How to keep QG viable

[shroudb]

How to keep QG viable

My opinions:
QG went from 3-5 immediately to 3.
Buff them to base strength 4 as the middle of the road. Happens to dodge being directly banished by shrooms as well.

in addition, change Vico medic by adding:
when the ressed unit dies it returns to it's original graveyard.

 

[Rammyp]

QG are ok as the are now, its the bear nerf thats going to kill this deck vs NG

 

[DanielSens]

Your VM suggestion is good. Damn graveyard hackers xD...

QG should be lockable and get Veteran back.

Bear nerf is fair.

 

[shroudb]

QG are ok as the are now, its the bear nerf thats going to kill this deck vs NG

the 6-8 point nerf is going to kill it vs everything else.

just as perspective:
using you hero power AND a silver just so that you'll have something like a 16 point play t3...

basing your full strategy around QG you end up, if 100% uniterupted, with something like 32 point play (using hero power, 1 gold, 6 bronzes, 3 silvers, etc)
basing your full strategy around reveal/spells/etc makes EACH respective bronze a 16+, also can't be "interrutped"

 

[Rammyp]

the 6-8 point nerf is going to kill it vs everything else.

just as perspective:
using you hero power AND a silver just so that you'll have something like a 16 point play t3...

basing your full strategy around QG you end up, if 100% uniterupted, with something like 32 point play (using hero power, 1 gold, 6 bronzes, 3 silvers, etc)
basing your full strategy around reveal/spells/etc makes EACH respective bronze a 16+, also can't be "interrutped"

Didn't see that the veteran status was taken away. Where was it posted?

That's the link to the upcoming changes i know of:
https://www.reddit.com/r/gwent/comments/6fl2f3/upcoming_changes_info_from_cn_ptr_server/

 

[PandaLin]

I think even if you play Queensguard you shouldn't use them as 100% win condition. I played Queensguard in the close beta and I also use other cards to win the game. I think weather might be helpful and also add some bears if they really steal my guards. My biggest fear is Letho....omg Letho and D-bomb really make me cry.

 

[shroudb]

Didn't see that the veteran status was taken away. Where was it posted?

That's the link to the upcoming changes i know of:
https://www.reddit.com/r/gwent/comments/6fl2f3/upcoming_changes_info_from_cn_ptr_server/

in the actual stream

 

[shroudb]

I think even if you play Queensguard you shouldn't use them as 100% win condition. I played Queensguard in the close beta and I also use other cards to win the game. I think weather might be helpful and also add some bears if they really steal my guards. My biggest fear is Letho....omg Letho and D-bomb really make me cry.

problem is, that at this point, if you don't specifically build for QG, they are some of the worst bronze units in the game: 3/3/3 that just ressurect each other, basically, it makes your freyas a 10 power play. Every other bronze is worth more to rez than triple QG if you don't buff them up at this point. To really understand how horrible the 3 power is: BAsically EVERY unit that has that, either plays another card alongside it OR plays itself from the deck (basically is "free" strength)

i mean, why bother ressurect 3 QG (that you haven't buffed) (10 power play) if a simple warrior is a 12 point play that also synergizes with other stuff? and etc

that's why i said they need AT MINIMUM TO BE A 4 strength (at leat be a vanilla 13 point play)

edit: bears are also worthless after the upcoming nerf for QG decks. They synergize with nothing

Again:
3 power in this game is what amounts to "free" power (eithr plays itself, or comes alongside another full card)



edit2:
another solution would be Cerys ressurecting them (or bringing them out of your deck alternative, not both) herself when she comes into play. Fits thematically and fits alongside the 3 power of the cards

 

[RickMelethron]

the 6-8 point nerf is going to kill it vs everything else.

no, it won't; the only reason why QG isn't more played is the weakness to monsters and the straight-up defeat to nilfgaard.

the deck can put a lot of pressure if you play it properly, and can consistently get ~30 power with one card in round 3

 

[shroudb]

no, it won't; the only reason why QG isn't more played is the weakness to monsters and the straight-up defeat to nilfgaard.

the deck can put a lot of pressure if you play it properly, and can consistently get ~30 power with one card in round 3

due to bears it's not an autoloss NOW, it WILL be though after the bear nerf,

that 30 just got to 22 now.
for a deck that is hard countered by 2 factions, and that takes dedicated low tempo plays to get to that last round 22, that's simply not enough

basically:
the deck will autolose to the 2 best factions atm, and it won't outmuscle the rest decks like dwarves, spelldecks and etc.

 

[RickMelethron]

that 30 just got to 22 now. for a deck that is hard countered by 2 factions, and that takes dedicated low tempo plays to get to that last round 22, that's simply not enough

4x QG = 12
2x draig = 12
cerys = 6
brann = 3

i count 33

the deck will autolose to the 2 best factions atm,

it always has

and it won't outmuscle the rest decks like dwarves, spelldecks and etc

it always will, if you run the proper counters

 

[shroudb]

4x QG = 12
2x draig = 12
cerys = 6
brann = 3

i count 33



it always has



it always will, if you run the proper counters

so, that's 1 gold, 3 silvers and 4 bronzes, oh, and a hero power
for 33

yeah, it's bad.

you want to see a better trick?
brouver into els into yarpen:
that's 10 from yarpen +resiliency
another 3 from els
another 7 from saskia
another 5 from roach
another 4 from brouver

that's 1 gold and 3 silvers and the hero.

