how to deal with an craite greatsword decks?

[EvilShuckle]

I doubt I will get a response considering this sub forum hasn't had any post in the last 4 months, but anyway: How do I deal with the an craite greatsword/longship decks?
While I do believe I've won the majority, it feels very... well, cheap. I need to play very carefully and smart to stand a chance, while people with that deck just put greatsword next to longship and it's almost won. There is little you can do about it. If you lock them, they will just be revived after they die and they are back, unlocked and continue at whatever base power they were at. Killing them and they just get revived right after. Pass after they've set up, and they will just all be revived the next round. Mandrake them, and it barely changes anything as it is not boosted but strengthened. Damage them and they just grow stronger. So what can you do about it, other than not interact with them at all and hope you have more points at the end than they do?

 

[4RM3D]

Eithné control with Artefact Compression/Mandrake is very good against Craiteswords. For AC, it's usually better to target the Ships, rather than the Greatswords themselves.

Another way is using graveyard hate. Saving a single Vicovaro Medic for the 3rd round is usually a sure way to win, if you can start the round, that is. Monsters also have Caretaker and Ozzrel.

 

[Khreygond]

I doubt I will get a response considering this sub forum hasn't had any post in the last 4 months, but anyway: How do I deal with the an craite greatsword/longship decks?
While I do believe I've won the majority, it feels very... well, cheap. I need to play very carefully and smart to stand a chance, while people with that deck just put greatsword next to longship and it's almost won. There is little you can do about it. If you lock them, they will just be revived after they die and they are back, unlocked and continue at whatever base power they were at. Killing them and they just get revived right after. Pass after they've set up, and they will just all be revived the next round. Mandrake them, and it barely changes anything as it is not boosted but strengthened. Damage them and they just grow stronger. So what can you do about it, other than not interact with them at all and hope you have more points at the end than they do?

Kill a lot of them or kill them permanently. I don't know what you play, but generally, when I play against them, there are some key actions to take

As MO
- lose round 1. You want to lose round 1 so that you go first in round 3 and can steal/eat their big greatsword or Djenge with Caretaker/Ozzrel. Prioritize taking out the greatsword because chances are your opponent won't revive Djenge until they've got at least 2 units on the board, or Harald Houndsnout.

As NG
- Reveal (either with Letho Regis, or the classic one with Scorch and Villentretenmerth. Calveit Reveal can also work if you preserve your Vicovaro Medic), Soldiers and Alchemy all can deal with Greatswords one way or another. The one that really appears to be a counter GS deck, but isn't, actually, is spies, which has a bit of a harder time, but it can also work wonders if you set up your engine because you'll be getting more points in the long round.

As NR
- Temerian Foltest has enough removal to target all the Greatswords I believe. Especially if you run margarita. Failing that, develop your own Redanian Knight elects and you can probably go toe to toe with them in the long round

As ST
- Control heavy decks should have no trouble beating GS really. Swordmasters for example, probably the only thing that's got a positive winrate for Eithne. Especially if you play with Vrihedd Dragoons, since the GS deck is very proactive and passive

As SK
- Not so sure, I don't particularly like the faction. I guess you can move their ships around until no ship has a GS target.


In general you can:

- Develop an engine yourself to match them in a longer round
- run hard control (AC/Muzzle/Mandrake/scorch)
- run a lot of control (viper witchers and 3 resurrections onto them. or Spell'tael with a lot of thunder capabilities)
- run graveyard hate (caretaker/ozzrel/necromancy/Vicovaro medic) Make sure to lose Round 1 in this case, but not too soon if you can help it

 

[devivre]

Yeah, it really depends on the deck you are playing. Shutting down the engines right away can be helpful if your deck is running enough removal. In some cases, you can also go for the GS and let scorch do the rest.

Monster and NG can steal from the graveyard. But as was mentioned before, you might need to go first in round 3 to do that.

Sometimes people let GS grow a bit, damage it and use Muzzle, but that's risky because a lot of GS players will just Mandrake the GS to counter it.

 

[EvilShuckle]

My best running decks is a wither down deck that uses weather and small bits of damage in order to win long rounds. An absolute nightmare against them, because whatever I do helps them. Thanks to it containing a lot of tricks I win most still, but it is very nasty. The other is a monster deck, and your suggestion, @Khreygond, of using caretaker sounds like a very good idea, I hadn't thought of that.

Problem with graveyard hate is that you actually have to have a good deck around it, because just emptying their graveyard won't achieve much. Like ozzrel isn't a great card (in my opinion) unless the opponent actually does something with revival.

Suppose muzzle isn't bad to throw in there, good way to counter many engines.

Sure archtypes within factions are great against them but I was hoping more of a general way of dealing with them, one that you can use for all so I don't have to change a faction to deal with them. Artefect compression is a good idea too. But how would mandrake work? Don't they stay with base power they have at that moment -6?

Thanks for the ideas in general guys, I can use that!

 

[Khreygond]

My best running decks is a wither down deck that uses weather and small bits of damage in order to win long rounds. An absolute nightmare against them, because whatever I do helps them. Thanks to it containing a lot of tricks I win most still, but it is very nasty. The other is a monster deck, and your suggestion, @Khreygond, of using caretaker sounds like a very good idea, I hadn't thought of that.

Problem with graveyard hate is that you actually have to have a good deck around it, because just emptying their graveyard won't achieve much. Like ozzrel isn't a great card (in my opinion) unless the opponent actually does something with revival.

Suppose muzzle isn't bad to throw in there, good way to counter many engines.

Sure archtypes within factions are great against them but I was hoping more of a general way of dealing with them, one that you can use for all so I don't have to change a faction to deal with them. Artefect compression is a good idea too. But how would mandrake work? Don't they stay with base power they have at that moment -6?

Thanks for the ideas in general guys, I can use that!

Mandrake can be used onto the super boosted ships later in the round, or you can use it onto Greatswords if you combine it with other hard removal like AC and Muzzle to deprive them of useable Greatswords. They've got 3 and a lot of resurrections, so if you muzzle the one, compress the other, you can mandrake the last one so that it will take at least 6 turns just to get it back to 8 strength.

If you are playing monsters, Caretaker is a big help against virtually everything except Nilfgaard, and even then, they might play the Guardian, a good thing to pick up. There is a good sizeable card to eat with ozzrel in virtually every deck (card advantage spies, Assire, Germain, Greatswords, Djenge, The Guardian, Cleaver).

Graveyard hate, if you want it to synergize with something, and you don't want to switch factions, it works best in consume decks, because Ozzrel will boost your nekkers and the Caretaker can steal Skjal to play the Toad Prince from your deck against Veterans and other non-GS SK. That last one is my favorite combo in consume and I always pull it off against Veterans for 33 points or so, depending on what the Toad Prince consumes.

I don't know what your primary faction is however. The general ways involve the 4 points above, with each faction using one (NG, depending on the deck ,can either use a lot of removal in the case of alchemy, or graveyard hate with the likes of Assire and vicovaro medic. While MO will focus more on Graveyard hate. ST would prefer hard control because they can tutor special cards and replay them like no one else. NR would prefer to just run a lot of control with a bit of engines to kill as many as they can and match the rest in passive point generation)

Good luck Most people, I've found, play GS because it's a good deck, not because they know how to pilot it particularly better than other decks.

 

[EvilShuckle]

I tried caretaker, it was perfect. I let him set up, did as you said, khreygond. It was hilarious. I let him win first round, I won the second (like barely, with only a few points difference), and then bam, got a 31 point greatsword. I was impressed the opponent didn't rage quit right away.

And yeah, that's what bothering me. That it is such an easy deck to play. It doesn't require thinking. They just drop these two cards next to each other and wait. If someone won by playing well, then fair enough, I don't mind and I'll happily give them that gg 5 resource thing. But it always feels so cheap when they win with that.

 

[Rawls]

In my Fran/Shupe deck I tech out to counter it (also works brilliantly against nekkers too but has trouble with Alchemy builds and Foltest). Nature's Gift, Mandrake, Artifact Compression and Muzzle. When playing against Greatswords, use Fran to grab Muzzle if you dont already have it. Then grab the first great sword when it gets ticked down to 7 so it comes your your side and boosts to ten. Your more likely than not to have at least two of Nature's Gift, Mandrake and AC. Artifact Compress the greatsword they summon with Crach, and mandrake the other one. It works pretty well.

 

[Silas4179]

This one hasn't been mentioned yet so I'll point out Eskel: Pathfinder also works well against GS. A last-play Eskel (or any time he doesn't have more resurrections up his sleeves) is frequently worth a lot of points. As long as you're running a 13spy (and not getting it out through ADC) he's generally playable. Dudu can also pull value against GS, assuming he doesn't get reset or compressed.

Locks do work well against GS if you use them in R3. In R3 they can't revive a locked GS and they tend not to have any unlocks so it takes a GS out of commission unless they manage to do enough damage to kill it and then res it. As long as they don't get to aggressively grow their GS in earlier rounds and retain value as a high-point play (you may want to give the GS player shorter rounds to prevent a big GS), it will shut down their GS nicely.

In early rounds, Artifact Compression and Muzzle are probably among the nastiest GS counters, as they not only remove the GS but also deny him a rez.