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I'm not even a fan of first person games tbh so this was a learning curve for me and after a few hours I understand why it wasn't 3rd person. Having played things like GTA where everything looks samey and unforgettable then Red Dead Redemption 2 where it was better but the game had to be slowed down as a result for you to be completely immersed in the world. And ppl didn't like the pacing as a result. This game needed to do both those things but without the pacing of RDR2 and I believe it succeeded. I'm on board with First person now, especially since the cyberpunk aesthetic is what drew me to this game in the first place. Because of that I spent days in night city before even attempting the main story.
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And I think that's OK. The atmosphere, the city is as much part of the game as are the story missions.
Even though some of the NPCs urge you to hurry (that could be improved by a "call me when you're ready" mechanic, as someone suggested), take your time - it's supposed to be an "open world" game.
I play on a PS4 PRO. I enjoy the game because I like RPGs, and I like CDPR. But it runs terribly, it's probably the worst looking game I have played on the PS4 pro, it's very inconsistent, it will have -moments- of beauty, but it will often run in the 15-18FPS range shadows turned off, it all looks cartoony and just bad. It's hard to say but the stability and performance has actually gotten worse in 1.05, 1.06.
It crashes 2-3 times in a 2 hour play session. I've had it crash 5 times at most in a play session. Thats pretty much unheard of for PS games.
Maybe they were mad about refunds, maybe not. But the game is an absolute dumpster fire on PS4 PRO compared to every other PS4 game I have. I can't imagine playing it on PS4 base. Think of how many millions of people have only experienced this game on a PS4 base system. CDPR should be mortified. It should have been pulled. There's no argument to be made about "old-gen" It was released as a PS4 game, there is no PS5 version available.
To me it's pretty clear why it was delisted.
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For me personally I enjoy single player games. I spend tons of hours in them - Elder Scrolls games, Fallout series, old Black Isle games etc.
I have no real interest in an multiplayer version of the game. It could be fun I guess... but I would much prefer they add as much back in to the single player game to be able to keep players such as myself for a longer period of time, with plenty of things to do. I don't expect that - but it is my hope. I want the open world sandbox they said it was to be.
I don't think they should just draw the line with what we were given and move on - that's a cop-out. Deliver the things they promised if possible first. MP brings so many more issues to the table - and they can't even balance things properly with SP yet.
I could almost agree with your post if not for the fact that games that came out 15+ years ago with smaller development teams were more technologically and mechanically robust. The metric shouldn't be "do you know how hard/time consuming that is to code that?!" but rather, "have other studios of similar or smaller size in a similar or worse position succeeded in programming more and better features? Yes, yes they have. And because of that, it is not unreasonable to expect CDPR to fix this.
Personally I am being loud about my criticism for many different reasons.
First of all, I love CDPR even though currently I have very little trust in them until they prove me wrong. As you mention, some stuff are forgiven in other games where they aren't here. Why? Because I have no faith in those other companies. I have no interest in those games because i know they only aim for a mediocre experience. They proved that they don't hesitate to sacrafice their reputation for cheap tactics.
CDPR is a company I was thinking highly of, so when they promise me something, then I will believe them telling the truth. And when they don't, I sure as hell will call them out on it. Because I know they can do better, I know they did better in the past. And I won't be asking for anything more than what they promised. I simply want them to uphold the standards they set themselves. Because if we let things slide, there is no gurantee that they won't go down the same path as many other AAA companies.
I want them to deliver what they promised, so I can keep trusting in them, so I can keep supporting them.
After their questionable marketing stunts they already started to act like those other companies. I really don't want to end up putting CDPR on the same list as Ubisoft and many other games I just ignore by principle.
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I'm a dev (although not in the gaming industry) for about 5-6 yrs now and studied CS in university & grad school.
First of all, I agree with you, changing major functionalities usually takes a lot of effort. Sometimes, even a tiny requirement change could take a lot of time to implement too. But that doesn't mean end users shouldn't give feedback. Because at the end of the day, we all want to create something that the users love. If not, it hurts the company's wallet and my career. So if there's something that I could fix/add to improve customer satisfaction, of course the company / I would do it. Moreover, it's not like the company (yes, sometimes devs wouldn't even have a say in it) would look into everything you post lol.
