How many weapons do you want to carry?

[schiff]

On the topic, I think you'll be limited by your CONstitution points to what you'll be able to take in your inventory.

I thought about stats too, yet stats are there to prevent all-round characters, and there are simpler ways to make them and allow all kinds of skills etc at the same time. It's a matter of what they want to balance things around and make something approximately functional out of variables and options that drive everything to undecisional gameplay, 'cause for players to guess what the enemy is up to they need indirect and reliable infos.
Reasons i posted somewhere

 

[maelcom]

I thought about stats too, yet stats are there to prevent all-round characters, and there are simpler ways to make them and allow all kinds of skills etc at the same time. It's a matter of what they want to balance things around and make something approximately functional out of variables and options that drive everything to undecisional gameplay, 'cause for players to guess what the enemy is up to they need indirect and reliable infos.
Reasons i posted somewhere

That would be the easiest way to deal with it.
If what I think the game is gonna be is true, you'll probably have "one character" (ala Fallout), not really any classes, but at the begining, you'll have a bunch of point to put in your REF, CON, COOL, etc..., then your 40 points for your skills (something like the pnp), wich will influence your "role", and your main stats will influence your "character". That's the most reasonable way to do a great game without spending time adapting the game for almost 10 different roles.
I'd love to have 10 different game for every role you'd choose, but technicaly it's almost impossible (well it is, but i doubt CDPR would have the time and the recourse to make it really "deep" if it was the case, i'd prefer "One guy" game with a long and deep game/story, than a fast-scratched "every-role" game who'll end up less cool than the pnp, what is appliable on the pnp isn't on video game)

Everyone start at the same point and you'll decide wich way you choose to play your character, I can be wrong, but it seems to be the easiest way for them to do it, and you'll still have the versatility of the various role depending on how you turn your character skill-wise.

As stated on another topic, it's going to be an adaptation "CDPR's style" so I think we'll have a mix of the pnp mechanics, and something "new".

Plus, if there is multiplayer, the characters have to be well-balanced, otherwise it's going to be super-broken.

For the number of gun you can take, some cybernetic-augmentation of your body constitution will probably be aviable (this and exo-squeletons) to help you wearing a lot more stuff.

 

[schiff]

Because it's a story driven game, you can' t have 10 different games but 10 similar ones. So yeah, you don't really adapt it to roles but you get the "one guy" game.
For stats, they generally don't make sense in rpg's as they fit with level scaling (ex. kill something, the higher the stats the bigger or luckier the looting is) so they need fixes: they have to be bound to stuff. I'd rather go for skills as they are easier to balance for action, given a character-skill progression that makes sense.

 

[kyberpunkki]

As many as it's physically possible, duh...

 

[Sardukhar]

What gameplay element would access to all weapon types hinder, given that 2077 will a single player rpg and not a multiplayer fps?

Good question.

I would say that getting access to a Tsunami Arms Helix in the first ten hours or so of the game would change the street-level feel very fast and swap the gameplay from a careful, fight-when-you-have-to Cyberpunk 2020 style to a FIREMADGUNSWHEEEE style.

This will probably happen anyway, given that unlike in the PnP youhave endless lives, but I hope CDPR will rig it so our weapon and cyber access is limited at first, so we learn to be properly afraid.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

Good question.

I would say that getting access to a Tsunami Arms Helix in the first ten hours or so of the game would change the street-level feel very fast and swap the gameplay from a careful, fight-when-you-have-to Cyberpunk 2020 style to a FIREMADGUNSWHEEEE style.

This will probably happen anyway, given that unlike in the PnP youhave endless lives, but I hope CDPR will rig it so our weapon and cyber access is limited at first, so we learn to be properly afraid.

Not quite my point. Obviously giving access the ZOMGWTFBBQ!!!1 weapons from the get-go would be a bit daft. But it would be nice to get something like that later in the game. (Damn I loved the Helix... Word to the wise, Helix + Thermite ammo = no arms and a trip to the ripper doc, but damn it's worth it!)

My question was specifically: What gameplay elements would be hindered by giving all role types the ability to use any type of weapon? (Given that 2077 will be a single player RPG - possibly with some currently undisclosed form of multiplayer - and not a multiplayer FPS.)

 

[nukeheal]

I say ginverntory siimlar to Deus Ex:HR if you can fit something ..you can carry. perhaps some LV.2 - 3 upgrades to storage later down the line to add 10% extra space in the bag.

I am against carrying all the weapons in the pocket like in GTA. its a bit silly if you can wear t-shirt and shorts and somehow manifest RL and FT out of your arse. c'mon!

