How Powerful is Too Powerful; Augmented Mortals or Cybernetic Gods?

[username_3643957]

How Powerful is Too Powerful; Augmented Mortals or Cybernetic Gods?

Given the fact that there will be many upgrades, specifically Cybernetic Implants that will be available to us to actively customize our characters as we see fit throughout our time of playing their game, among many others, the developers will be faced with a question that will have a significant impact on the gameplay experience that will be Cyberpunk 2077. And that question is: Just how strong are we going to be able to get?

I am in no way familiar with the game mechanics that this game will be based off of, after all it was conceived before I was. So maybe this question is out of place, maybe its answer is clear, but still I must ask:

Will we merely be Augmented Mortals; who may meet their fates at the end of a few well placed bullets, who must flee when faced with overwhelming forces, who feel the danger and adrenaline of every single, dangerous moment?

Or will the extent of our abilities due to our level of implantation allow us to reach a power reminiscent of King Cy's himself, someone who can deflect bullets with their retinas, leap over buildings in a single bound, and throw vehicle after vehicle at groups of 'enemies' until their but a stain on the cold concrete; Will we be Cybernetic Gods?

Perhaps it will be a combination of both; DAMN STRONG, but not 'too powerful'?

Well, that is the very root of this question....How Powerful is Too Powerful?

 

[ChaosWolf1982]

Even a Dragoon-class FBC, who are pretty-much-literally walking tanks, can be killed given enough firepower pointed at it.

 

[username_3643957]

I mean of course we'll be able to be taken down, the danger of death is a core part of the gameplay, but how easy will it be. In the game Prototype, your character is so strong that you can easily go through the hardest difficulty without dying. It's so possible in fact that you get an achievement/trophy for doing so on the consoles.

 

[blank_redge]

For the people that are REALLY metalled up: nothing an EMP blast won't sort out.

(Unless they're hardened, and even then, that's usually reserved for military / Militech / Arasaka.)

 

[username_3641406]

There should always be a offset cost to Implants , bioware and heavy duty cyberware I am not talking just euro either

Such things always cost humanity , loss of humanity should close off some quest lines maybe open others

The less humanity you have the closer you are to cyber-psychosis I think as a limiting factor that if you hit that point its endgame for that character would be in order your brain explodes you get put in the looney bin etc ......................roll up a new toon and try again

 

[blank_redge]

There should always be a offset cost to Implants , bioware and heavy duty cyberware I am not talking just euro either

Such things always cost humanity , loss of humanity should close off some quest lines maybe open others

The less humanity you have the closer you are to cyber-psychosis I think as a limiting factor that if you hit that point its endgame for that character would be in order your brain explodes you get put in the looney bin etc ......................roll up a new toon and try again

Yar; we're having that discussion over here, if you'd like to take a peek.

 

[username_3643957]

So you guys think that the threat of Cybercycosis should be used to limit just how Cyber you can get....That's clever. Might irk those who wanna be fully synthetic though.

 

[Sardukhar]

tough for them - this game isn't for everyone. CDPR even said so! King, check out the links in the FAQ for a grounding in this game setting, but suffice to say, if you build correctly, with or without a Full Body Conversion, ( I prefer without, actually), you can become very very powerful. Much of it has to do with proper skills - Awareness 9 or 10 and it's really very hard to ambush you. EMP-hardened gear is pretty standard for anyone serious, as is Orbital crystal cyberware and European tech, bio and otherwise.

A well-built Solo can kill a half-dozen people in 3 seconds or less, and typically before they can react. If they do, a bevy of defensive implants and penalties come into play.

The really obvious Cyber is for people that like to eat 20mm DPU rounds to the face, frankly. Dragoon is pretty powerful, but it drives you insane. ACPA - powered armour - is also very potent, but weighs a crazy amount and isn't hideable. At all.

More important is going to be the resources CDPR lets us have. Campaigns can range from dirt-level to Orbital. Your ability to hold onto your Eurodollars is often as important as your Humanity.