that's 29, with 10 resiliency, that ALSO thins your deck by 4, and doesn't take up 4 of your bronze slots

also, get real with the "counter" stuff, NG demolishes the deckl, and so does consume, you have 0 ways to counterplay them after the bear change (not that you had vs monster before the change, but at least you had a fighting chance vs NG)

there is a reason why QG were just a t2 deck that was barely represented in the upper ranks, and as pointed correctly by Noxious "tier 7 after the patch"

edit:
btw, i'm not sure if you know it, but Cerys is actually average, not terrible, but wasn't really run at all. so you shouldn't really count her since no one who knows how to play the deck would actually prefer her over another gold. Well, maybe now instead of RnR, but when neutrals and otehr faction golds are better than the "dedicated" gold for the deck, something is wrong with it.

and so, the "old" 35 becomes 27, which is, in fact a 23% power nerf, that's almost 1/4 of it's power.

i wouldn't call that "insignificant"

to put it into perspective, that's about the nerf of DBP going from 4 to -1 on average

 

[Hematomas]

I saw the stream last night, and I really agreed with the saying that a game should at first be fun for the players and that this ideal should be the cornerstone of every change done to a card.
While I can't say that I have done the amount of research that you guys at CD Projekt did, I can honestly say that this change is taking away parts of the fun in playing the Skellige faction.

Skellige is all about getting stronger as the rounds go... QG is one of those "main cards" that create deck comps. In my opinion, a card like this should have the matching "feeling" as other cards which are commonly used in that comp have. So, by taking this away the card not only loses his stats, but also the enjoyment of playing it.

A few words on balance: while I'm sure it was tested I just can't understand how a card that can be easily countered by every weather type card and by consumers ( who got buffed) and by NG get one of the biggest nerfs in the patch?

While I think the card can just remain as it is... maybe some of those suggestions will make more sense:

1) giving it a trio keyword instead of veteran - if at least 3 are on board then each of them gets a boost of +1 / +2 ( The proc can only occur once per card) - can be locked!
2) every time a round start, if at least three QG are in your graveyard strengthen each of them by 1 - can't be locked!

I really hope that you might consider changing it back in some sort of way in the future, but I guess that the best judge will just have to be time itself... (thanks in advance for hearing me out)
:smile:

 

[shroudb]

Another way to mitigrate the severe nerfs is to actually buff Donar tro the strength of the other spies.

Currently he is by FAR the worst faction specific spy:
fiend at 7 power +amazing ability
margarita, again, amazing ability
double lock
8 power+movement for SC

and then you have Donar... he had his strength buffed apparently, but his ability is really worth about 0 points, hell, in MOST cases it's detrimental to you since it helps the opponent with thinning his deck.

Imo, Donar should allow you to CHOOSE which bronze to steal.

this way you can actually steal a Vico medic to take back your QG, and this way it makes it unsafe for oppenents to mulligan their copy of a QG if you run operator back into their deck. As a note, Donar now BLOCKS ADC as well, which is actually a NERF to him for QG...

 

[DMaster2]

in addition, change Vico medic by adding:
when the ressed unit dies it returns to it's original graveyard.

You should've just said "delete vicovaro medic from the game". Because no one in his right mind would use it if the unit returned to your opponent's graveyard.

 

[shroudb]

You should've just said "delete vicovaro medic from the game". Because no one in his right mind would use it if the unit returned to your opponent's graveyard.

Because vico is terrible vs everything not SK right?

Vico is an excellent utility that ALSO doubles up as additional thinning/buffing, obliterating SK is just a "byproduct"

 

[Rammyp]

You should've just said "delete vicovaro medic from the game". Because no one in his right mind would use it if the unit returned to your opponent's graveyard.

You really think that stealing QG with 10-12 str in round 2-3 will be such a bad idea even if it returned to the opposing graveyard afterwards?

I still would rather they just keep the bear abitlity as is, instead of all these suggestions.

 

[PandaLin]

What if we buff the queen? Give her a 3 point timer? So everytime you revive 3 queensguard you get Cerys. 6 strength isn't that crazy and it has really good synergies with her guards. Would also work with the lore.

 

[DMaster2]

Because vico is terrible vs everything not SK right?

Vico is an excellent utility that ALSO doubles up as additional thinning/buffing, obliterating SK is just a "byproduct"

Vicovaro is good against SK, the mirror (rot tosser) and NR. It sucks against ST (especially control) and monsters. And in the NR and SK case, it's because it does steal stuff (QG and Reaver hunter). Honestly it would be quite hard to justify a spot in the deck with such a change.

 

[shroudb]

Vicovaro is good against SK, the mirror (rot tosser) and NR. It sucks against ST (especially control) and monsters. And in the NR and SK case, it's because it does steal stuff (QG and Reaver hunter). Honestly it would be quite hard to justify a spot in the deck with such a change.

What are you even talking about? Vicos would be good even if they were just limited to your own spies. Everything else is a bonus.

They are a far cry from a "tech" option. They are core cards that just HAPPENS to 100% singlehandedly counter 1 whole faction.

if you look at my.post history you would see that I'm a huge NG fan, and even still I think they a major redesign so as not to completly shut down SK.

to put it simply, imagine if bears HAPPENED to also have the text "spies can no longer be played at all" that's how crippling vicos are for the game.

a single bronze should NEVER counter a whole faction/archetype