With that said, I just wanted to add, from a devs prospective, it's a completely absurd thing to see so many bugs that happen to most players / are easily reproduced that were passed by QA.
First of all, I agree with you, changing major functionalities usually takes a lot of effort. Sometimes, even a tiny requirement change could take a lot of time to implement too. But that doesn't mean end users shouldn't give feedback. Because at the end of the day, we all want to create something that the users love. If not, it hurts the company's wallet and my career. So if there's something that I could fix/add to improve customer satisfaction, of course the company / I would do it. Moreover, it's not like the company (yes, sometimes devs wouldn't even have a say in it) would look into everything you post lol.
With that said, I just wanted to add, from a devs prospective, it's a completely absurd thing to see so many bugs that happen to most players / are easily reproduced that were passed by QA.
You could categorize the "cut content", or updates, into two categories:
Release update 1 as a free update in mid 2021, that directly updates the main campaign in cosmetic ways.
Then, release update 2 as a separate DLC that unfolds AFTER the main campaign, that brings all these updates to the open world, at the end of 2021.
I think it would be really useful to be able to completely ignore the singleplayer campaign while adding these.
After establishing 2, you could build a story expansion or MP ontop of that. The MP probably can be worked on in tandem, all throughout 2021, and be released mid 2022? Then story expansion comes end of 2022 maybe
- Updates that don't effect gameplay (and importantly, story)
- Bugfixes
- Better police AI/ Wanted system
- Train system (maybe)
- Barbers
- Updates that effect gameplay and story
- More items
- Expanded/rebalanced perks
- Gangwars
- Profession specific missions (i.e. netrunner)
- Purchase houses
- Car modification
- Merc bosses
- Random romance options
Release update 1 as a free update in mid 2021, that directly updates the main campaign in cosmetic ways.
Then, release update 2 as a separate DLC that unfolds AFTER the main campaign, that brings all these updates to the open world, at the end of 2021.
I think it would be really useful to be able to completely ignore the singleplayer campaign while adding these.
After establishing 2, you could build a story expansion or MP ontop of that. The MP probably can be worked on in tandem, all throughout 2021, and be released mid 2022? Then story expansion comes end of 2022 maybe
I have a first degree numb bum from sitting on it all day an can type furious an angry words and have the best solutions to world hunger and cancer the world has ever heard and am quite proficient in telling ppl how to do a job i have no clue how to do but they do. I am ofc a gasement gajer and what i say matters ok..........OK!!
I've mentioned this in another thread, many features that seem like people are reaching a bit in terms of requests would actually go a long way to giving the MP staying power, if you're already going to develop them you might as well do them in the most functional framework of the game currently available. You get to flesh out the single player experience considerably while simultaneously developing MP content. It looks good for the studio and it's efficient.
Even if people have no experience with game development, that doesn't change the fact that they were promised one product and given another. And as a result of that they express their dissatisfaction with it and that can never be their fault, in my opinion.
No one is forcing CDPR to do anything, because that is impossible. But if everyone just said "Ohh well got screwed over yet again, but what can you do. Guess, it will be better next time." it would just get worse. These companies need to be made aware that this is not acceptable. Think about how many AAA games are released now, that are in such poor state and filled with loot boxes and bugs that they are almost dead on arrival, people are fed up. Mass effect: Andromeda, Fallout 76, Anthem, Avengers, Cyberpunk, AC: Valhalla (to some degree), Warcraft 3: Reforge, Diablo 3 was a mess when it was released as well, and you can probably list more.
But you can't expect people to simply not care when these companies, encourage them to pre order their games under false premises and then afterwards people like you (not meant in a rude way) tell them that they shouldn't complain about it, because it takes a lot of effort to fix these things. No one forced CDPR to promote CP as a RPG with complex storylines, next gen AI system never seen before, NPCs having lifecycles, wanted systems, car customizations and what else they told people.