Lastly, true power often comes not at the end of a gun or cyberhand, but a phone. That wussy Corporate or Media can make ONE CALL and ten or twenty people nearly as tough as you are coming. It's too bad, but I suspect we won' see that side of Cpunk in the videogame medium.

 

[blank_redge]

That wussy Corporate or Media can make ONE CALL and ten or twenty people nearly as tough as you are coming. It's too bad, but I suspect we won' see that side of Cpunk in the videogame medium.

I really, REALLY hope we do.

 

[ChaosWolf1982]

So you guys think that the threat of Cybercycosis should be used to limit just how Cyber you can get....That's clever. Might irk those who wanna be fully synthetic though.

Oh you can be full-borg without going batshit, if you're mentally-stable enough to take it. But even for the stable folks, it's a rather hefty blow.

Think of it as being the difference between Alex J. Murphy becoming Robocop and Cain becoming Robocop 2. Murphy had the empathy and mental stability that he was able to remain sane when he became a cyborg (but it still took a toll on his humanity). Cain lacked Murphy's empathy and stability, and eventually succumbed to cyberpsychosis.

 

[username_3643957]

Damn, you guys are thorough. Thanks for all the info, I guess becoming overpowered is inevitable, if you choose to do so. And I'll check it out Sardukhar, hopefully it'll fill in the blanks.

 

[Sardukhar]

Well, no. Cyberpunk DOES let you become crazy powerful, yes.

But your health never really increases beyond a base pool. Instead you reduce damage as it comes in, but even that has a pretty hard limit and it's low.

So your UberBorg can eat a face-full of HEP rounds and it is over. A face full fired by the 140 lb NCPD cop in the 300eb flak jacket.

 

[kilravok]

Basically, you are a cyberised mortal, no matter how powerful and hard to kill. And I bet you start out as a common meatbag with only just enough chrome and plastic to get through your class's tutorial without dieing. How you develop from there depends on how long you survive and how much you earn to buy new augmentations.

 

[ChaosWolf1982]

Well, no. Cyberpunk DOES let you become crazy powerful, yes.

But your health never really increases beyond a base pool. Instead you reduce damage as it comes in, but even that has a pretty hard limit and it's low.

So your UberBorg can eat a face-full of HEP rounds and it is over. A face full fired by the 140 lb NCPD cop in the 300eb flak jacket.

That's one of the things I like about CP2020 compared to other settings like White Wolf - even the high-end "monster build" characters can be taken out with the right equipment, since the raw stats don't change a hell of a lot, unlike in, say, Vampire: the Masquerade, where an extra point or two in certain abilities catapults you for "slightly above human peak-performance" to "hypersonic-speed, bullet-immune, and punches through reinforced concrete like balsawood".

 

[Dalvyn]

Honestly, I had no idea what Cyberpunk 2020 was before this game, but after reading up on the rules and lore, ( I love me some lore, and I have played a few of PnP games.) I think the best way to do this to balance this is with the Humanity Loss system. It is one of the most interesting systems I have ever seen, and it makes me wish i knew about this game when I was playing DnD so I could have gotten me and my friends into this.

 

[wisdom000]

The lethality is what keeps Cyberpunk 2020 playable long after other games have become boring...

The only thing that really makes a Cyberpunk 2020 game unplayable at the tabletop, is the players getting too much money... and that's entirel;y a player choice... if the players choose to blow it on booze and women and cars, as opposed to guns arm and houses/stability... the game never really stops being fun... If the players aren't juvenile munchkin power gamers, and can actually keep their characters reigned in and realistic, then the game can stay fun pretty much indefinitely.

Hell, even at insanely high levels of play, the game remains fun... There just comes a point in most characters lives, that if they manage to survive to achieve fortune, they have no real need to keep risking their lives... and can afford for others to do it for them, or just retire to the islands somewhere... Cops get taken off the street and promoted to admin roles, Rockers no longer play dives, Solo's disappear, Fixers become crime lords, Corps get to CEO status, Medias become anchors, Netrunners get gigs as security consultants for large software firms... or become netsec oepratives, Medtechs get staff positions or retire to private practice somewhere, Techies start their own product lines, Nomads take leadership roles in their Nations.

