How to counter Scoia'tael do empty deck and escape Northern Realm PFI deck?

+
Status
Not open for further replies.
How to counter Scoia'tael do empty deck and escape Northern Realm PFI deck?

Hi,

I don't know why CDPR allow this. I feel two of deck ruin this game. I feel it very unfair with Monster and Skellige deck.

I have 100% lose when match with these deck. I have try many time to counter but useless.

Everytime when I see that deck I really want to give up at first round. I feel tired, very tired.

I hate you CDPR. I waiting for patch when you will fix it but more than one month and nothing happen.


 
You do realize this question has been asked countless of times before. Search the forums for an answer. I can't even be bothered anymore to link it. Also, was it necessary to make two separate threads with only a different thread title? And on top of that in a very whiny tone?

:facepalm:
 
4RM3D;n7586160 said:
You do realize this question has been asked countless of times before
I know and already read it. But I try and I can't counter it. So I just trust better answer and fix from CDPR.

4RM3D;n7586160 said:
Also, was it necessary to make two separate threads with only a different thread title?
So sorry. It's lagging and I ask Mod delete one of them.
 
4RM3D You see, I already read on some post and demote Ciri Dash and use weather on Roach while they buff with Mutagen. But at last, I still lose. Because they have all bronze in battlefield and effect card to destroy my strength. So I must use all my strongest card to able to win. But at the end... Same thing with NR deck. I can win one round but not two because these are too strong.
 
Last edited:
For ST, make sure you win the first round, no matter what. Then in the second round use your spies to get card advantage (or reduce disadvantage). Always keep Mardroeme/Lacerate and remove as many mercs as you can.

For NR, well the above actually also works for NR, except you target PFI and Mardroeme expensive silvers (like King of Beggars).

In the end though, there will also be a Rock-Paper-Scissors meta and your deck will always be weak against a certain tactic/faction. ST and NR are at the top for a reason. They are difficult to beat, but not impossible.
 
The real issue with PFI decks is that they can pretty much win with a good chance even if the PFI strategy is countered. Reavers, Stripes, Elites along superior resurrection capabilities will pretty much keep the deck alive.

Regardless, I blame all of this on the bronze card "Mardroeme" which has the value of a silver card.

Maybe next patch will address these issues.
 
4RM3D;n7586470 said:
For ST, make sure you win the first round, no matter what. Then in the second round use your spies to get card advantage (or reduce disadvantage). Always keep Mardroeme/Lacerate and remove as many mercs as you can.

You are very wrong if u think that skellige can fight round 1 and it's basicly gg if u even try. The only chance skellige has is to pass round 1 early ( no cards or just play pirate if u run them or throw spy then pass ) then next round use ocvist and basicly u have to keep him alive or u lose game. Your mardro target is almost always ship or ocvist. Using mardro to deny merc is very situational and usually not worth it.

Only real counter to Scoiatael can be monsters somehow or other scoiatael nothing else.
 
Last edited:
I win 50/50 against both of those strategies so they feel annoying due to how often you see them but not OP to me. But the thread title got me thinking... what's the best way to prevent ST deck-burning... so today I built a monster heavy weather + removal deck to see if I could force the ST opponent to use the clear skies rather than rally in order to prevent them from weeding their deck down to all golds for the final round... it kinda works, still messing around with it. I enjoy building decks that serve no other purpose than to break up deck archetypes and disrupt people's mindlessly predictable plays.
 
I am running a ST deck myself and ST is not strong as you claim. Best way to counter it with brute strength. Your claim is not true. Also when countering PFI don't remove them from board and try to keep them weak as much as possible.
 
Snfonseka;n7590520 said:
I am running a ST deck myself and ST is not strong as you claim. Best way to counter it with brute strength. Your claim is not true. Also when countering PFI don't remove them from board and try to keep them weak as much as possible.

If you wish to win the first round that is true. But PFI does not use PFI only to be dangerous. They can start a bid war in the first round with other cards weakening your hand first then shroom their PFIs. Next round they can use Shani and wait (if they win the first round). Then the last round they can simply resurrect Shani.

The deck is cheesy beyond imagination and it chokes the fun out of game currently.

(Noting that I generally use Monster and Skellige decks)

Am I able to win against PFI? Yes.