Personally I don't mind people that don't care if they didn't get what they thought they would and is fine with it. But I do not like to be told one thing and then to be given something else, I wouldn't like it in a restaurant either, and just say that "Ohh well it's just too much effort for the cook to make another dish, so I let it fly." I would complain there as well. And yes it might not take the cook as long to do it and we are talking food here. But to me it's not really that different, we are simply talking a lot more money, time and people involved. And this is the business they are in, just as it is the cook's job to make you what you ordered.
"From pre-order sales alone, Cyberpunk 2077 has already recouped all costs from the game’s development and marketing."
Why is it that its ok for these gaming companies to do these things and people should just accept it, but when it's something else it's not ok, I don't get that?
That is my logic too. Like for example with people asking for third person view. The MP will must have animations on the 3rd person view, they could add that into the single player later on.
That's not a new thing. To put an example... one of my favorite computer games, "Daggerfall", Elder Scrolls 2 from the 90s, had many layers of clothes and your character could wear them all. Underwear, shirts, armor, cloaks. You didn't had to remove the cloak in order to wear the armor. You could put the hood on and off from the cloak for pure roleplay purposes, depending on season, summer or winter. Your character had skills to speak in the monster tongues to pacify them, a skill to climb a wall to enter a city avoiding the guards at the gate, if not levitate with a spell inherited from your vampiric disease. Vampires and werewolves, and most of the fictional books featured in later games were also introduced in that time, when 3D card didn't even exist. Each god in the pantheon had a separate religion and you could be a member of their church. How many Daggerfall features remain at the latest installment? Some of them, luckily, but not nearly all.
Mechanically, the truth is most games have turned much simpler, and not the opposite, as time goes by. Simpler means less mistakes, less complexities in development, less bugs. At this time, complexities can cost millions to a game producer and lead it to ruin. A law of engineering and design is, "simpler is better": "Daggerfall" was almost unplayable at release, yet the thing is, games are a special exception. Both good and bad complexities are sometimes needed to make a revolutionary game like that classic RPG... just prepare yourself for the bugs.
Games are very expensive to make now, more than ever. So try to understand that, even with current technology, its inevitable to cut some corners from time to time. Cyberpunk its still very, very ambitious for modern times and considering the already incredible development and producing effort that is normally placed into games, I bet you won't see a game like this one for a long while.
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Well if CP77 will fail to implement the complexity they marketed, all my attention and efforts will be redirected to Baldur's Gate 3 for sure. I personally don't care about bugs unless they hinder progression. What I do care about in RPGs is complexity and a long engaging story. Even if it's at the cost of graphics.
i still remember my final in C++ for engineering in college. i had to develop a tank game. i was instructed to write the script for a very simple dos game. you'd be presented with a target, whose location would deviate relative to the difficulty you selected at the start. you'd then select an value for it's y (angle you fire at) and it's x (the force you'd use to presumably propel the shell). there'd be a standard deviation between the final location of the shell, again relative to the difficulty you selected at the start. if you hit the target you won. if you missed, the opposing tank would get a turn. and you guessed it, the likilihood he'd hit you was dependent on which difficulty you selected at the start.
i remember i decided to create an "easy mode" that would automatically be initiated if you lost three times in a row (inspired by ninja gaiden). i eventually failed in this endeavor and ended up turning in a project with an unfinished script
obviously this doesn't mean i'm qualified to judge game design, but i did learn how challenging even simple script writing can be
i remember i decided to create an "easy mode" that would automatically be initiated if you lost three times in a row (inspired by ninja gaiden). i eventually failed in this endeavor and ended up turning in a project with an unfinished script
obviously this doesn't mean i'm qualified to judge game design, but i did learn how challenging even simple script writing can be
same! the funny thing is that CP 2077 was my Christmas present and I'm playing with Fallout New Vegas..... it's just sad
Its likely that the game get better and deeper with time. As I said before, extra content, new gameplay features will minimize the problems and build upon the strengths of the game. CP2077 is clearly just the base for something bigger.
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