Of course that's all taking a lot for granted... and ignoring personalities... but in so far as succes can be measured, thats about the top of the line for the roles... but for every 1 success, 200 bodies of those who would try to reach those heights are left scattered on the streets behind them...

It also means, difference in "levels" (cp doesn't have levels, I use the term here merely to describe the amount of playtime and experience one character might have in comparison to another) which can be game breaking in more traditional rpg's are not as much of an issue with Cyberpunk 2020.

And at any point in the game, no matter how bad that SAS trained Muay Thai expert general of his own army.... can still be taken out by a 12 year old with a zip gun.

Thier are only a handlefull of tabletop games that actually mechanically allow for the kind of tense, dramatic situations that Cyberpunk can create. In DnD, someone holding a crossbow on a high level fighter is no threat, because the fighter can take a couple of blows before he even starts to bleed. In Cyberpunk someone holding a gun on you makes you pay attention, cause that one shot can kill you dead....

The only other games I can think of, that really allow for this type of moment, are Warhammer Fantasy V2, and Epic. And neither of them are anywhere near as cool as cyberpunk. (but they are cooler than everything else).

 

[Dalvyn]

When you have to much money, the best thing to do is RP in a way to try to take this city over, or change the world. When I get to this point, I like to open up the game like that, using my money and resources to make businesses and pay mercenaries to take out rivals.

 

[Tarathelion]

My take on this is, you should not be too powerful. When you do become too powerful combat is trivialised or you get attacked by some powerful enemies just to keep fights challenging (at this point it is ludicrous that somehow out of the blue most of the universum powerful enemies are trying to get you).
Character progress and advancement should be significant enough so you can see actual difference and improvement but you still should have a feeling of vulnerability. For example, at the start of game even 1v1 fights should be challenging enough, later on you should be able to take out several enemies without significant problems. At no point you should be able to become some sort of demigod that kills dozens of enemies like a flies.
I'm not a fan of heroic fantasy (AD&D and such), I am big fan of more realistic approach to pen and paper games. I've played a lot of Warhammer and I think that game had a real good balance in that respect. At the beginning, 1v1 was a fair fight, later on you could take few guys without much problem but at no point you could match really powerful enemies alone. Also, even very advance characters could be killed by single arrow if you were really unlucky with rolls

 

[Sydanyo]

My take on this is, you should not be too powerful. When you do become too powerful combat is trivialised or you get attacked by some powerful enemies just to keep fights challenging (at this point it is ludicrous that somehow out of the blue most of the universum powerful enemies are trying to get you).

What makes you powerful in Cyberpunk 2020? A big part of it is your cyberware. What does Cyberpunk 2020 have that has been designed for that specific purpose? C-SWAT.

If you become "too powerful" due to your augments, C-SWAT will soon be on your ass, and it won't be ludicrous at all. That's what they do. That's what they're there for. And they will take you down, eventually.

How that would translate into Cyberpunk 2077, I'm not sure. Perhaps you can gain infamy, and once you're well enough known, there will be random encounters where C-SWAT will try and apprehend you.

 

[Tarathelion]

What makes you powerful in Cyberpunk 2020? A big part of it is your cyberware. What does Cyberpunk 2020 have that has been designed for that specific purpose? C-SWAT.

If you become "too powerful" due to your augments, C-SWAT will soon be on your ass, and it won't be ludicrous at all. That's what they do. That's what they're there for. And they will take you down, eventually.

How that would translate into Cyberpunk 2077, I'm not sure. Perhaps you can gain infamy, and once you're well enough known, there will be random encounters where C-SWAT will try and apprehend you.

The problem is, it is difficult to implement without turning it into some gta kind of game. Also, if you want to keep it real, infamy could not be reduced so you would have to deal with police non stop. As for ludicrous comment, there are plenty of fantasy games where you have to fight dragons, demons and some other epic enemies at every corner. I want to avoid things like that (not dragons and demons as they don't exist in cyberpunk but powerful enemies that fit in cyberpunk - while they exist, the likelihood of crossing several of them just to keep game difficulty up does not seem very real to me).