Is it easy? Not really.

Is it fun? Not really.

Currently PFI is not a total deck theme but simply a sub-tactic where the deck can win pretty much with other things at its disposal.
 
Last edited:
@OP For ST, let them draw their deck playing your spies and your Mardroemes on whoever they're playing them(Olgierd/Roach, being Olgierd highest priority if you can leave him at 2 hp), when they pass or have deployed enough creatures a Stammelford's Tremors/Yennefer+Harald or Coral+Aard will pretty much wipe their side. They will let you start second round, pass instantly and you will get 1 CA(as long as Olgierd hasn't been played or was left at 2- hp) and you will have a third round where you can pull your res combos and they will have more cards than just their golds, so you get the advantage.
All this said, you need all the CA generators you can have vs ST and sometimes they will still have more, but if you want to stand a chance that's the only way i've found.

For NR you want to lose first round, if your deck has decent AoE removal tools(Stammelford's Tremors,Yennefer,Lacerate,Manticore Venom...), play your Pirate and pass, if not i'll assume you're running Mardroemes, so counter as many as you can and pass when you're out of them, if they do all the buffing on turn one it's fine, just make sure you have scorch or Igni ready for the exact moment before they promote, if you don't you could have troubles, but a well timed Lacerate can do wonders, Dimeritium bomb also works well on this matchup and Harald's ability is godly. Most of the time you can do enough damage in 3 plays after they pass and you will have enough CA if you take my advice. On turn 3 you want to start with Sigrdrifa to get her buffed from their res chains and Savage Bear if you're running any(which you probably aren't, because everybody seems to run the same 4 bronze creatures on Skellige, except me). Why Savage Bear? Because as long as it's on the field they can't res anything with Baron's Lubberkin.
I got around 90% win rate vs NR since i started recording my stats with Gwent Tracker, ST is plain broken in every single way(and i guess that's the reason why 60% of my played games at rank 11+ are vs ST), but you can expect a 50% or even higher win rate with the appropriate tools and decisions, i have more problems vs Monsters, but they're simply missing from 3000+.

OwNeDUp;n7588990 said:
You are very wrong if u think that skellige can fight round 1 and it's basicly gg if u even try.
It's you who is wrong mate. I agree that mostly Skellige's round 1 is too weak in exchange for a stronger 3rd round, which is lame, because 1st round means getting to decide how many cards are played on 2nd round, plus 3rd round is the shortest one 99% of the time and some games won't even have it, but, all that said, the real reason why you can't fight for first round most of the time is because nobody runs turn 1 pressure cards on Skellige. And we have them, a single War Longship can put lots of pressure while playing your discards, 2 can unleash hell. Clan An Craite Raiders are pretty good turn 1 pressure cards too, as well as Berserkers can be a huge threat when paired with Haralds ability and they can be played on turn one as long as you managed to discard them; but if you expect to have any kind of turn 1 pressure running 2-3 Mardroemes and 2-3 Shieldsmiths, then you can forget about it, that's the tradeoff of base strength boosting.

OwNeDUp;n7588990 said:
Only real counter to Scoiatael can be monsters somehow or other scoiatael nothing else.
Scoia'tael's real counter is the same as for every other faction, having as much CA as you can, the problems with this are:
1. It's weird as fuck and the game shouldn't work like this, because, as more CA cards are added in the future, i can see everybody running every gold and silver who can provide it and ignoring synergy cards, regardless of their deck.
2. As Skellige, you're left with no choice for silvers: Decoy, Ocvist, Donar, Udalryk, with the other 2 being Restore and Sigrdrifa, which are just another proof of Skellige's poor design, cause there's no way you can build a deck that doesn't benefit from playing both and 3 Priestesses of Freya.
 