 

[schiff]

Good question.

what i posted at page 25, as anwer

Left like this, it's lacking: fine for deus-exy games since you either play alone or tag along cannon fodder and combat sucks, but for team play, a decent metagame, and the extreme customization devs mentioned you might want inventory restrictions instead of slot ones or small inventories (having extreme customization and allowing anything you want in your inventory kills any metagame coming from the game), so that a defined character progression (you earn X exp/skill point for a particular thing, you carry heavier tools) gets some specialized stuff that is easy to balance along with common and useful universal stuff (think of pistols/ tools/ skills). That way, indirect information goes beyond number and enemy type/class and players can easily come up with a strategy in a short time without bothersome huds and fixes.
Reasons why people shouldn't copy and paste from games/books.

Or why they shouldn't push crap stuff to the extreme unless they want to play a mmorpg or something like borderlands where everything is a damage sponge and has to be tied to level

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

what i posted at page 25, as anwer

Except that doesn't answer the question at all. It has nothing to with why some roles should have access to weaponry that others can't. In fact, this pertains solely to multiplayer gameplay - which is not confirmed - and has no bearing on the singleplayer element - which is the backbone of the game.

I see no logical reason to prevent any player from picking up and using any weapon that they find. By all means limit what they find, (as well as where and when,) and their skills, (or lack of,) can be used to affect how effective they are at using it -

"Which end do the bullets come out?"
"I'll give you a clue, not that end..."

I am still in favour of a modular inventory system based on slots and mass based storage. Being able to physically carry an extra bag in your hand for more gear - thus sacrificing the ability to carry a weapon in that hand until the bag gets dropped. But that bag should also be stealable.

 

[schiff]

Neither me or you mentioned roles in the last 3 pages, and you have no idea what you are talking about.

It's a matter of what they want to balance things around and make something approximately functional out of variables and options that drive everything to undecisional gameplay, 'cause for players to guess what the enemy is up to they need indirect and reliable infos.
Reasons i posted somewhere

everything i posted deals with single player stuff that isn't simply charging damage sponges.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

I am definitely NOT a fan of weight/volume related restrictions to carry capacity in computer games in general.
While it is realistic it often turns a game into:
1) Inventory Tetris
2) Is loot item "A" more or less valuable per-mass-unit then loot item "B"
Either of which can turn a fun game into pain in the ass.

The simple solution would be to arbitrarily restrict weapon carry capacity to:
Two two-hand weapon (i.e. rifle/rocket launcher) - So you can carry say two rifles (i.e. assault and sniper) or a rifle and a rocket launcher
Two one-hand weapons (i.e. handgun/sword/SMG) - So carry dual handguns or dual swords or one of each
One concealable weapon (i.e. small handgun/knife)

This would give sufficient versatility without totally unrealistic (i.e. an entire armory worth of weaponry) weapons loads.

Seconded, i'd also argue allowing all kinds of weapons to anyone still hinders gameplay.

Can someone please quote me so that Schiff can answer my following question:

What gameplay element would access to all weapon types hinder, given that 2077 will a single player rpg and not a multiplayer fps?

Not quite my point. Obviously giving access the ZOMGWTFBBQ!!!1 weapons from the get-go would be a bit daft. But it would be nice to get something like that later in the game. (Damn I loved the Helix... Word to the wise, Helix + Thermite ammo = no arms and a trip to the ripper doc, but damn it's worth it!)

My question was specifically: What gameplay elements would be hindered by giving all role types the ability to use any type of weapon? (Given that 2077 will be a single player RPG - possibly with some currently undisclosed form of multiplayer - and not a multiplayer FPS.)

what i posted at page 25, as anwer


Or why they shouldn't push crap stuff to the extreme unless they want to play a mmorpg or something like borderlands where everything is a damage sponge and has to be tied to level

Except that doesn't answer the question at all. It has nothing to with why some roles should have access to weaponry that others can't. In fact, this pertains solely to multiplayer gameplay - which is not confirmed - and has no bearing on the singleplayer element - which is the backbone of the game.

I see no logical reason to prevent any player from picking up and using any weapon that they find. By all means limit what they find, (as well as where and when,) and their skills, (or lack of,) can be used to affect how effective they are at using it -

"Which end do the bullets come out?"
"I'll give you a clue, not that end..."

I am still in favour of a modular inventory system based on slots and mass based storage. Being able to physically carry an extra bag in your hand for more gear - thus sacrificing the ability to carry a weapon in that hand until the bag gets dropped. But that bag should also be stealable.

Neither me or you mentioned roles in the last 3 pages, and you have no idea what you are talking about.

