski's books helped the first game gain notoriety in Poland and helped it tremendously but, by now, the roles have been reversed.

The last thing Sapkowski would want is some absurd differences between his book and the vastly more popular games.

His latest book is about a younger Geralt. He's probably very happy to avoid any competitin with CDPR's material. In the end, he benefits too.

 

[AvarageEnjoyer]

Her medallion looks more like a cat in fact.

And that Polish tabletop game you found did have female witchers in it's school of the cat's ranks.

A lynx, to be more precise: https://www.gamesradar.com/the-witc...llion-is-a-lynx-sparking-even-more-questions/

 

[GrimReaper801]

A lynx, to be more precise: https://www.gamesradar.com/the-witc...llion-is-a-lynx-sparking-even-more-questions/

Oh, I did not know that.

Potential School of the Feline Variety?

 

[AvarageEnjoyer]

Oh, I did not know that.

Potential School of the Feline Variety?

Maybe. Or maybe it is subgroup of Cats. Or maybe it's not even a "school" in a traditional sense at all.

 

[GrimReaper801]

Maybe. Or maybe it is subgroup of Cats. Or maybe it's not even a "school" in a traditional sense at all.

Or like the article suggests, maybe Ciri gets to form her own school.

Forces every witcher in her school to call her boss too. Just boss.

Really ram the point home

 

[AvarageEnjoyer]

Really ram the point home

Now you got me thinking, do witchers even have chain of command in a traditional sense?
Technically, Vesemir was the oldest one and the teacher of all the guys in Kaer Morhen - but he wasn't a commander, more like a father.
If Ciri legitimately would open up a school, I wonder how would her subordinates react, considering that she is pretty young herself.

 

[GrimReaper801]

Now you got me thinking, do witchers even have chain of command in a traditional sense?
Technically, Vesemir was the oldest one and the teacher of all the guys in Kaer Morhen - but he wasn't a commander, more like a father.
If Ciri legitimately would open up a school, I wonder how would her subordinates react, considering that she is pretty young herself.

Interesting question. I don't recall any of the schools having a clear and defined hierarchy.

I would assume that's in large part because they're all working on their own and doing their own thing. They don't have any *one* goal to unify them other than wandering the world ridding it of monsters. Whatever form they may take. Not a job to be undertaken as one entity but as several. Thus a "normal" hierarchy wouldn't really work.

Vesemir was listened to out of respect. A witcher would only get to be his age through sheer skill, wisdom and knowledge. Same goes for Geralt. He's a notch above all and that earns him respect. Because of this, my view of their hierarchy has always been that's it's more of a meritocracy.

With that in mind, Ciri was trained by the best there are. Her magic is also extremely potent. Or was, depending on what CDPR is cooking over there. Point being, she would be a very powerful and proefficient witcher.

I think she could earn the respect of her subordinates pretty quickly. That would depend on her actions throughout the upcoming games.

Of course, it's all speculation.

 

[AvarageEnjoyer]

With that in mind, Ciri was trained by the best there are. Her magic is also extremely potent. Or was, depending on what CDPR is cooking over there. Point being, she would be a very powerful and proefficient witcher.

I think she could earn the respect of her subordinates pretty quickly. That would depend on her actions throughout the upcoming games.

Of course, it's all speculation.

Sure, that what makes it so exciting - we are genuinely in a new territory.
Before, we were not only following, but meeting experienced witchers, who have been in the trade their whole life. Even younger ones, like Lambert, has been on the Path for decades. Even if Ciri began her mutations immideately after Witcher 3, she would have probably less than a decade of experience.

And how would she react to the mutations themselves? It's one thing to go through most of your life with them, to the point where you consider them an integral part of who you are - but how would an adult react to that? Imagine all your senses getting 10 times stronger, to the point where you can hear other people's heartbeats. It would probably feel like that moment from Equilibrium, when John Preston started feeling emotions for the first time in his life:

It's like looking at a world with literally different eyes. So exciting to see how they'll depict this.

 

[Draconifors]

This has gone way off-topic. Please return to the actual topic of the thread.

You're free to find or create a separate thread for your current discussion.

 

[Lleuwelyn]

There is already a lot of backlash over the trailer and specifically over the trial of the grasses being capable to do for Ciri as a woman, being friendly lorewise etc etc. Therefor I wanted to post a suggestion that I would think is a compromise people on both sides of the debate.

here is a proposition now that could satisfy both ends of the debate and a compromise:
Since a lot of the game is supposedly based upon choice and effect: how about in the beginning of the game you get to chose with ciri if she wants to take the trials of the grasses or not?

Consequences of not taking them: a much more magic based playstyle with a lot more side content involving teamwork with Geralt for specific monsters. she is less of a tank due to not having mutations and you'd have to play her more strategically with her magic abilities. This would be the lore friendly option. Yes I admit i am on this side of the lore because I'm no fan of having Ciri taking the trials of the grasses. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to discuss it in a civil way.

Choice 2: take the trials while not censoring out the morality impact of experimenting on children needing to be done in order to reach a breakthough to make it more safe for women to pass it. it is a part of the lore that is key to understanding how witchers are seen by the rest of the world around them. They are a necessary evil. It also adds to the gravitas of the decision to become a witcher deliberatly for Ciri in contrary to Geralt being forced to be one as a child. Become your fullon witcher with a much more melee focused build. Geralt is not completely gone but is less present overall since she needs him less. And maybe also because of conflict about her taking the trials disregardless of how he feels about them. Plus if you take a side branch off in a quest (a short one preferably) there is a chance of ciri dieing during the trials. Have her make an option of which witcher school she chooses. And one being a very bad choice due to their poor research capabilities and result in death during the trials.

Of course the overarching story for both core choices would remain the same. But a lot of side branching quests would open up. also with different paths to take depending on your core choice of taking the trials or not.
I think a solution like this would be a good compromise satisfying both ends of the debate, place the focus really on player choice, and add a lot of replay ability.