How the latest expansion promotes boring gameplay (?)

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I see this latest expansion fanatically supports some rather boring and REPETITIVE gameplay paths with the mechanics it introduces, I'll elaborate.

First - the concept of "devotion" - rewards you for limiting your choice of cards for your deck which results in people having less diverse decks and you ending up seeing the same decks over and over again.

Second - the idea of "Echo" cards, it's just the same card being played again, allowing you to (instead of coming up with a new move) just play the exact same thing again!

I'd rather have for example in one game to see 5 different things happen once then to see 1 thing happen 5 times. -.- Playing Oneiromancy just removes the idea of having to think of more then one tactic since you don't have to worry about not drawing the exact card you need to make THAT ONE move that you want to focus on. Basically you can get away always with having just PLAN A, you don't need to worry about plans B or C since the probability of plan A working out is so high if you have Oneiromancy 2 times (in combination with other cards ofc). :] ...Chain-summoning 3-5 cards in one move.

My point is that the risk of not getting the cards you need to make your nuclear blast move (and repeating it) is just too damn low. Maybe I'm not seeing it right and just am not experienced enough or slow at adapting though, idk. :/ What do you people think?
 
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Devotion is a choice with a trade-off. You're not forced into it. Actually, it creates a greater diversity because almost no player had a deck without neutrals before. Anyway, it seems that Devotion is not strong enough to become dominant.

I kinda agree with Echo, though.
 
How about that NG Echo card that spawns and plays any unit from your opponent's deck +2 damage? That's totally balanced for assimilate decks. I sure do hope no one remembers that card until they fix Assire/Scenario then people start complaining about it.
 

DRK3

Forum veteran
I dont know why OP scratched the 1st critic on Devotion, i partially agree with it.
Devotion is a cool concept, but its not realized to its full potential. Most factions devotion benefits simply arent enough to compensate for the lack of powerful neutrals you're giving up on. Not to mention devotion drives deckbuilding into predictable (and that means boring) area, where you just know what to expect.

On the second point, I like the Echo mechanic, but i do agree the game is getting too consistent, which is kind of ironic, when that was one of the reasons (if im not mistaken) pointed out by the devs for the justification of the reboot Gwent had between betas and Homecoming.
Also, its important to balance the faction-specific echo cards, SK and NR need a nerf, MO's needs a buff, ST needs a complete rework.
 
How about that NG Echo card that spawns and plays any unit from your opponent's deck +2 damage? That's totally balanced for assimilate decks. I sure do hope no one remembers that card until they fix Assire/Scenario then people start complaining about it.
It needs deathblow (with two damage) or spying to trigger by the way. Amphibious Assault and Blood Eagle are way better, I never use Coup de Grace in my decks.
 
It needs deathblow (with two damage) or spying to trigger by the way. Amphibious Assault and Blood Eagle are way better, I never use Coup de Grace in my decks.

Works with spies really well. Cantarella and the 2 point gang can put in nasty work with that card and at worst, it re-triggers a bronze spy or gets a card you damaged previously. It's a very, very good card but only in spies or a deck that can get high value targets down to 2 points easily.
 
I see this latest expansion fanatically supports some rather boring and REPETITIVE gameplay paths with the mechanics it introduces, I'll elaborate.

First - the concept of "devotion" - rewards you for limiting your choice of cards for your deck which results in people having less diverse decks and you ending up seeing the same decks over and over again.

Second - the idea of "Echo" cards, it's just the same card being played again, allowing you to (instead of coming up with a new move) just play the exact same thing again!

I'd rather have for example in one game to see 5 different things happen once then to see 1 thing happen 5 times. -.- Playing Oneiromancy just removes the idea of having to think of more then one tactic since you don't have to worry about not drawing the exact card you need to make THAT ONE move that you want to focus on. Basically you can get away always with having just PLAN A, you don't need to worry about plans B or C since the probability of plan A working out is so high if you have Oneiromancy 2 times (in combination with other cards ofc). :] ...Chain-summoning 3-5 cards in one move.

My point is that the risk of not getting the cards you need to make your nuclear blast move (and repeating it) is just too damn low. Maybe I'm not seeing it right and just am not experienced enough or slow at adapting though, idk. :/ What do you people think?

Edit: Okay, on second thought, it forget about Devotion, it's not the problem, but let's focus on other parts. :)
Other than the devotion bit I agree but you seem to have rethought that anyway.
I made a similar thread complaining about all the tutors introduced and how it makes the game stale, but I completely forgot the Echo part. To me it's a mixed bag and again it boils down to tutoring being a problem. I think some of them are fine cards like Shaping Nature and Coup De Grace, then there's the tutors. Why would they introduce this concept then just make most of them such broad tutors with hardly any risk? It's a given that those would be auto-include. Royal Decree was already a thing being used, doubling it and giving it a measly 2 more provisions? Cmon. And the factions having even more tutors are top tier. Big surprise right? No.
Other than the tutors I love a lot of the new cards and I really feel like this would be one great expansion without those. Now with them I think they've done some serious damage to the game and they will limit design space, unless provisions are adjusted or their effect more limited.
Even on reveal I shook my head at Oneiromancy, it's lazy and short-term thinking.
But I'm rambling so I'll leave it at that.
 
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Works with spies really well. Cantarella and the 2 point gang can put in nasty work with that card and at worst, it re-triggers a bronze spy or gets a card you damaged previously. It's a very, very good card but only in spies or a deck that can get high value targets down to 2 points easily.
Haven't seen this card for quite a long time now, only back then when there was still some experimenting going on at the start of the season. It can be great in a short round with Joachim I guess.
 
I'm not sure why echo puts the second copy on the top of your deck. It should at least shuffle it back into your deck.
True, this seems excessive. There are ways to tutor most of them anyway. Just make Ard Gaeth organic or something, maybe not the most sensical thing lorewise but still.
Blood Eagle doesn't deserve to be tutorable.
 
Haven't seen this card for quite a long time now, only back then when there was still some experimenting going on at the start of the season. It can be great in a short round with Joachim I guess.

Works wonders with him to be honest and is very consistent to pull out.
 
Another way to compensate for echo units is to put in cards that have effects when echo cards are played. At the moment Oneiromancy is OP imo, especially against a Devoted deck; it'd be more variable if there were some consequence to using your echo card. Like, if opponent plays echo card x effect happens and have them be persistant in some fashion, e.g. fulfill x condition to give counter card resilience.
 
Oneiromancy is absolutely OP, and as they make it more expensive to try to compensate, all they do is make it more binary - i.e. draw it and you can win, don't draw it and you will lose.

Consistency is a funny old thing. You want it to make games more based on skill and yet too much of it, and it leads to boring repetitive affairs where there's little wiggle room for excitement.
 
Oneiromancy is absolutely OP, and as they make it more expensive to try to compensate, all they do is make it more binary - i.e. draw it and you can win, don't draw it and you will lose.

Consistency is a funny old thing. You want it to make games more based on skill and yet too much of it, and it leads to boring repetitive affairs where there's little wiggle room for excitement.

All these could've been addressed if we had a MORE BALANCED meta state.
No wonder Bushr found the game to be so toxic lately coz playing ranked just feels like the game becomes "who draws better will win"
 
The problem is that Oneiromancy and all the Echo cards are way too strong for Echo to be a reasonable addition. They should be single use and then have Echo on cards that have less of an impact like "damage an enemy unit by x". Any time I encounter the Scoia'tael Echo card in Arena I know I'm screwed.
 
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