Last edited:
TheWalkingHawking;n7592470 said:
It's you who is wrong mate. I agree that mostly Skellige's round 1 is too weak in exchange for a stronger 3rd round, which is lame, because 1st round means getting to decide how many cards are played on 2nd round, plus 3rd round is the shortest one 99% of the time and some games won't even have it, but, all that said, the real reason why you can't fight for first round most of the time is because nobody runs turn 1 pressure cards on Skellige. And we have them, a single War Longship can put lots of pressure while playing your discards, 2 can unleash hell. Clan An Craite Raiders are pretty good turn 1 pressure cards too, as well as Berserkers can be a huge threat when paired with Haralds ability and they can be played on turn one as long as you managed to discard them; but if you expect to have any kind of turn 1 pressure running 2-3 Mardroemes and 2-3 Shieldsmiths, then you can forget about it, that's the tradeoff of base strength boosting.

I'm not wrong i can beat skellige in round 1 with Scoiatael all day long they just can't keep up with 1st light chains thining deck and even if they win that round somehow ( aard + coral only way probably ) it wouldn't bother me because they still have at least8 cards in deck and i will have empty deck in round 2 if they leet me thin so im going to win anyway. The only way skellige can beat ST is to pass early and hope that u can win shroom / buff war with ocvist. Still it's very hard i didnt lose single match as Scoiatael between 2000 - 3500 mmr against skellige.

TheWalkingHawking;n7592470 said:
Scoia'tael's real counter is the same as for every other faction, having as much CA as you can, the problems with this are:
1. It's weird as fuck and the game shouldn't work like this, because, as more CA cards are added in the future, i can see everybody running every gold and silver who can provide it and ignoring synergy cards, regardless of their deck.
2. As Skellige, you're left with no choice for silvers: Decoy, Ocvist, Donar, Udalryk, with the other 2 being Restore and Sigrdrifa, which are just another proof of Skellige's poor design, cause there's no way you can build a deck that doesn't benefit from playing both and 3 Priestesses of Freya.

So basicly u are saying there's no counter to ST and it's kinda true. Nobody can make card advantage in this matchup ( except another ST or lucky ocvist skellige). The thing is that ST is OP and thats the fact they are dominating since november and it's not getting any better. Only counter right now as i said is monster buff deck abusing lack of hard removals in top ST deck but more and more ppl started using igni right now in ST so it's really hard matchup for monsters anyway.
 
Last edited:
Ugralitan;n7590590 said:
If you wish to win the first round that is true. But PFI does not use PFI only to be dangerous. They can start a bid war in the first round with other cards weakening your hand first then shroom their PFIs. Next round they can use Shani and wait (if they win the first round). Then the last round they can simply resurrect Shani.

The deck is cheesy beyond imagination and it chokes the fun out of game currently.

(Noting that I generally use Monster and Skellige decks)

I'm Skellige as well, and whenever I see Foltest I pray 'please, let it be a PFI deck!'. What's wrong with your deck, that you do not make 80-90% against PFI? It's just NR trying to play like Skellige (preparing a giant resurrection for the last round), this might dismay monsters (careteker infantry? no, griffon infantry and then careteker Nenneke! and then decoy her, griffon another infantry and use her again!) but of course Skellige will be better at its own game!

(hint: you can pass the very moment you see the first PFI played - he will shroom them, but he would shroom them anyway, and that way you gain a lot of card advantage in exchange)

(hint: you can lacerate the first PFI, he will resurrect one of them and you will steal the other one with Udalryk - and now you are both playing PFI, except that you have much better resurrection and on top of shrooms you can use skalds, and your PFI will be growing in strength each round anyway)

The normal NR is zillion times more difficult to play against.

 
Wow, all your comment have a lot information here. Thank to you all. For summary, this two deck not easy to counter as Skellige while our opponents easy to play that without problem however we counter. Beside, we need individual deck to counter that. But seem, as Skellige not have any strong deck and vulnerable when build it. So, I give up for now. Better waiting for next patch.

But CDPR does not promise anything, and maybe they think these deck are legit and intended since they leave it for a month even not change after hot fix at 0.8.37 patch .
 
rams142857;n7592670 said:
I'm Skellige as well, and whenever I see Foltest I pray 'please, let it be a PFI deck!'. What's wrong with your deck, that you do not make 80-90% against PFI? It's just NR trying to play like Skellige (preparing a giant resurrection for the last round), this might dismay monsters (careteker infantry? no, griffon infantry and then careteker Nenneke! and then decoy her, griffon another infantry and use her again!) but of course Skellige will be better at its own game!

