how huge is Arasaka's army? [poll]

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how huge is Arasaka's army in 2077


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so Arasaka is the biggest megacorporation in the world of cyberpunk and is based on producing the combat troops and weaponry/armor for them. how do you think - how huge is Arasaka's army and is there any army in the world of cyberpunk that surpasses or is equal to the Arasaka's?
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That's the only "solid" info we have, and probably fairly accurate +/- 25%.
No way does it number in the millions.
 
That's the only "solid" info we have, and probably fairly accurate +/- 25%.
No way does it number in the millions.
today's armies got millions of soldiers. the world's population in 2077 is prolly way higher unless some of it was wiped out by the corporate wars. don't you think that in the far future world ruled by megacorporations, those armies would grow to huge sizes? especially in Arasaka's case where the combat troops are their main business.
 
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the world's population in 2077 is prolly way higher unless some of it was wiped out by the corporate wars.
Bio-plagues, ecological disaster, economic and governmental collapse, etc. No the population in 2077 would do well to maintain it's level much less grow. The losses due to the Corp Wars are a drop in the bucket.

Personally I'd bet on a lower population, 90%+ of it concentrated in the urban centers. And some of those (Chicago for example) are basically wastelands only now being rebuilt.
 
Bio-plagues, ecological disaster, economic and governmental collapse, etc. No the population in 2077 would do well to maintain it's level much less grow. The losses due to the Corp Wars are a drop in the bucket.

Personally I'd bet on a lower population, 90%+ of it concentrated in the urban centers. And some of those (Chicago for example) are basically wastelands only now being rebuilt.

Oh, yeah? Then how do you explain this?

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Armies are probably much smaller in the Cyberpunk universe.

1. Nothing quite consumes money like armies and navies. As an example, the U.S. defense budget for 2019 was $686.1 billion (yes, billion). Would Corporations that are primarily concerned with their bottom line maintain defense budgets to rival governments? I doubt it. Companies, unlike governments, can't afford deficit spending and large standing armies probably aren't needed to secure corporate interests in the world of Cyberpunk. Small professional armies would seem to better suit their needs.

2. Corporations probably aren't too concerned with securing areas that they aren't profiting from. They'd likely rather let large sections of territory fall into anarchy than maintain a National Guard or nationalized police forces to maintain order. See the large swaths of what used to be the United States in the Cyberpunk setting that are effectively lawless wasteland, with any semblance of order maintained only by Nomad clans that roam those areas.

3. The world of Cyberpunk is much more fractured. Night City for example is effectively independent from the United States.

4. Historically when regions of the world have experienced civilization collapse and a "dark age," it has been paired with smaller armies being fielded. See Europe in the aftermath of the collapse of the Roman Empire. The world of Cyberpunk is experiencing a dark age. It is a dystopian setting.

5. Greater disparity between rich and poor. The majority of people are living in abject poverty. Tax revenue is going to be lower.
 
Also, one of Mike Pondsmith's stated goals in Cyberpunk RED was to make the global corporate giant corporations a little less all-powerful. So if anything, I think the numbers from 2020 are probably on the high end of what we could expect for their global presence to be in 2077.
 
Oh, yeah? Then how do you explain this?

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Oh, give the Old Mike a break :) Let him have his moments :)
As for Arasaka.
Arasaka was in the Top Big League in 2020, but was not the biggest corp in the world. IEC and EBM wer bigger, MIlitech, Lazarus and Sov Oil were milirtarily stronger. And again, US in Cyberpunk world fielded a reasonably high tech 2 milion strong military. China and NeoSov even bigger. So all corps combined, were still little boys with shiny toys in that neighbourhood. And as Arasaka was curbstomped into near extinction, with it's assets taken over or nationalized in 2024, it's safe assumption that they are in the Upper Middle League in 2077. Also, taking into consideration ebvents from 2020 till 2045, national governments don't look too kindly on strong corporate military.
And we still have a big gap between 45 and 77.
 
Oh, give the Old Mike a break :) Let him have his moments :)
As for Arasaka.
Arasaka was in the Top Big League in 2020, but was not the biggest corp in the world. IEC and EBM wer bigger, MIlitech, Lazarus and Sov Oil were milirtarily stronger. And again, US in Cyberpunk world fielded a reasonably high tech 2 milion strong military. China and NeoSov even bigger. So all corps combined, were still little boys with shiny toys in that neighbourhood. And as Arasaka was curbstomped into near extinction, with it's assets taken over or nationalized in 2024, it's safe assumption that they are in the Upper Middle League in 2077. Also, taking into consideration ebvents from 2020 till 2045, national governments don't look too kindly on strong corporate military.
And we still have a big gap between 45 and 77.
so Arasaka is the richest megacorporation in the world of cyberpunk that is based on producing combat troops but has smaller army than Militech that is based on producing weapons to sell, Lazarus that's not even 1/6 as rich as Arasaka and Sovoil that's having troops just to secure their petrochemicals business. it's like Trauma Team having more petrochemicals than whole Petrochem just to use it in their aerodynes.
what's Arasaka doing with all this money then?
 
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so Arasaka is the richest megacorporation in the world of cyberpunk that is based on producing combat troops but has smaller army than Militech that is based on producing weapons to sell, Lazarus that's not even 1/6 as rich as Arasaka and Sovoil that's having troops just to secure their petrochemicals business. it's like Trauma Team having more petrochemicals than whole Petrochem just to use it in their aerodynes.
what's Arasaka doing with all this money then?
Arasaka is security corporation, not stricte military. They do produce a lot of hardware, but not as much as Militech, they do have a lot of troops, but about thje asme amount as Militech. They have a lot of security and rentacop personell, more than any corp, probably more than all corps combined, because most security for almost every corp is done by Arasaka., and a lot of agents and covert ops. Arasaka is also nto the richest. EBM and IEC are richer. As for Lazarus. They are the army for hire, as the old school XVI century companies. Arasaka is portrayed to be the biggest, the baddest the most of them all corp. But it is just one of the several big guys on the block. The IV corp war brought entire world against Arasaka.
As for what are they (or rather, were they) doing with all the money, they control a lot of things. They buy politicians, activists, celebrities. Everyone. All corps do that, but Arasaka excells in that.
But it was 2020s. In 2077 it may be all different. Hell, in 2077 Arasaka may as well be good guys, what is hinted in the world book for Jumpstart Kit.
 
Arasaka is security corporation, not stricte military. They do produce a lot of hardware, but not as much as Militech, they do have a lot of troops, but about thje asme amount as Militech. They have a lot of security and rentacop personell, more than any corp, probably more than all corps combined, because most security for almost every corp is done by Arasaka., and a lot of agents and covert ops. Arasaka is also nto the richest. EBM and IEC are richer. As for Lazarus. They are the army for hire, as the old school XVI century companies. Arasaka is portrayed to be the biggest, the baddest the most of them all corp. But it is just one of the several big guys on the block. The IV corp war brought entire world against Arasaka.
As for what are they (or rather, were they) doing with all the money, they control a lot of things. They buy politicians, activists, celebrities. Everyone. All corps do that, but Arasaka excells in that.
But it was 2020s. In 2077 it may be all different. Hell, in 2077 Arasaka may as well be good guys, what is hinted in the world book for Jumpstart Kit.
i think that Arasaka's full armed, armored and trained security troops assigned to defend enormous megacorporations' facilities that may be attacked by corporate military forces at any given moment, are just military forces with security in their name
 
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Arasaka is security corporation, not strictly military. They do produce a lot of hardware, but not as much as Militech, they do have a lot of troops, but about the same amount as Militech.
Arasaka also has a LOT of subsidiary divisions that produce stuff besides weaponry, whereas that, and hiring out mercs, is pretty much all MiliTech does. If your only business (pretty much) is guns and grunts it makes sense you'd have more of both.
 
Not that I'm a lore expert but I also think the initial assumptions are way overblown, too.

Also, taking into consideration ebvents from 2020 till 2045, national governments don't look too kindly on strong corporate military.

This also made me think. I do loosely recall lore snippets or statements from prior corporate wars saying "classic governments" are still powerful or can be and that they sometimes had to step in to put corporations in their place. I think even Night City or rather the Free State of Northern California as de-facto (independent) state and government has a military in the classic sense somewhere, although it's been hardly mentioned in the CP2077 context so far.

Good question, actually. Do they have a military force?

Lore veterans might smirk or know the answer now. For me, I had to do a little digging. Here's what I generally found, in order.

1) Possible custom lore source that may not be accurate or authentic for this lore

Summary of link in a nutshell: Describes Oak Wood as huge military base where classic military forces are concentrated and where MPs do all the policing. Do note, due to the nature of this site, this might possibly be custom lore or made up and not fully align with CP2020 or CP2077 lore.

2) Free deduction based on the state (government) itself

We in essence have this independent state now that may at best be loosely tied to the Union. How does a state, small or big, keep its sovereignty or remotely maintain it? Armed forces. Could you trust international corporations, powerful players in this setting or not, fully to it? I doubt it. While local corporations or their employees might fight out of self interest in a potential war time scenario and siege on the city, assuming the attackers weren't part of the same group or corp, I doubt you'd fully rely on egoistic corpos, disgruntled cops, specialized or not, or some sort of generally armed but unprofessional or unreliable uncoordinated population.
You'd likely have your own professional trained fighting force with the right hardware in case your neighbours bug you. As "port city" or state you're also more at an abstract risk I think, or more of a potential target.

3) Night City wiki article - map section
This map lists

Zone H - Northoak
  1. The Oaks
  2. NORPAC Naval HQ
  3. NORCAL Airforce HQ
  4. NORCAL Army HQ

as military area. This is likely based on CP2020 lore related source books, where else would this come from? This would also complement the first link.


Summary:
As non-expert on the lore and after a quick search on the internet (I cannot check the lore or NC source books myself) and after seeing two sources (one might be generally custom and not fully trustworthy) plus a map reference specifically listing military bases and by using deduction on what could be likely, despite the oddities of this world, I think it can be assumed that the independent state of NorCal operates its own military forces that it can use or whip out if need be.

Given that they are probably numerous in relation to the general population and trained specifically for combat, I reckon they could put a dent with ease in any corporate forces - the local ones at least, that is. No military expert either, but for a general population of a few or many millions, I imagine at the very least tens of thousands of troops with combat focused implants and training and of course the appropriate hardware. Maybe they even have a hundred thousand soldiers or more, no clue.

Corpos might call the shots in every day life and politics in places such as NC or NorCal in the wider sense and thus on a global scale. But "straw men" in gov positions for better pro corp legislations or not, I think good gov fighting forces (that seemingly continue to exist) can still kick corporate butt any day in a conventional war time setting, at least. And if it would come to a scenario where they have to.

I don't think we get to see classic or huge conventional wars in the CP2077 story arc, though, let alone where a corporation and a state (one of the Cals, North or South) is involved.

Oh, right, post is getting long now. Time for a cut.
 
Oh, right, post is getting long now. Time for a cut.

A bit :)
The lore of Cyberpunk 2020 is a little scetchy. One sourcebook says one thing, the other says another. But it is clearly said that when the Corps step the very few boundaries left, they get anihilated. Governments like US, Euro, China, NeoSov have resources and only need the will to do that. Also, when one corp fucks up, there are five others that are eager to back up the government in grinding the competition into the ground and be seen as a good guy.
As for the lore of 2077. We only have some background in the Jumpstart. NorCal, together with the richest states in the Union: Oregon and Washington and joined by Nevada, Utah, Idaho and British Columbia created something called Pacific Confederacy. It seems like inspired by the early US under the Articles of the Confederation. Independent states banded together for economic benefit and mutual protection. They inherited some of the US military assets in the area, which makes them a force to be reckon with. It is also said that corporations are on the rise again but they are nowhere near the power level and influence of the corps of the 2020. It was also said in some parts of 2020 lore that there is no love lost between the US military and the corporations.
As for the estimates. I'd put my bet on some 20k strong military for Arasaka and maybe slightly more for Militech.
But probably, when the CP Red finally arrives, we'll see some outrageus, arbitrary numbers that will follow through into 2077 :)
 
I tend to think of it along the lines of the Greek City-States.

While independent, and sometimes antagonistic toward each other there are also numerous alliances ( which may, or may not, be long lasting) simply because no City-State wants to be at the mercy of a hostile neighbor and other City-States see the value of supporting State A vs State B to keep State B in check.

So while the Free State of NorCal may not field a large army it will have one, and the ability to call on those of it's allies in time of need.

Additionally top tier military equipment IS NOT profitable to construct/maintain. No corp is going to be able to field even a battalion of tanks (a platoon or company maybe) much less the equivalent of an an Armored Division. And high tech weapons or not tanks in 2077 will still be essentially invulnerable to the majority of what light infantry (i.e. Corp military forces) can throw at them, and while a Corp may have a handful of anti-armor weapons it's only a handful thus can't be everywhere, nor probably do they have enough ammo to deal with a significant number of tanks (two, five, ten maybe, fifty? Doubtful).
 
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Sild

Ex-moderator
Additionally top tier military equipment IS NOT profitable to construct/maintain. No corp is going to be able to field even a battalion of tanks (a platoon or company maybe) much less the equivalent of an an Armored Division.

SovOil fielded a naval fleet (unsurprisingly, since they're main source of income lies in offshore oil platforms) during the Second Corp War. A tank battalion is peanuts in comparison.

The illustration isn't much to go on but the ship on the left is definitely of military design, probably a destroyer.
 
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SovOil fielded a naval fleet (unsurprisingly, since they're main source of income lies in offshore oil platforms) during the Second Corp War. A tank battalion is peanuts in comparison.

The illustration isn't much to go on but the ship on the left is definitely of military design, probably a destroyer.
Depends a LOT on what that "fleet" consisted of.
Gun frigates are fairly cheap, and I doubt they had an aircraft carrier ... not due to cost but because of the skills and training necessary to operate one. It takes years to develop and hone these (and this is why those crusty old Chief Petty Officers are so vital).

Almost anyone can learn to fly an aircraft, but very few people have the reflexes and skills needed to be a fighter pilot, and even fewer have the skills needed to take off and land on a ship.
 
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