When I clarified my question after Sards misunderstanding of it I specified role types. You stated that "Giving all kinds of weaponry to everyone hinders gameplay." I stated role types. Forget 3 pages, that's on this page.

Given that there will be a role/class style setup in 2077 - as stated in the announcement videos - I feel vindicated in my decision to interpret 'everyone' as meaning all role types.

So, please clarify what gameplay is affected by restricting which types of weapons can be used by roles.

 

[schiff]

Didn't read that post, but the answer is still the same.
I never talked about role exclusive looting or whatever. Still there should be skills planned for those who want to gear up, which will approximately set the character from "light gear" to heavy weapons whatever. Inventory restrictions and skill points are there to prevent one kind of role and build to rule them all.

 

[gurosan]

a primary ranged weapon -> Crossbow
secondary ranged weapon -> Revolver
a melee weapon -> twin daggers or one really practical
a pair of grenades or proximity mines
and vintage sunglases

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

a primary ranged weapon -> Crossbow
secondary ranged weapon -> Revolver
a melee weapon -> twin daggers or one really practical
a pair of grenades or proximity mines
and vintage sunglases

...and you're ready for the zombie apocalypse!

So you are in favour of the classic primary, secondary, melee, gadgets approach then.

Do you not find that a bit restrictive for an RPG?

 

[Suhiira]

...and you're ready for the zombie apocalypse!

So you are in favour of the classic primary, secondary, melee, gadgets approach then.

Do you not find that a bit restrictive for an RPG?

Why should (s)he find that restrictive?
It's a single-player RPG not a multi-player FPS.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

Why should (s)he find that restrictive?
It's a single-player RPG not a multi-player FPS.

Because that is the 'current' fps setup. I personally want to have more options than this system allows. I would rather have the ability to sacrifice overall storage space in favour of more weapons, or vice versa, as well as sacrificing capacity for being lighter on my feet.

 

[gurosan]

i made classic style weapons loadout idea because it is kinda unrealistic to carry around whole factory of weapons like jet-fighters in pockets and torpedoes beneath sleeves...

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

i made classic style weapons loadout idea because it is kinda unrealistic to carry around whole factory of weapons like jet-fighters in pockets and torpedoes beneath sleeves...

I understand and I agree with your reasoning, but I also feel that the old primary/secondary approach is too restrictive. It works well in games like CoD and Battlefield, but you need the restrictions there to make sure players specialise. They are competitive team based games afterall, (death matches not withstanding.)

But what happens when you have to deal with more situations over a protracted period of time?

That was the whole point behind a modular inventory system. Have a look at this video:

ARMA 3 has one of the best loadout systems I have seen to date. Now, I realise that it still focuses on the Primary/Secondary/Gadget system, but if you could add or remove additional slots for those while sacrificing other elements like agility, endurance, capacity or some such, then I would be very happy.

Please also take a look at this post:
http://www.cyberpunk.net/forum/en/t...ou-want-to-carry?p=27767&viewfull=1#post27767

...which was basically the logic behind this idea:

Do you not feel that somethingllike this could please both the players who want more options and those who want to avoid being able to carry everything to hand?

 

[d1am0ndback]

Well since I'm going to be joining the Slaughterhouse gang, I'm going to fill my body with as many blades as possible. So's I can stab people in any kind of situation I find myself in.

 

[schiff]

I understand and I agree with your reasoning, but I also feel that the old primary/secondary approach is too restrictive.

Because a lot of weapons are going to have the same lethal properties, most based on luck because of bullet spread, you can't avoid things like primary or secondary weaps much less an approach that would work well with both teams and loners (because 99,99% of the weapons seen in the weapon thread are good for teams).

It works well in games like CoD and Battlefield, but you need the restrictions there to make sure players specialise. They are competitive team based games afterall, (death matches not withstanding.)
Those games are broken jokes
But what happens when you have to deal with more situations over a protracted period of time?
Things like level design are there to prevent things like being stuck
That was the whole point behind a modular inventory system. Have a look at this video:



ARMA 3 has one of the best loadout systems I have seen to date. Now, I realise that it still focuses on the Primary/Secondary/Gadget system, but if you could add or remove additional slots for those while sacrificing other elements like agility, endurance, capacity or some such, then I would be very happy.
Sacrificing stuff is a horrible idea as it lacks consistency because of variables. You wouldn't know simple things like how much it takes to go from a to b, and spend time over trivial stuff like trying to get the best loadout there it is and patching things with augs. Copy and paste stuff from games and youtube videos won't get things anywhere too