(hint: you can pass the very moment you see the first PFI played - he will shroom them, but he would shroom them anyway, and that way you gain a lot of card advantage in exchange)

(hint: you can lacerate the first PFI, he will resurrect one of them and you will steal the other one with Udalryk - and now you are both playing PFI, except that you have much better resurrection and on top of shrooms you can use skalds, and your PFI will be growing in strength each round anyway)

The normal NR is zillion times more difficult to play against.

You disregarded the point. The issue is not whether you can win against PFI or not. The matter is a well-built NR can pretty much win despite countering PFI.

Your hints are very situational and not playable against those who do not completely rely on PFI. And any sane NR player would not completely rely on one tactic.

About griffons, they are basically 6 str dead cards against decks which do not rely on resurrection. So you meet another Monster deck and got a bad mulligan ending with Griffons in the hand...you might as well give a hand to enemy Caretaker. Though they have limited power against Scoia'tael decks by allowing you to steal troublesome cards like Aeromancy.
 
OwNeDUp;n7592630 said:
So basicly u are saying there's no counter to ST and it's kinda true.

Totally untrue. Skellige, rank 12, of all opponents my best results are against ST (good thing that I meet them so often). And I don't even field Ocvist, too boring for my taste.

Do not confuse winning card advantage and winning the game, ST is noticeably better with the former than with the latter. Hell, ST lives and dies with card advantage, it's their freaking faction skill, if somebody was able to regularly gain card advantage on them, it would mean the faction is completely broken. But card advantage can be overpowered, if you carefully prepare your side of the board. And Skellige, with great variety of bronze cards (your whole graveyard is your restaurant menu, do play many types of bronzes and you will have many options how to use them in the last round) and with powerful golds (Coral is fantastic, because opponent does not want to waste Aglais to summon first light, especially after he played the first aeromancy himself; Hjalmar is a 25pts gold brick invulnerable to all those Milvas, scorches and aeromancies) plus with general high power in the third round, is just the faction to regularly win with card disadvantage.
 
Well lucky but i doubt u faced top ST players / decks. Coral is alright if ppl don't have aglais or 1st light and well usually u want to 1st light since most of the ppl are playing without aeromancy so Aglais is always shroom / lacerate or sometimes 1st light. I just can't see how skellige can beat ST with brouver ciri dash reguraly it just cannot happen. Sometimes u might win if they leet u buff ship a lot and u have lets say horn but im sure top ST decks can easily get at least 70% win rate against skellige.
 
Last edited:
Ugralitan;n7592890 said:
You disregarded the point. The issue is not whether you can win against PFI or not. The matter is a well-built NR can pretty much win despite countering PFI.

NR with PFI is not well-built already. It does not have scorch or Villentretenmerth and is check full of useless mardroemes (and let's not forget the other copies of PFI). What is he going to do with them, buff Baron??

Anyway, I don't really care about your point. I empirically checked, what happens when I meet PFI. Checked many times. Answer: PFI gets trampled upon, most of the time. And your opinion that PFI is unbeatable is just that, your opinion. If you cannot regularly beat them with the deck you use - change your deck, there are much more dangerous things out there than PFI.

Ugralitan;n7592890 said:
Your hints are very situational and not playable against those who do not completely rely on PFI. And any sane NR player would not completely rely on one tactic.

My second hint is not situational at all - except if the situation is defined as 'the opponent deploys PFI at all'. Yes, PFI player who keeps all the infantries in his hand to the last plays of the game can avoid that...


Ugralitan;n7592890 said:
About griffons, they are basically 6 str dead cards against decks which do not rely on resurrection. So you meet another Monster deck and got a bad mulligan ending with Griffons in the hand...you might as well give a hand to enemy Caretaker. Though they have limited power against Scoia'tael decks by allowing you to steal troublesome cards like Aeromancy.

I'm not monsters specialist, but did you just say that griffons are only fantastic against NR, ST and Skellige, while against fellow monster player they are merely bronze 6+2+2 (any foglet you steal is one you have and he does not)? You poor guy, you, they gave you such useless cards...
 
OwNeDUp;n7593330 said:
Well lucky but i doubt u faced top ST players / decks.

I mentioned my rank, you can decide for yourself whether the players and decks I regularly meet are any good.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom